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Mansions of Madness: Second Edition» Forums » General

Subject: Disappointed In The Time Limit rss

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Steve R Bullock
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I have been playing the first and easiest scenario on the MoM game app, and found it to be a helluva lot of fun!

My only complaint (and it is a major one) is that there is a built in time factor where the game practically kills the investigators for "taking too long" to solve the adventure.

I absolutely hate that.

What is the big deal if it takes me twice as long as to get through the mansion than the average player?

I am enjoying the experience, as well as having some problems fighting off the creatures as I explore the old building, and it takes time.

Some of us in the gaming world want to experience the game at a bit slower pace than you seem to think we need to be moving at, as well as getting our moneys worth... what's the big deal? Let us explore at out own pace!

FFG, instead of setting time factors to kill off the characters after "X amount of time", kill the time limitation on the app.
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William Aull
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The world is ending. It's not Final Fantasy 7 where that meteor hangs in the sky until you're finished breeding all of your chocobos and decide you wanna deal with it.

Time is of the essence!
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Tom Kassel
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If you need more time to complete the adventure, why not just take more than two actions per investigator? If three actions per phase it too easy, just could adjust to three every other phase or whatever.
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Peter Johnsson
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You should probably spoiler tag this, as I didn't know about the hard cap on time and that
Spoiler (click to reveal)
it could actually kill you
.
 
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T H
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It would be to easy without it. Also the world is ending, why do you expect the apocalypse to wait until you finish admiring a portrait? The great old ones don't care about you, they are going to do their thing whether you want them to stop or not.
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Baker Odom
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Much of the tension in this game comes from having to decide whether it's worth it to search that end table in the hallway or explore the next room. Can you risk it just barricading the door and ignoring that monster or must you go and fight it instead despite the fact that you're unarmed? If you could take as long as you wanted most of that tension wouldn't be there. A great and ancient evil is trying to come into the world and it will not wait for you to search through that flowerpot hoping to find a gun.

The first edition had this exact same mechanism except that you could tell when the game was nearing its end because it was in the form of a deck of cards.
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Richard A. Edwards
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vincentdante wrote:
It would be to easy without it.

This, I'd guess, is probably the main reason they have such time limits. Many cooperative games do. It's a race to complete whatever objective in a short time in order to win.

But I think there's a large number of gamers who enjoy cooperative games, especially very thematic games, as a shared story (not unlike an RPG) rather than consider them competitive endeavors where the goal is winning.

I can understand the original poster's desire to just experience the story and let it unfold at a player's own pace rather than rushing through just to "win".

I wonder if we won't see more cooperative games where you don't really win or lose, but rather experience the game cooperatively as a story. TIME Stories has a bit of this approach since you can "lose" but just try it again and again until you've experienced the whole story and then "win".

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Torben
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Okay, so this thread is confusing to me.

I don't have the new edition yet, but are you guys saying it comes with a realtime clock that limits the game? Or is it more like a "in-game" clock, e.g. number of turns, etc.?
 
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Johan Anglemark
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SirRoke wrote:
vincentdante wrote:
It would be to easy without it.

This, I'd guess, is probably the main reason they have such time limits. Many cooperative games do. It's a race to complete whatever objective in a short time in order to win.

But I think there's a large number of gamers who enjoy cooperative games, especially very thematic games, as a shared story (not unlike an RPG) rather than consider them competitive endeavors where the goal is winning.

I can understand the original poster's desire to just experience the story and let it unfold at a player's own pace rather than rushing through just to "win".

I wonder if we won't see more cooperative games where you don't really win or lose, but rather experience the game cooperatively as a story. TIME Stories has a bit of this approach since you can "lose" but just try it again and again until you've experienced the whole story and then "win".

If you don't want to play competitively, just kill every single monster when it appears and keep exploring. For the player who doesn't want to play the game as it was designed to be played, the opportunities to cheat are endless. The app believes whatever you tell it.
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Johan Anglemark
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Dienes wrote:
Okay, so this thread is confusing to me.

I don't have the new edition yet, but are you guys saying it comes with a realtime clock that limits the game? Or is more like a "in-game" clock, e.g. number of turns, etc.?

"In-game".
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James Hébert
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What if your game is interrupted and you need to "pause" it.... does the app even allow that?

Much as I love an awesome game, if there's something that comes up (like a child with a flat tire... or illness), the game's gotta be able to be put on hold.
 
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Torben
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jophan wrote:
Dienes wrote:
Okay, so this thread is confusing to me.

I don't have the new edition yet, but are you guys saying it comes with a realtime clock that limits the game? Or is more like a "in-game" clock, e.g. number of turns, etc.?

"In-game".


Phew, thanks
 
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Richard A. Edwards
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Dienes wrote:
Okay, so this thread is confusing to me.

I don't have the new edition yet, but are you guys saying it comes with a realtime clock that limits the game? Or is more like a "in-game" clock, e.g. number of turns, etc.?

Spoiler (click to reveal)
As the game goes on the events in the Mythos phase get nastier, going from nothing to tests that failing might injure you to automatic injuries in increasing number. And it might be that the appearance and type monsters increase too.

The end result is that the longer you play, the more likely the game will eventually crush you. There's no know time limit, no counter, it just gets harder and harder if you take too long.
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Donny Behne
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This may not be the game for you, then. The app pushes an agenda and forces you to make hard choices and skip aspects in order to finish in time. This isn't a game of exploration, it's a pressure cooker. If you want to explore more, just do the scenario again. The key points remain the same if the architecture changes.
 
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Roger Edwards
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jhebert wrote:
What if your game is interrupted and you need to "pause" it.... does the app even allow that?


It's a turn count, not real time. Stop for as long as you want. Exit the app and and come back to it. Just don't use the in-app Save Game as that's not working reliably (unless fixed in v1.03).
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T H
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Not realtime clock
 
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William Aull
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jhebert wrote:
What if your game is interrupted and you need to "pause" it.... does the app even allow that?

Much as I love an awesome game, if there's something that comes up (like a child with a flat tire... or illness), the game's gotta be able to be put on hold.


It's not a ticking clock, it's more of a particular amount of turns until the game ends.

If you go and fall asleep while playing, the game won't end while you're out.

It only really affects people who drag their feet and want to search every nook and cranny in every room--you'll definitely run out of gametime then.
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Mathue Faulk
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Nothing super spoilery outside of the current discussion, but just in case:
Spoiler (click to reveal)
It doesn't practically kill you. It eventually does kill you. My wife and I didn't understand the pacing of the game and we were taking our time initially. When the second alternate objective came up, we were confused how to achieve it and I think we started exploring for something that didn't exist. Needless to say, we played way too long, survived everything the game threw at us, and then the game ended and basically said that we were too slow and the world ended. I didn't actually have a problem with it, although I think it could be a little clearer on how to achieve the second objective.
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Steve R Bullock
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I realize the "WHY" for a time factor (build tension, keep the players on the edge of their seat), but I never gathered from the story text that the world was in danger of destruction in a short amount of time.

The story suggests (at the beginning) that the investigator had come to a dead end in his investigations. This implies he had been searching for at least a week or two for clues.
Now, he goes to the house and just has 30 minutes or so to solve the mystery or the world is destroyed?

How convenient.

Yes, I could "cheat" and take multiple turns, kill monsters easily, and in general do everything I hate doing to hustle through the game - but this defeats the purpose of playing the game honestly and enjoying it.

Well, maybe the game "isn't for me"... but I am not about to give it up.
I would like to think that other/future scenarios don't have that "hurry up or the world/mansion" will come crashing down around your head.

If every one of them has the exact same "rush-rush-rush" feeling, then I will truly be disappointed, and feel the game scenario developers really had a lack of imagination or were somewhat lazy.

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Enon Sci
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I severely disagree with the OP, and find it amusing that people both lament the replayability, and then equally lament the variables which can aid in achieving that.

In my first play through of this mission we did not get to the heart of the matter in time, and the heart of the matter came to us. We haven't replayed yet, but part of my excitement to try again is to see what happens if we get to the heart of the matter before the timer depletes.

We did win the scenario, but the unexpected shift added a layer of tension which we greatly enjoyed. It isn't like the timer is particularly short (our session was close to 4 hours!), or detrimental to achieving the win.

How often does a game have life and agency of its own? Things ARE happening, and this allows for the story to unfold in different ways depending on where people are at particular moments when they revisit the scenario (theoretically, at least).

volnon wrote:


If every one of them has the exact same "rush-rush-rush" feeling, then I will truly be disappointed, and feel the game scenario developers really had a lack of imagination or were somewhat lazy.



You're entitled to your opinion, but this strikes me as a gross distortion of what we experienced with the first scenario.

To lurkers that have yet to experience the game, I'd say this isn't a "rush rush rush" game -- at most, there is a timer that, once depleted, basically says "ok, you missed something, but now you can still complete the mission if you go HERE and examine this thing we're telling you to examine. Soonish" There is a sense of urgency, and the "timer" is never explicit (so I guess it could psych you into thinking you're on the knife's edge), but is a Lovecraft game supposed to be an easy coast through pastoral flowers?
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Steve S
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Most co-op or semi co-op games that I play have a built in timer of some kind that stops you taking it easy and forces you to push forward. I never played it but didn't MoM 1st edition have some kind of timer, every x number of turns a card was flipped over and the investigators had to have reached a certain goal etc?
Descent 2nd Ed (with or without Road to Legend)
Pathfinder Adventure Card Games
Legendary Marvel
Legendary Encounters
Eldritch Horror
Elder Signs
Pandemic

All of these games have a built in timer, I don't see how any of them would work without one, they would be far too easy.
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volnon wrote:
I realize the "WHY" for a time factor (build tension, keep the players on the edge of their seat), but I never gathered from the story text that the world was in danger of destruction in a short amount of time.

The story suggests (at the beginning) that the investigator had come to a dead end in his investigations. This implies he had been searching for at least a week or two for clues.
Now, he goes to the house and just has 30 minutes or so to solve the mystery or the world is destroyed?

How convenient.

Yes, I could "cheat" and take multiple turns, kill monsters easily, and in general do everything I hate doing to hustle through the game - but this defeats the purpose of playing the game honestly and enjoying it.

Well, maybe the game "isn't for me"... but I am not about to give it up.
I would like to think that other/future scenarios don't have that "hurry up or the world/mansion" will come crashing down around your head.

If every one of them has the exact same "rush-rush-rush" feeling, then I will truly be disappointed, and feel the game scenario developers really had a lack of imagination or were somewhat lazy.



Spoiler time - and I'm assuming you were exploring the first scenario for the first time.

Spoiler (click to reveal)

If you were taking your time and hitting every clue point, you would know some combination of the following:
1/ Other people are here (lots of cars in the driveway), and random cultists trying to kill you keep popping out of the woodwork.
2/ Tonight's the night (invitations, pictures on the wall, newspapers, all talking about how *tonight* is the night the stars have aligned.
3/ Something is definitely up - strange aquatic creatures attacking, the kitchen continually having power surges.
4/ The Butler called you *tonight*, and asked you to hurry over.

At some point, the game wants you to realize "we have to STOP what's going on". The Mythos event that triggers to the timer (that damages the investigators) is the final hammer to smack the investigators with this need to stop whatever's happening. Once the investigators burst into the ritual scene, the hammer isn't needed any more.
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Steve R Bullock
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All of us experience time passage in different ways.

To be fair, the first time I played the opening scenario, I was not aware of the time factor as much because I was flipping through the rule book so much I simply thought the reason the game ended on such an abrupt note was because of my distracted rule searching.

The second time I played it I noticed the way the game triggered "accelerated mansion destruction", but was still struggling with some of the rules and therefore considered it consequences of my either moving too slowly from continued scanning of the rules or perhaps I was playing improperly in some fashion.

The third and fourth time I pretty much had learned the rules and realized it was normal what was happening- the game simply had a built in time factor that made sure you only spent a certain amount of time solving the scenario.

As I stated, I will be disappointed if EVERY SCENARIO has the same feeling of haste and hurry. The way you feel about the first scenario is, of course, a matter of your own conditions.

As for me, I am simply stating my feelings after playing it multiple times and experiencing it under my own conditions.

You may see it as a "gross distortion", but I feel I have a valid viewpoint in hoping future scenarios show some variety and story pacing due to what I experienced in the first episode.

Right now I am going to go and play the scenario again and see if I have different feelings about the game after reading some of these amusing and informative comments.
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Scott Cantor
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volnon wrote:

As I stated, I will be disappointed if EVERY SCENARIO has the same feeling of haste and hurry.


Every single 1E scenario had a timer, it's built into the rules via cards. Almost all co-ops, including Eldritch and Arkham have timers.

In short, they're all going to have timers. Practically guaranteed.

I suppose it's possible they might develop a one-off that doesn't, but certainly not much.

Interestingly, this criticism applies very aptly to my view of Descent 2E, which pretty much felt like every quest was a race. For this kind of game, it's fine. For a dungeon crawl, I thought it sucked the enjoyment out.

In other words, I think maybe you want to look for a Lovecraft-themed crawl, but MOM isn't it.
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Just a warning, the long scenario also has a "timer" in the sense that
Spoiler (click to reveal)
it takes place over multiple days of investigating and interrogating the citizens of Innsmouth. Every day is X amount of turns and you will NOT be able to explore everything. It actually made the scenario very tense and I LOVED it, but just a heads up.
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