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Subject: 3rd Edition Where is the Buzz rss

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Jeffrey
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I am surprised that the 3rd edition is not getting more buzz.
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Chris
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Hard to have buzz when there is zero information available about it.
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Matthew Roskam
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It wasn't that long ago that Thunderstone Advanced came out... a lot of us invested heavily, and found no reprint support, and silence from AEG. Now they are going to reboot again? If they create more of a narrative (like Legendary, but more challenging), it might be worth it. I sure felt burned on Thunderstone Advanced though... I will be cautious.
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B C Z
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queerchameleon wrote:
I am surprised that the 3rd edition is not getting more buzz.


Fool me once...
Fool me twice...

Yeah
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Dicky P
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byronczimmer wrote:
queerchameleon wrote:
I am surprised that the 3rd edition is not getting more buzz.


Fool me once...
Fool me twice...

Yeah


Nicely put, though personally only partially fooled with version 2 as jumped ship half way through. Can't muster up any enthusiasm for yet another reboot.
 
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Team Ski
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I dunno why you guys think that Advance was somehow bungled. It turned out to be one of the best supported games ever when you consider just how many cards were created for the series. The game is a classic and all the better in epic mode.

-Ski
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Thomas King
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I understand people felt burned by the original switch from TS to TSA, because AEG didn't put enough time between them and tried to fool us into thinking it totally wasn't a 2nd edition. Even though they tried to make them compatible, they never were to gamers.

But give AEG some credit, they did it right this time. They gave TSA a good shelf life with several expansions, they let it all run out of print before moving forward, and are trying to improve the design some more instead of just an update.
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Martin Larouche
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Teamski wrote:
I dunno why you guys think that Advance was somehow bungled. It turned out to be one of the best supported games ever when you consider just how many cards were created for the series. The game is a classic and all the better in epic mode.

-Ski


The switch from 1.0 to "Advanced" was even more bungled, as you say, than with this recent announcement.

The last expansion to the original thunderstone came out and in it's rulebook, a "mention" that Thunderstone would "return" soon.

A mere month or two later, Thunderstone Advanced is announced. 6 months after the last expansion of the original, it's released. We barely had time to remove the shrink-wrap from the expansions, they scrapped the line...

But wait... they announce the old cards are going to be compatible with "Advance". Hurray!
... but then with the release of the game, we find out it isn't really. Some keywords have changed. Some type of cards don't exist anymore, making old ones that had mentions to those pointless. The art design and card layout changed completely, making the old ones weird at best to mix in.
... and then they release old cards from the original version in Advance expansions... updated and "fixed".

All this resulted is in having Advance boxes sit right next to the original boxes in stores, as the original had still new stuff when Advance came out and distributors still had copies, resulting in stores unable to sell the original.
Customers, as i personally witnessed twice (and many times here on BGG), were confused as heck as to which box to buy. Too many different boxes, some saying Advance others not... AEG probably noticed that too as they released "starter packs". But this confused customers even more, as "starter" is often associated with LCG and CCG, which this isn't.

At least it's been a couple of years (not just a few months) since Advance this time and it's going to be a clear relaunch, with a clear edition number "3" on it and not a simple "Advance" keyword that doesn't really mean anything for those that don't know the game.

Because of the way Advance came out, i stopped at the original. Never went into the second edition. I still play it once in a while. Zero intention of going again with Thunderstone 3, and little intention of going into another AEG card game.

Disclaimer: i failed in my intention with Mystic Vale. Though i'm going into Mystic Vale knowing full well it may suffer the Thunderstone treatment and get cancelled at any moment with a "better" game using the same mechanics coming out at the same time. Especially since Mystic Vale is a "prototype" of sorts of the card crafting system to see if it would catch on...

I could also talk a lot about how friggin' hard it was to get our hands on the original Thunderstone's promos to make the game complete. I managed to get the full set, but with lots of hardships. These promos were more than just weird one-offs. They were part of the game itself. Some included new types of foes, new heroes, new traps... Combined, all the promos they made could make up a full expansion box by themselves.

I'll casually look at what they are going to offer with Thunderstone 3, but don't plan on going in, just as i didn't go in with Advance. My hype level is close to zero.

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Jacob Schoberg
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Being fully invested in Advance, there'd have to be a pretty good reason for me to migrate to a new version.
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Jeffrey
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Well some of us totally missed out on TSA and to get it now I would have to sell my liver. So I am looking forward to it. I have heard nothing but praise on the game play.
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Scott Dornian
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queerchameleon wrote:
I am surprised that the 3rd edition is not getting more buzz.

Buzz: https://boardgamegeek.com/article/23444751
 
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Jim Jones
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emodiu5 wrote:
Being fully invested in Advance, there'd have to be a pretty good reason for me to migrate to a new version.


This is largely where I'm at. AEG didnt announce second edition was going out of print, they just let it trickle down to nothing. Which means I have a few big boxes for second edition but I'll never be able to fill the holes in my collection. I honestly cant see what third edition could do to make me interested other than (the very unlikely) 100% compatability.
 
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Sky Zero
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I don't get the hurt feelings sentiment when there are literally THOUSANDS of cards released for TA. Crack the game open and enjoy the endless variety that already exists. The new edition appears to be a different animal all together.
 
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Dustin Crenshaw
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Unless they get rid of monsters you kill going into your deck and clogging it up for no reason, this game will fail... again. There are a zillion deckbuilding options. And that completely killed it for everyone I played it with.
 
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Thomas King
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SeerMagic wrote:
Unless they get rid of monsters you kill going into your deck and clogging it up for no reason, this game will fail... again. There are a zillion deckbuilding options. And that completely killed it for everyone I played it with.

That was also one my big criticisms, but some one already confirmed, monsters will not go into your deck.
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Mark Blasco

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SeerMagic wrote:
Unless they get rid of monsters you kill going into your deck and clogging it up for no reason, this game will fail... again. There are a zillion deckbuilding options. And that completely killed it for everyone I played it with.


Just like Dominion, this is part of the design of the game. It prevents someone from running away with the game if they happen to have a few really good hands at the start, since as soon as they begin going for monsters, the strength of their hand diminishes. Considering you always have the option to prepare for the next turn, this never bothered me too much, but I can see how it could be annoying to some.

As for why there isn't a lot of buzz, and why people aren't getting super excited, there are a lot of us who invested a lot of money in the 1st or 2nd editions of Thunderstone (or both). It would be one thing if this was a single box game, but knowing that they are going to have many different expansions, I'm not going to drop several hundred dollars to get a game which is only slightly different than the game I already invested several hundred dollars into. I'd rather get a different game entirely.
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Thomas King
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markblasco wrote:
SeerMagic wrote:
Unless they get rid of monsters you kill going into your deck and clogging it up for no reason, this game will fail... again. There are a zillion deckbuilding options. And that completely killed it for everyone I played it with.


Just like Dominion, this is part of the design of the game. It prevents someone from running away with the game if they happen to have a few really good hands at the start, since as soon as they begin going for monsters, the strength of their hand diminishes. Considering you always have the option to prepare for the next turn, this never bothered me too much, but I can see how it could be annoying to some.

In my opinion, many deck builders have illustrated since Dominion and TS, you do not need such a lazy and unfun crutch if the game design is solid and properly balanced.
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Gabriel Miller
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My wallet is ready!
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Mark Blasco

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Montag451 wrote:
markblasco wrote:
SeerMagic wrote:
Unless they get rid of monsters you kill going into your deck and clogging it up for no reason, this game will fail... again. There are a zillion deckbuilding options. And that completely killed it for everyone I played it with.


Just like Dominion, this is part of the design of the game. It prevents someone from running away with the game if they happen to have a few really good hands at the start, since as soon as they begin going for monsters, the strength of their hand diminishes. Considering you always have the option to prepare for the next turn, this never bothered me too much, but I can see how it could be annoying to some.

In my opinion, many deck builders have illustrated since Dominion and TS, you do not need such a lazy and unfun crutch if the game design is solid and properly balanced.


That's fair, I understand why you feel that way. There are a bunch of other deck builders with a bunch of different ways to balance things out, and if this mechanic bugs you, than I can understand why you wouldn't enjoy the end stage of the game. I don't find it to be nearly as upsetting as you, and I like the fact that it naturally keeps someone from just taking off with the lead without anyone else having a chance to catch up.
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Chris
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And TS is the game that made most monsters worth gold so that they are not completely useless in your hand (unlike property in Dominion).
 
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Thomas King
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cbrua wrote:
And TS is the game that made most monsters worth gold so that they are not completely useless in your hand (unlike property in Dominion).

In my experience, gold loses value as the game moves on. Even if playing the normal way, where you can buy level 2-3 heroes, the game can still stall, and eventually you just don't want to buy any more items or spells because they too can slow down your deck. The fact that items also provide gold, it makes monsters having gold feel a bit redundant. Can't tell you how many times I had 10+ gold in hand, and nothing remotely worth that much available in the village.

The economy of TS was another reason it always felt like a work in progress to me. So many other games, even other deck builders, have such a tight economy, TS was too generous with gold that lost value towards the end of the game. It was Diablo 2 all over again, but in the wrong way.
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M S
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Montag451 wrote:
cbrua wrote:
And TS is the game that made most monsters worth gold so that they are not completely useless in your hand (unlike property in Dominion).

In my experience, gold loses value as the game moves on. Even if playing the normal way, where you can buy level 2-3 heroes, the game can still stall, and eventually you just don't want to buy any more items or spells because they too can slow down your deck. The fact that items also provide gold, it makes monsters having gold feel a bit redundant. Can't tell you how many times I had 10+ gold in hand, and nothing remotely worth that much available in the village.


The monsters that add something to combat, even if it's just light, are definitely the most valuable in these parts.
 
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Thomas King
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rogue148 wrote:

The monsters that add something to combat, even if it's just light, are definitely the most valuable in these parts.

For sure, those monsters never stick around for long before some one takes them out.
 
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Chris
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Montag451 wrote:
In my experience, gold loses value as the game moves on.

Yes, but that is the nature of the game and it is meant to be managed as part of playing the game. If you focus mainly on gold production you will fall behind on VP collecting. The beauty of having monsters worth gold is that people are willing to take them earlier in the game, which I find more interesting than the Dominion approach of nobody buying estates and duchies until the final rounds of the game.

Quote:
The economy of TS was another reason it always felt like a work in progress to me. So many other games, even other deck builders, have such a tight economy

Which ones? Definitely not Dominion, where you often haul out gobs of money and buys in the mid-late game and do not buy anything other than a Province because it will only slow your deck down. Ascension is even worse because the cards available to buy each round are limited.
 
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Martin Larouche
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Montag451 wrote:
cbrua wrote:
And TS is the game that made most monsters worth gold so that they are not completely useless in your hand (unlike property in Dominion).

In my experience, gold loses value as the game moves on. Even if playing the normal way, where you can buy level 2-3 heroes, the game can still stall, and eventually you just don't want to buy any more items or spells because they too can slow down your deck. The fact that items also provide gold, it makes monsters having gold feel a bit redundant. Can't tell you how many times I had 10+ gold in hand, and nothing remotely worth that much available in the village.

The economy of TS was another reason it always felt like a work in progress to me. So many other games, even other deck builders, have such a tight economy, TS was too generous with gold that lost value towards the end of the game. It was Diablo 2 all over again, but in the wrong way.


Just to be sure, you are talking about Advance?

Because in regular Thunderstone, it's very rare that you had too much money. The monsters that give money are not common.
The problem you are describing did not exist in the original, or was very rare, since if you had money, you had better equipment and therefore got more monsters... which reduced you amount of money.

It had another problem with "economy" and that was with XP. In many games, you had too much XP and you didn't want to spend it upgrading heroes because that meant a trip to the village instead and losing a few points fighting monsters... which gave you even more XP.
I played a few games where we came really close to not having any XP markers left in the box...
 
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