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Subject: Going Tribal rss

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Andre
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http://www.cnn.com/2016/08/16/us/milwaukee-county-sheriff-da...

The black police chief has won over Conservatives with his talk, he makes some valid points, and then gets down to the real conclusion:

"The actions were the manifestation of a population with no hope, no stake in the American dream that could provide advancement and purpose and pride of self."

Yes, I left the rest of his quote out, because I don't necessarily agree that the Democrats alone are responsible for either creating, or maintaning that lack of hope he describes above.

Much of the problems stem from the fact that much of the black population of this country is at or below the poverty level, and to some degree uneducated (as a percentage of their overall population, when compared to other races, namely Caucasians). Both parties, in my opinion, have failed to change that significantly in the past 50 years, since the Civil Rights movement began. Violence against cops is just one manifestation of that lack of hope. Sadly, it may get worse, before it gets better.
 
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jeremy cobert
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abadolato01 wrote:
Yes, I left the rest of his quote out, because I don't necessarily agree that the Democrats alone are responsible for either creating, or maintaining that lack of hope he describes above.


Well they had a black president and a veto proof house and senate for two years. Please tell me what they did to improve the black community during that time.

I will go ahead an wait for your answer.




abadolato01 wrote:
Much of the problems stem from the fact that much of the black population of this country is at or below the poverty level, and to some degree uneducated (as a percentage of their overall population, when compared to other races, namely Caucasians). Both parties, in my opinion, have failed to change that significantly in the past 50 years, since the Civil Rights movement began. Violence against cops is just one manifestation of that lack of hope. Sadly, it may get worse, before it gets better.


So the war on poverty began the Democrat party figured out they could get the black voter by making them dependent on handouts. When Democrat President Lyndon Baines Johnson who stated, “I’ll have those niggers voting Democratic for the next 200 years” he was not kidding.

But yeah, Republicans are to blame because they say mean things like keep your family in tact and don't rely on the government.
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Pontifex Maximus
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jeremycobert wrote:
abadolato01 wrote:
Yes, I left the rest of his quote out, because I don't necessarily agree that the Democrats alone are responsible for either creating, or maintaining that lack of hope he describes above.


Well they had a black president and a veto proof house and senate for two years. Please tell me what they did to improve the black community during that time.

I will go ahead an wait for your answer.




abadolato01 wrote:
Much of the problems stem from the fact that much of the black population of this country is at or below the poverty level, and to some degree uneducated (as a percentage of their overall population, when compared to other races, namely Caucasians). Both parties, in my opinion, have failed to change that significantly in the past 50 years, since the Civil Rights movement began. Violence against cops is just one manifestation of that lack of hope. Sadly, it may get worse, before it gets better.


So the war on poverty began the Democrat party figured out they could get the black voter by making them dependent on handouts. When Democrat President Lyndon Baines Johnson who stated, “I’ll have those niggers voting Democratic for the next 200 years” he was not kidding.

But yeah, Republicans are to blame because they say mean things like keep your family in tact and don't rely on the government.


You miss out the part about doing their best to suppress their vote

The one in New Jersey in 1981 was so egregious the RNC is still operating under a consent decree stopping them from similar activities

http://articles.latimes.com/2013/jan/14/news/la-pn-supreme-c...

The usually right wing memes that don't survive the encounter with actual facts. Quel supris
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Andre
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Kumitedad wrote:
jeremycobert wrote:
abadolato01 wrote:
Yes, I left the rest of his quote out, because I don't necessarily agree that the Democrats alone are responsible for either creating, or maintaining that lack of hope he describes above.


Well they had a black president and a veto proof house and senate for two years. Please tell me what they did to improve the black community during that time.

I will go ahead an wait for your answer.

Why do you singly focus on the two years when this was the case, as if ONLY this black president is to blame for the problem? It appears you are singling out the BLACK president, because he is BLACK, the problem has not gotten better in 50 years, why do you need to single out the BLACK president as the sole cause?




abadolato01 wrote:
Much of the problems stem from the fact that much of the black population of this country is at or below the poverty level, and to some degree uneducated (as a percentage of their overall population, when compared to other races, namely Caucasians). Both parties, in my opinion, have failed to change that significantly in the past 50 years, since the Civil Rights movement began. Violence against cops is just one manifestation of that lack of hope. Sadly, it may get worse, before it gets better.


So the war on poverty began the Democrat party figured out they could get the black voter by making them dependent on handouts. When Democrat President Lyndon Baines Johnson who stated, “I’ll have those niggers voting Democratic for the next 200 years” he was not kidding.

But yeah, Republicans are to blame because they say mean things like keep your family in tact and don't rely on the government.


You miss out the part about doing their best to suppress their vote

The one in New Jersey in 1981 was so egregious the RNC is still operating under a consent decree stopping them from similar activities

http://articles.latimes.com/2013/jan/14/news/la-pn-supreme-c...

The usually right wing memes that don't survive the encounter with actual facts. Quel supris


Why do you singly focus on the two years when this was the case, as if ONLY this black president is to blame for the problem? It appears you are singling out the BLACK president, because he is BLACK, the problem has not gotten better in 50 years, why do you need to single out the BLACK president as the sole cause?

Keeping families intact can be largley impacted by their financial ability to do just that.

And supress the vote?? Democrats would be the least likely to surpress the black vote, the hard reality is, if they come to the polls, the Democrats usually win.
 
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Christopher Yaure
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jeremycobert wrote:


Well they had a black president and a veto proof house and senate for two years. Please tell me what they did to improve the black community during that time.

I will go ahead an wait for your answer.



Obviously you didn't mean "veto proof", but I get what you meant. So, for starters, Obamacare.

Quote:
In 2014, not only did the share of whites without insurance fall; the share of blacks and Asian Americans fell by more. The difference between whites and Hispanics shrank, from 14 percentage points to 11.8 percentage points.

....

The improvement was particularly striking for children: Last year, blacks 18 and younger were no more likely to be uninsured than whites.


https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2015-12-17/obamacare...
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Sam I am
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Any one party in power for too long is dangerous. Texas for example, although their economy is great their policies are borderline theocratic.

So yes I think it's time for the R to run Mil. for a while to shake the entrenched graft out of the trees. In the short term the city will turn around but in 100 years... same but slightly different shit in a different century.
 
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jeremy cobert
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actuaryesquire wrote:
Obviously you didn't mean "veto proof", but I get what you meant. So, for starters, Obamacare.

Quote:
In 2014, not only did the share of whites without insurance fall; the share of blacks and Asian Americans fell by more. The difference between whites and Hispanics shrank, from 14 percentage points to 11.8 percentage points.

....

The improvement was particularly striking for children: Last year, blacks 18 and younger were no more likely to be uninsured than whites.


https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2015-12-17/obamacare...


Um.. So a lot of white people lost their insurance and brought the % closer, and that somehow helped black families ? wow, ok.

Blacks are still 55 percent more likely to be without health insurance than Whites according to the Obamacare website.. but dont let that slow your roll.

Quote:
Based on the August, 2014 data, children enrolled in the Medicaid program and CHIP make up nearly 55% of total Medicaid and CHIP program enrollment. you can apply for Medicaid and CHIP through the marketplace.


http://obamacarefacts.com/obamacare-facts/

Black incarceration rates: all time high
Blacks on welfare: all time high
Blacks without fathers in the home: all time high
Black out of the work force: all time high.
Black dropping out of school: all time high

If this is how you help, please stop helping !
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Christopher Yaure
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Jeremy -

1. As I quoted, the percentage of whites wthout insurance fell. Yes, some people lost insurance, and that is not good, but overall the percentage of both whites and African American with insurance increased. It increased more for African Americans.

2. Yes, African Americans are significntly less likely than whites to have health insurance. This is a bad thing. As described in the article, that is largely due to (Republican) governors and legislatures that declined to allow residents of their states to benefit from Obamacare.

3. As for your other crap, I'll respond to the first one - incarceration rates for African Americans are down. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/02/10/almos...

If you actually want to discuss the substance of any of your other "points", post a link. If you just want to keep posting fiction, go for it.
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jeremy cobert
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actuaryesquire wrote:
incarceration rates for African Americans are down.


really ? That seems counter intuitive to every other report

http://abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/story?id=5009270&page=1

http://www.commondreams.org/views/2015/06/02/40-reasons-our-...

http://www.naacp.org/pages/criminal-justice-fact-sheet

Oh , its an election year where the wife of the guy who help put these men in jail with his policies is running for office, I get it now.
 
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Andre
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jeremycobert wrote:
actuaryesquire wrote:
incarceration rates for African Americans are down.


really ? That seems counter intuitive to every other report

http://abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/story?id=5009270&page=1

http://www.commondreams.org/views/2015/06/02/40-reasons-our-...

http://www.naacp.org/pages/criminal-justice-fact-sheet

Oh , its an election year where the wife of the guy who help put these men in jail with his policies is running for office, I get it now.


You seem to point to Clinton as the sole culprit for jail overcrowding...I always love the way Pubs point to any Democrat they can as the root cause of the evil they see. I am curious what you think Trump would do, to reverse or aid the black peoples plight? Lyndon Johnson's War on Poverty, may not have been a success, but I would not flag the attempt to make things better. Stop playing the blame game by pointing a finger to a single Party, and start proposing solutions that might get them out of their plight....realistic ones. Since the Civil Rights Movement there have been at least 5 Republican presidents, did they have nothing to do with where we stand today?? Your head is in the sand, when you point solely to Democrats as the cause of their plight, and it really makes you look a bit foolish.
 
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James King
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What Did Jeremy Cobert Mean To Convey By Naming This Thread "Going Tribal"?


jeremycobert wrote:
abadolato01 wrote:
Yes, I left the rest of his quote out, because I don't necessarily agree that the Democrats alone are responsible for either creating, or maintaining that lack of hope he describes above.

Well they had a black president and a veto proof house and senate for two years. Please tell me what they did to improve the black community during that time.

I will go ahead an wait for your answer.

Since the obstructionism plot devised by the Republican leaders on the night of January 20, 2009 (Obama's first Innauguration) was in full swing from Day 2 of the Obama/Biden administration onward, neither the U.S. House of Representatives nor the U.S. Senate were ever "veto-proof".


jeremycobert wrote:
abadolato01 wrote:
Much of the problems stem from the fact that much of the black population of this country is at or below the poverty level, and to some degree uneducated (as a percentage of their overall population, when compared to other races, namely Caucasians). Both parties, in my opinion, have failed to change that significantly in the past 50 years, since the Civil Rights movement began. Violence against cops is just one manifestation of that lack of hope. Sadly, it may get worse, before it gets better.

So the war on poverty began the Democrat party figured out they could get the black voter by making them dependent on handouts.

Actually, it was Republicans like then Congressman George H.W. Bush who advocated for draconian qualifying conditions for welfare that made it more difficult for intact low-income families to qualify. But then again, we're also talking about the same Congressman George H.W. Bush who as a Congressional candidate had campaigned against the 1964 Civil Rights Act.


jeremycobert wrote:
When Democrat President Lyndon Baines Johnson who stated, “I’ll have those niggers voting Democratic for the next 200 years” he was not kidding.

Ho-hum! The source of that alleged quote is right-wing author Robert Kessler's book "Inside the White House". Kessler alleged that that quote came from a secondary source, an unnamed attendant on a plane that LBJ was riding on along with other unnamed governors aboard as well. Kessler had no other attributable or reputable source with whom to corroborate, confirm, verify, and/or back up that claim.

So, you'll just have to somehow forgive Mr. Kessler for his vaingloriously futile exercise in Wishful History.


jeremycobert wrote:
But yeah, Republicans are to blame because they say mean things like keep your family intact and don't rely on the government.

LOL! If only such were the case, your comments wouldn't ring so cringingly naive or disingenuously disinformative. shake


By the way, given your thread-initiating post's content, didn't you for one moment consider how your choice of thread title -- "Going Tribal" -- might be perceived as being racist?


 
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James King
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Republicans' All Too Eager Complicity In Jailing African Americans

abadolato01 wrote:
jeremycobert wrote:
actuaryesquire wrote:
incarceration rates for African Americans are down.


really ? That seems counter intuitive to every other report

http://abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/story?id=5009270&page=1

http://www.commondreams.org/views/2015/06/02/40-reasons-our-...

http://www.naacp.org/pages/criminal-justice-fact-sheet

Oh , its an election year where the wife of the guy who help put these men in jail with his policies is running for office, I get it now.


You seem to point to Clinton as the sole culprit for jail overcrowding...I always love the way Pubs point to any Democrat they can as the root cause of the evil they see. I am curious what you think Trump would do, to reverse or aid the black peoples plight? Lyndon Johnson's War on Poverty, may not have been a success, but I would not flag the attempt to make things better. Stop playing the blame game by pointing a finger to a single Party, and start proposing solutions that might get them out of their plight....realistic ones. Since the Civil Rights Movement there have been at least 5 Republican presidents, did they have nothing to do with where we stand today?? Your head is in the sand, when you point solely to Democrats as the cause of their plight, and it really makes you look a bit foolish.

The Republican Party has been in the back pockets of the lobbyists and donor beneficiaries of America's Prison-Industrial Complex for so long that it's unrealistic to expect the GOP to genuinely consider reversing course and making any meaningfully drastic changes. After all, given all their efforts to place more legal hurdles in the paths of people of color to be able to vote, it's more than apparent that Republicans most definitely would not want more people of color out of prison and back on the voting rolls.

Here's why.


> Excerpt from the December 1998 Atlantic magazine news story by Eric Schlosser entitled:

The Prison-Industrial Complex
Correctional officials see danger in prison overcrowding. Others see opportunity. The nearly two million Americans behind bars —-the majority of them nonviolent offenders -— mean jobs for depressed regions and windfalls for profiteers.



The United States now (as of December 1998) imprisons more people than any other country in the world —— perhaps half a million more than Communist China. The American inmate population has grown so large that it is difficult to comprehend: Imagine the combined populations of Atlanta, St. Louis, Pittsburgh, Des Moines, and Miami behind bars.



Marc Mauer

"We have embarked on a great social experiment," says Marc Mauer, the author of the upcoming book "The Race to Incarcerate". "No other society in human history has ever imprisoned so many of its own citizens for the purpose of crime control."




The prison boom in the United States is a recent phenomenon. Throughout the first three quarters of this century the nation's incarceration rate remained relatively stable, at about 110 prison inmates for every 100,000 people. In the mid-1970s the rate began to climb, doubling in the 1980s and then again in the 1990s. The rate is now 445 per 100,000; among adult men it is about 1,100 per 100,000. During the past two decades, roughly a thousand new prisons and jails have been built in the United States. Nevertheless, America's prisons are more overcrowded now than when the building spree began, and the inmate population continues to increase by 50,000 to 80,000 people a year.

The economist and legal scholar Michael K. Block, who believes that American sentencing policies are still not harsh enough, offers a straightforward explanation for why the United States has lately incarcerated so many people: "There are too many prisoners because there are too many criminals committing too many crimes."....

On January 17, 1961, President Dwight D. Eisenhower used his farewell address to issue a warning, as the United States continued its cold war with the Soviet Union. "In the councils of government," Eisenhower said, "we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex." Eisenhower had grown concerned about this new threat to democracy during the 1960 campaign, when fears of a "missile gap" with the Soviet Union were whipped up by politicians, the press, and defense contractors hoping for increased military spending. Eisenhower knew that no missile gap existed and that fear of one might lead to a costly, unnecessary response. "The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist," Eisenhower warned. "We should take nothing for granted."





Three decades after the war on crime began, the United States has developed a Prison-Industrial Complex -— a set of bureaucratic, political, and economic interests that encourage increased spending on imprisonment, regardless of the actual need. The Prison-Industrial Complex is not a conspiracy, guiding the nation's criminal-justice policy behind closed doors. It is a confluence of special interests that has given prison construction in the United States a seemingly unstoppable momentum. It is composed of politicians, both liberal and conservative, who have used the fear of crime to gain votes; impoverished rural areas where prisons have become a cornerstone of economic development; private companies that regard the roughly $35 billion spent each year on corrections not as a burden on American taxpayers but as a lucrative market; and government officials whose fiefdoms have expanded along with the inmate population.

Since 1991, the rate of violent crime in the United States has fallen by about 20% while the number of people in prison or jail has risen by 50%.



Steven R. Donziger

The prison boom has its own inexorable logic. Steven R. Donziger, a young attorney who headed the National Criminal Justice Commission in 1996, explains the thinking: "If crime is going up, then we need to build more prisons; and if crime is going down, it's because we built more prisons -— and building even more prisons will therefore drive crime down even lower."

The raw material of the Prison-Industrial Complex is its inmates: the poor, the homeless, and the mentally ill; drug dealers, drug addicts, alcoholics, and a wide assortment of violent sociopaths. About 70% of the prison inmates in the United States are illiterate. Perhaps 200,000 of the country's inmates suffer from a serious mental illness. A generation ago such people were handled primarily by the mental-health, not the criminal-justice, system. Sixty to 80% of the American inmate population has a history of substance abuse. Meanwhile, the number of drug-treatment slots in American prisons has declined by more than half since 1993. Drug treatment is now available to just one in ten of the inmates who need it.

Among those arrested for violent crimes, the proportion who are African-American men has changed little over the past twenty years. Among those arrested for drug crimes, the proportion who are African-American men has tripled. Although the prevalence of illegal drug use among white men is approximately the same as that among black men, black men are five times as likely to be arrested for a drug offense. As a result, about half the inmates in the United States are African-American. One out of every fourteen black men is now in prison or jail. One out of every four black men is likely to be imprisoned at some point during his lifetime. The number of women sentenced to a year or more of prison has grown twelvefold since 1970. Of the 80,000 women now imprisoned, about 70% are nonviolent offenders. About 75% have children....

The Prison-Industrial Complex is not only a set of interest groups and institutions. It is also a state of mind. The lure of big money is corrupting the nation's criminal-justice system, replacing notions of public service with a drive for higher profits. The eagerness of elected officials to pass "tough-on-crime" legislation—combined with their unwillingness to disclose the true costs of these laws —— has encouraged all sorts of financial improprieties. The inner workings of the Prison-Industrial Complex can be observed in the state of New York, where the prison boom started, transforming the economy of an entire region; in Texas and Tennessee, where private prison companies have thrived; and in California, where the correctional trends of the past two decades have converged and reached extremes. In the realm of psychology, a complex is an overreaction to some perceived threat. Eisenhower no doubt had that meaning in mind when, during his farewell address, he urged the nation to resist "a recurring temptation to feel that some spectacular and costly action could become the miraculous solution to all current difficulties."

The origins of the Prison-Industrial Complex can be dated to January of 1973. Senator Barry Goldwater had used the fear of crime to attract white middle-class voters a decade earlier, and Richard Nixon had revived the theme during the 1968 presidential campaign, but little that was concrete emerged from their demands for law and order. On the contrary, Congress voted decisively in 1970 to eliminate almost all federal mandatory-minimum sentences for drug offenders. Leading members of both political parties applauded the move. Mainstream opinion considered drug addiction to be largely a public-health problem, not an issue for the criminal courts.

The Federal Bureau of Prisons was preparing to close large penitentiaries in Georgia, Kansas, and Washington. From 1963 to 1972 the number of inmates in California had declined by more than a fourth, despite the state's growing population. The number of inmates in New York had fallen to its lowest level since at least 1950. Prisons were widely viewed as a barbaric and ineffective means of controlling deviant behavior. Then, on January 3, 1973, Nelson Rockefeller, the governor of New York, gave a State of the State address demanding that every illegal-drug dealer be punished with a mandatory prison sentence of life without parole.



Governor Nelson Rockefeller

Rockefeller was a liberal Republican who for a dozen years had governed New York with policies more closely resembling those of Franklin Delano Roosevelt than those of Ronald Reagan. He had been booed at the 1964 Republican Convention by conservative delegates; he still harbored grand political ambitions; and President Nixon would be ineligible for a third term in 1976. Rockefeller demonstrated his newfound commitment to law and order in 1971, when he crushed the Attica prison uprising. By proposing the harshest drug laws in the United States, he took the lead on an issue that would soon dominate the nation's political agenda. In his State of the State address, Gov. Rockefeller argued not only that all drug dealers should be imprisoned for life but also that plea-bargaining should be forbidden in such cases and that even juvenile offenders should receive life sentences.

The Rockefeller drug laws, enacted a few months later by the state legislature, were somewhat less draconian: the penalty for possessing four ounces of an illegal drug, or for selling two ounces, was a mandatory prison term of fifteen years to life. The legislation also included a provision that established a mandatory prison sentence for many second felony convictions, regardless of the crime or its circumstances. Rockefeller proudly declared that his state had enacted "the toughest anti-drug program in the country." Other states eventually followed New York's example, enacting strict mandatory-minimum sentences for drug offenses. A liberal Democrat, Speaker of the House Tip O'Neill, led the campaign to revive federal mandatory minimums, which were incorporated in the 1986 Anti-Drug Abuse Act. Nelson Rockefeller had set in motion a profound shift in American sentencing policy, but he never had to deal with the consequences. Nineteen months after the passage of his drug laws Rockefeller became Vice President of the United States.



Governor Mario Cuomo

When Mario Cuomo was first elected governor of New York, in 1982, he confronted some difficult choices. The state government was in a precarious fiscal condition, the inmate population had more than doubled since the passage of the Rockefeller drug laws, and the prison system had grown dangerously overcrowded. A week after Cuomo took office, inmates rioted at Sing Sing, an aging prison in Ossining. Cuomo was an old-fashioned liberal who opposed mandatory-minimum drug sentences. But the national mood seemed to be calling for harsher drug laws, not sympathy for drug addicts. President Reagan had just launched the War on Drugs; it was an inauspicious moment to buck the tide.

Unable to repeal the Rockefeller drug laws, Cuomo decided to build more prisons. The rhetoric of the drug war, however, was proving more popular than the financial reality. In 1981 New York's voters had defeated a $500 million bond issue for new prison construction. Cuomo searched for an alternate source of financing, and decided to use the state's Urban Development Corporation to build prisons. The corporation was a public agency that had been created in 1968 to build housing for the poor. Despite strong opposition from upstate Republicans, among others, it had been legislated into existence on the day of Martin Luther King Jr.'s funeral, to honor his legacy. The corporation was an attractive means of financing prison construction for one simple reason: it had the authority to issue state bonds without gaining approval from the voters....

Since 1980, spending on corrections at the local, state, and federal levels has increased about five-fold. What was once a niche business for a handful of companies has become a multi-billion-dollar industry with its own trade shows and conventions, its own Web sites, mail-order catalogs, and direct-marketing campaigns. The Prison-Industrial Complex now includes some of the nation's largest architecture and construction firms, Wall Street investment banks that handle prison bond issues and invest in private prisons, plumbing-supply companies, food-service companies, health-care companies, companies that sell everything from bullet-resistant security cameras to padded cells available in a "vast color selection."....

As the prison industry has grown, it has assumed many of the attributes long associated with the defense industry. The line between the public interest and private interests has blurred. In much the same way that retired admirals and generals have long found employment with defense contractors, correctional officials are now leaving the public sector for jobs with firms that supply the prison industry. These career opportunities did not exist a generation ago. Fundamental choices about public safety, employee training, and the denial of personal freedoms are increasingly being made with an eye to the bottom line....

Private prison companies are the most obvious, the most controversial, and the fastest-growing segment of the Prison-Industrial Complex. The idea of private prisons was greeted with enthusiasm during the Reagan and Bush Administrations; it fit perfectly with a belief in small government and the privatization of public services. The Clinton Administration, however, has done far more than its Republican predecessors to legitimize private prisons. It has encouraged the Justice Department to place illegal aliens and minimum-security inmates in private correctional facilities, as part of a drive to reduce the federal work force. The rationale for private prisons is that government monopolies such as old-fashioned departments of corrections are inherently wasteful and inefficient, and the private sector, through competition for contracts, can provide much better service at a much lower cost. The privatization of prisons is often described as a "win-win" outcome. A private-prison company generally operates a facility for a government agency, or builds and operates its own facility. The nation's private prisons accepted their first inmates in the mid-1980s. Today at least 27 states make use of private prisons, and approximately 90,000 inmates are being held in prisons run for profit.....

The economics of the private-prison industry are in many respects similar to those of the lodging industry. An inmate at a private prison is like a guest at a hotel -- a guest whose bill is being paid and whose check-out date is set by someone else. A hotel has a strong economic incentive to book every available room and encourage every guest to stay as long as possible. A private prison has exactly the same incentive. The labor costs constitute the bulk of operating costs for both kinds of accommodation. The higher the occupancy rate, the higher the profit margin. Although it might seem unlikely that a private prison would ever try to keep an inmate longer than was necessary for justice to be served, New York State's experience with the "fee system" during the nineteenth century suggests that the temptation to do so is hard to resist.

Under the fee system, local sheriffs charged inmates for their stay in jail. A 1902 report by the Correctional Association of New York harshly criticized this system, warning that judges might be inclined to "sentence a man to jail where he may be a source of revenue to a friendly sheriff." Whenever the fee system was abolished in a New York county, the inmate population dropped—by as much as half. Last year a Prudential Securities report on private prisons described some of the potential risks for the industry: a falling crime rate, shorter prison sentences, a move toward alternative sentences, and changes in the nation's drug laws. Nonetheless, the report concluded that "the industry appears to have excellent prospects."

Private-prison companies can often build prisons faster and at lower cost than state agencies, owing to fewer bureaucratic delays and less red tape. And new prisons tend to be much less expensive to operate than the old prisons still used in many states. But most of the savings that private-prison companies offer are derived from the use of nonunion workers. Labor represents 60 to 80% of the operating costs at a prison. Although private-prison companies are now moving into northern states and even signing agreements with some labor unions, the overwhelming majority of private-prison cells are in southern and southwestern states hostile to unions. Correctional officers in these private prisons usually earn lower wages than officers employed by state governments, while receiving fewer benefits and no pension. Some private-prison companies offer their uniformed staff stock options as a retirement plan; the long-term value of the stock is uncertain. The sort of cost-cutting imposed on correctional officers does not extend to managers and administrators. They usually earn much more than their counterparts in the public sector —— a fact that greatly increases the potential for conflicts of interest and official corruption....

The Corrections Corporation of America (CCA) is the nation's largest private-prison company; it recently participated in a buyout of the U.S. Corrections Corporation, thereby obtaining several thousand additional inmates. CCA was founded in 1983 by Thomas W. Beasley and Doctor R. Crants, Nashville businessmen with little previous experience in corrections.



Thomas W. Beasley

Beasley, a former chairman of the Tennessee Republican Party, later told Inc. magazine his strategy for promoting the concept of private prisons: "You just sell it like you were selling cars, or real estate, or hamburgers."

Beasley and Crants recruited a former director of the Virginia Department of Corrections to help run the company. In 1984, The Corrections Corporation of America (CCA) accepted its first Texas inmates, before it had a completed facility in that state. The inmates were housed in rented motel rooms; a number of them pushed the air-conditioning units out of the wall and escaped. A year later Beasley approached his good friend Lamar Alexander, the governor of Tennessee, with an extraordinary proposal: CCA would buy the state's entire prison system for $250 million. Alexander supported the idea, saying, "We don't need to be afraid in America of people who want to make a profit."

His wife, Honey, and the speaker of the Tennessee House, Ned McWherter, were among CCA's early investors; between them the two had owned 1.5% of CCA's stock; they sold their shares to avoid any perceived conflict of interest. Nevertheless, the CCA plan was blocked by the Democratic majority in the legislature.

The Corrections Corporation of America (CCA) expanded nationwide over the next decade, winning contracts to house more than 40,000 inmates and assembling the sixth largest prison system in the United States; but it never lost the desire to take over all the prisons in Tennessee. In order to achieve that goal, CCA executives established personal and financial links with figures in both political parties. During the spring of last year CCA's allies in the Tennessee legislature began once again to push for privatization. Crants said that letting CCA run the prisons would save the state up to $100 million a year; he did not specify how these dramatic savings would be achieved. George Zoley, the head of Wackenhut Corrections, argued that handing over the Tennessee prison system to a single company would simply turn a state monopoly into a private one. Wackenhut employed the law firm of former Republican U.S. Senator Howard Baker to lobby on its behalf, seeking a piece of the action.



U.S. Senator Howard Baker

By February of this year (1998), a compromise of sorts had emerged in Tennessee. New legislation proposed shifting as much as 70% of the state's inmate population to the private sector; The Corrections Corporation of America (CCA) and Wackenhut would both get a chance to bid for prison contracts. The new privatization bill seemed a sure thing. It was never put before the legislature for a vote, however. On April 20, 1998, CCA announced plans for a corporate restructuring so complex in its details that many Wall Street analysts began to wonder about the company's financial health. The price of CCA stock —— which in recent years had been one of the nation's top performers—began to plummet, declining in value by 25% over the next several days. At the annual CCA shareholders meeting, last May, Crants compared Wall Street investors to "wildebeests" stampeding out of fear, and blamed the stock's plunge on a single broker who had sold 640,000 shares.

Doctor R. Crants neglected to tell CCA shareholders a crucial bit of information: He himself had sold 200,000 shares of CCA stock just weeks before the announcement that sent its value tumbling. By selling his stock on March 2, Crants had avoided a loss of more than $2,500,000.00 (2.5 million). When asked recently to explain his Corrections Corporation of America (CCA) financial dealings, Crants declined to comment. The timing and the size of that stock transaction are likely to be of interest to the attorneys who have filed more than half a dozen lawsuits on behalf of CCA shareholders....

Although conservatives have long worried about the loss of American sovereignty to international agencies such as the United Nations and the World Bank, the globalization of private-prison companies has thus far eluded criticism. A British private-prison company, Securicor, operates two facilities in Florida. Wackenhut Corrections is now under contract to operate Doncaster prison, in England; three prisons in Australia; and a prison in Scotland. It is actively seeking prison contracts in South Africa. CCA has received a good deal of publicity lately, but few of the articles about it have mentioned that the largest shareholder of America's largest private-prison company is Sodexho Alliance —— a food-service conglomerate whose corporate headquarters are in Paris.


_________________________________________________



A lot more follows in the complete article at: http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/1998/12/the-pris...


The Republican Party has for far too long been in the back pockets of the Prison-Industrial Complex which lobbies Republicans in Congress and state legislatures to toughen drug laws in order to keep their for-profit prison cells filled and keep up a steady supply of prisoners to fill cells for new prisons under construction.



U.S. Rep. Bill McCollum

Indeed, from the 1981 through 2001, Florida's own Republican U.S. Rep. Bill McCollum had been the leading Republican advocate for converting U.S. prisons into factories to produce private-sector goods to compete with goods produced by U.S. factories. In many cases, this competition funded by prison slave labor paid extremely-low wages negatively impacted U.S. factories employing law-abiding workers.


And although the proverbial handwriting has been on the prison wall for a few decades already, it continues to be ignored.









One of the most ironic news stories I've ever seen before was about how, in the wake of factories shutting down in the Midwest during the mid- to late 1990s after the onset of NAFTA (as the once Factory Belt transformed into the Rust Belt), the Prison Industrial Complex sprang up in the wake of those factory shutdowns. At the same time, some long-term-unemployed folks did manage to get jobs with the new for-profits prisons while other longer-term-unemployed folks got into setting up meth labs.

So, imagine the irony of the former factory worker-turned-prison employee who, as he escorted a prisoner to his cell, finally realized while escorting him that the prisoner had been one of his former fellow factory co-workers.







 
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Andre
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ShreveportLAGamer wrote:


jeremycobert wrote:
abadolato01 wrote:
Yes, I left the rest of his quote out, because I don't necessarily agree that the Democrats alone are responsible for either creating, or maintaining that lack of hope he describes above.

Well they had a black president and a veto proof house and senate for two years. Please tell me what they did to improve the black community during that time.

I will go ahead an wait for your answer.

Since the obstructionism plot devised by the Republican leaders on the night of January 20, 2009 (Obama's first Innauguration) was in full swing from Day 2 of the Obama/Biden administration onward, neither the U.S. House of Representatives nor the U.S. Senate were ever "veto-proof".


jeremycobert wrote:
abadolato01 wrote:
Much of the problems stem from the fact that much of the black population of this country is at or below the poverty level, and to some degree uneducated (as a percentage of their overall population, when compared to other races, namely Caucasians). Both parties, in my opinion, have failed to change that significantly in the past 50 years, since the Civil Rights movement began. Violence against cops is just one manifestation of that lack of hope. Sadly, it may get worse, before it gets better.

So the war on poverty began the Democrat party figured out they could get the black voter by making them dependent on handouts.

Actually, it was Republicans like then Congressman George H.W. Bush who advocated for draconian qualifying conditions for welfare that made it more difficult for intact low-income families to qualify. But then again, we're also talking about the same Congressman George H.W. Bush who as a Congressional candidate had campaigned against the 1964 Civil Rights Act.


jeremycobert wrote:
When Democrat President Lyndon Baines Johnson who stated, “I’ll have those niggers voting Democratic for the next 200 years” he was not kidding.

Ho-hum! The source of that alleged quote is right-wing author Robert Kessler's book "Inside the White House". Kessler alleged that that quote came from a secondary source, an unnamed attendant on a plane that LBJ was riding on along with other unnamed governors aboard as well. Kessler had no other attributable or reputable source with whom to corroborate, confirm, verify, and/or back up that claim.

So, you'll just have to somehow forgive Mr. Kessler for his vaingloriously futile exercise in Wishful History.


jeremycobert wrote:
But yeah, Republicans are to blame because they say mean things like keep your family intact and don't rely on the government.

LOL! If only such were the case, your comments wouldn't ring so cringingly naive or disingenuously disinformative. shake


By the way, given your thread-initiating post's content, didn't you for one moment consider how your choice of thread title -- "Going Tribal" -- might be perceived as being racist?




I was the originator of this thread, and I simply put the "Going Tribal" title because the BLACK police chief used the term, it had nothing to do with racism.
 
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Christopher Yaure
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jeremycobert wrote:
actuaryesquire wrote:
incarceration rates for African Americans are down.


really ? That seems counter intuitive to every other report

http://abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/story?id=5009270&page=1

http://www.commondreams.org/views/2015/06/02/40-reasons-our-...

http://www.naacp.org/pages/criminal-justice-fact-sheet

Oh , its an election year where the wife of the guy who help put these men in jail with his policies is running for office, I get it now.


You referred to having a black President and a "veto-proof" Congress for two years, which woud be 2009-2010.

Let's look at your articles:
ABC News - 2008
Common Dreams - desribes increase in incarceration since 1980. The linked article shows a DECREASE since 2008.
NAACP - none of the statistics that have a date are post-2008. The cited increase is for the period 1980-2008.

In other words, those articles have nothing to do with your point about the results of Obama's and Congress' actions during Obama's first two years as President.

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Jon Badolato
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actuaryesquire wrote:
jeremycobert wrote:
actuaryesquire wrote:
incarceration rates for African Americans are down.


really ? That seems counter intuitive to every other report

http://abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/story?id=5009270&page=1

http://www.commondreams.org/views/2015/06/02/40-reasons-our-...

http://www.naacp.org/pages/criminal-justice-fact-sheet

Oh , its an election year where the wife of the guy who help put these men in jail with his policies is running for office, I get it now.


You referred to having a black President and a "veto-proof" Congress for two years, which woud be 2009-2010.

Let's look at your articles:
ABC News - 2008
Common Dreams - desribes increase in incarceration since 1980. The linked article shows a DECREASE since 2008.
NAACP - none of the statistics that have a date are post-2008. The cited increase is for the period 1980-2008.

In other words, those articles have nothing to do with your point about the results of Obama's and Congress' actions during Obama's first two years as President.



Oh, SNAP !!
 
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Christopher Yaure
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bjlillo wrote:

I know it doesn't speak to Jeremy's insipid point, but the thug that the police officer killed in Milwaukee was 23 and had a record going back to when he was 15 years old. That record contained assault, robbery, car theft, possession of meth with the intent to distribute, and a myriad other things. He served no significant jail time.

Seems to me that his neighborhood would have been far better off with a shitbag like him sitting behind bars instead of out wreaking havoc.


BJ - the only thing I know about Sylville Smith is what I have read in a few news articles. That said, it appears most of those charges did not lead to convictions. According to AP reporting:

Quote:
Online court records showed multiple charges against the 23-year-old Smith dating back to 2013. One was as minor as retail theft — which was dismissed — and other less serious offenses included speeding, driving without insurance, driving with a suspended license or having open intoxicants in a vehicle.

There were more serious charges. Smith was accused in a shooting last year and charged with recklessly endangering safety, a felony.

The Milwaukee Journal Sentinel reported that Smith was subsequently accused of pressuring the victim to recant statements that identified him as the gunman and was charged with trying to intimidate a witness. The charges were dropped because the victim recanted the identification and failed to appear in court, Chief Deputy District Attorney Kent Lovern told the newspaper Sunday.

Smith also pleaded guilty to carrying a concealed weapon in 2014.

Milwaukee County Sheriff David Clarke said at a news conference that Smith had been arrested 13 times.

"He's got a bunch of drug arrests here, robbery, use of force," Clarke said.


https://www.yahoo.com/news/officials-cite-milwaukee-shooting...

He pleaded guilty to carrying a concelaed weapon in 2014 (any defense from the Second Amendment advocates). It is not clear from the artice if he was convicted of any of the driving offenses (speeding, driving without insurance, driving with a suspended license, open intoxicants in the car). All of the more serious charges detailed in the article were dismissed or dropped.

He may have been a bad man (I note your more colorful wording). Or, he may have been an African American male in a city with highly racist policing.
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J
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Drew1365 wrote:
abadolato01 wrote:
I always love the way Pubs point to any Democrat they can as the root cause of the evil they see.


It's almost always true, so it's a safe bet.

Oh look, a classic example of bigotry writ large.
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Steve
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jeremycobert wrote:
abadolato01 wrote:
Yes, I left the rest of his quote out, because I don't necessarily agree that the Democrats alone are responsible for either creating, or maintaining that lack of hope he describes above.


Well they had a black president and a veto proof house and senate for two years. Please tell me what they did to improve the black community during that time.

I will go ahead an wait for your answer.

This is an outright lie or demonstrates ignorance to such a level tht it giggles the mind.

The facts --
Yes, on election night it looked that way, but --
1] Al Frankin was not seated until June because of state law required recounts and then the Repud not conceding the election.

2] By that Sen. Kennedy was too sick to make it to the floor to vote.

3] Besides which the 40 Repud Senators were slow rolling all business.

4] In Sept. or Oct. after the long illness Sen. Kennedy died.

5] The election to replace him was held around Jan. 2, 2010. The Repud won.

So, the veto proof Senate existed in theory from June to Sept., 2009 and never really existed because Kennedy was so sick. [This is 3 to 4 mo., not 2 years.]

You, sir, are a liar or ignorant. Choose one.

 
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J
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Why just one? In his case I'm pretty sure it's both.
 
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Christopher Yaure
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And BJ, you keep treating arrests as the equivalent of guilty. In cities with racist policing issues like Milwaukee, that is just compounding the effects of the racism.
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James King
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bjlillo wrote:
A telling graphic from another piece on Milwaukee's carjackings:


And it's very telling indeed that the graphic in question cites no attributably reputable source for those crime statistics. And because it doesn't and since you yourself didn't attribute its source, for all we know, those could be cooked-up figures. After all, Donald Trump cited bogus crime statistics using a similar graphic.
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Andre
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bjlillo wrote:
actuaryesquire wrote:
And BJ, you keep treating arrests as the equivalent of guilty. In cities with racist policing issues like Milwaukee, that is just compounding the effects of the racism.


You keep imagining that racist policing is a thing here despite zero evidence and clearly have no understanding of local affairs. No-snitch, prosecutors go for plea deals instead of trial, police chief whines about social services instead of dealing with criminals, mayor thinks that you should get one freebie for pulling a gun on someone and stealing their car yet somehow, against all evidence, you want to whine about the imaginary racist police in your head instead of looking at all the lefty dumbfuckery that has gotten us here. Sad.


http://www.salon.com/2014/12/23/it_may_out_ferguson_ferguson...

Come again with the "zero evidence" thing... The article is 2 years old, but does show that there are definitely "problems" with the policing there, why put your head in the sand and blame it on any particular party. What would YOU do differently, that would solve the bad policing, that is highlighted in the article?
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Christopher Yaure
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bjlillo wrote:

You keep imagining that racist policing is a thing here ....


Really? Your starting point is that racist policing in Milwaukee is not a thing? Pitiful.

That echo chamber must be really loud.
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Andre
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bjlillo wrote:
actuaryesquire wrote:
bjlillo wrote:

You keep imagining that racist policing is a thing here ....


Really? Your starting point is that racist policing in Milwaukee is not a thing? Pitiful.

That echo chamber must be really loud.


I see you're incapable of addressing the facts and instead have to resort to ad hominem and your imagination. Weak sauce. Not really unexpected, but still pretty sad when someone with first hand knowledge of the city and its problems is giving you factual information that you were clearly unaware of previously.

Carry on, good soldier. Don't let the facts get in the way of the narrative you want to push to stoke racial flames.


You conveniently ignore the other cases mentioned in the article, your cherry picking of "facts" represents a disturbing bias in itself, selectively picking them if they favor your argument, but ignoring the info that does not. After reading that article, and attempting to make the claim that there is no policing problem in Milwaukee, or that the issue is all the fault of the poor black populace, is completly misguided, tragically.
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Christopher Yaure
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I won't refer you to the incredible disparity by race in arrests in Milwaukee - I am sure you would attribute it to differences in conduct.

So how about this one:

http://archive.jsonline.com/news/milwaukee/milwaukee-to-pay-...

Milwaukee is paying $5 million to settle with 74 residents for illegal strip searches - and the 74 resdients all just happen to be African-Americans.

So how about some evidence from you supporting your position that their is not a racism problem in Milwaukee policing?
 
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