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Caverna: The Cave Farmers» Forums » Variants

Subject: Fan expansion: Race packs rss

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Alex Wilber
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I'm a huge fan of Caverna and my girlfriend and I have been playing it pretty solidly for a couple of years now (playing in larger groups when we get the chance). From the beginning I really enjoyed the fantasy aspect of playing as dwarves rather than just human farmers, and after a while I got really excited by the idea of playing as other races - hobbits or goblins for example. Apart from the thematic interest, it offers the chance to try to work out the best strategies for each race, and adds a lot of replayability.

For just over a year I've been working on the race packs linked below. They contain a "card" with special rules for each race (maybe card is the wrong word, they should be A5 size when printed out). Player can pick one of the cards before they start a game. There's no reason more than one player can't pick the same race. Players may choose to play as "Hill Dwarves", which are the default race of the game, and add no special rules. In my group it's worked fine to have experienced players try one of the new races, while newer players stick to the Hill Dwarves.

I've divided the races into two "packs" just because there are quite a few of them and they could easily be overwhelming. Six races should easily be enough to keep you entertained for quite some time. But if you eventually decide you would like some more, there is pack 2! In general pack 2 contains the more complex races, although this isn't 100% the case.

The races are:

Pack 1:

Hill Dwarves - The default Caverna race, no special rules.
Hobbits - Hobbits are exceptional farmers, but also exceptionally hungry.
Trolls - Trolls are dumb but powerful, able to go on adventures with nothing more than a big club but never able to become very sophisticated in their adventuring. They are very hungry but are easily sated by eating whole animals - even dogs!
Kobolds - The tiny cousins of dragons, kobolds are obsessed with treasure but also unfortunately incompetent!
Mountain Dwarves - These cousins of the Hill Dwarves prefer to delve deep underground, rather than spending time on the surface.
Humans - By contrast to the Mountain Dwarves, humans are experts at exploiting the lands around their caves, but find it hard to dig far underground.

Pack 2:

Elves - Elves are masters of the forest, able to grow crops and raise animals among the trees, and even build rooms in treehouses. Most importantly of all, they can grow their own magical crops.
Dark Elves - Dark Elves are slavers. As an alternative to family growth, they can choose to capture goblin slaves to add to their workforce. Unfortunately the goblins are rather incompetent.
Goblins - Incredibly numerous but incredibly bungling, the goblins are a very fun race to play.
Pale Ones - Pale Ones are humans who have lived underground for many generations. They are masters of mushroom farming, and if necessary can grow all the food they need in their endless caverns.
Silicoids - Mysterious creatures formed from rock, the silicoids can subsist by eating only stones.
Gnomes - The gnomes are crackpot inventors who can build clockwork machines to help them. At their best the machines can be phenomenally useful, at the worst they are an expensive sink of time and resources.

We've playtested all the races reasonably extensively, so I think they are quite well balanced (which is not to say that they are all exactly as strong as each other - that's quite tricky!). Sometimes the balance is surprising - for example the Hobbits and the Gnomes have abilities that seem extremely powerful, but in practise they do not seem to do particularly better than anyone else.

All comments and feedback are very gratefully received!

You can get the packs here:

https://boardgamegeek.com/filepage/136312/caverna-race-pack

Edit: I've just uploaded a third mini-pack, of "antagonists". I've developed these races in a little burst of inspiration over the last few days. However, they're untested and I'm unlikely to have a chance to test them in the near future, so feedback is extremely welcome!

These antagonist races each somehow attack other players, although each can be countered. Perhaps they will move the feel of the game one tiny notch towards Dwarf Fortress. The races are:

Pack 3 - Antagonists:

Orcs - Orc adventurers obtain their resources (building materials, crops and animals) not from their environment but by stealing them from other players - unless the defenders keep them at bay with superior weapons or by hiding their valuables underground!
Gnolls - Gnolls struggle to capture animals from the wild, but excel at rustling them from other players. However their rustling efforts are foiled by stables, so other players will have to be careful to keep their animals safe.
Unseelie Fae - These mischievous faeries use their trickster magic to swap building materials, crops or animals with those of other players.

These are very much still in beta, but you can download them here:

http://llamaserver.net/llamabeast/Caverna/Caverna%20Race%20P...
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Steve C
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This looks pretty cool. Can't wait to try it out.
 
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Lawrence
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Subscribed. This is a brilliant idea and the race cards are well done. Hopefully I'll be able to get a game in this next week or so to test it out.
 
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Alexander Griffard
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This sounds like a fun idea and I definitely plan to try these races out. One recommendation: change the name of the Hobbit's "Greedy" trait to "Second Breakfast".
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Alex Wilber
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Haha, I like Second Breakfast, will use that when I update them!
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Michael W.
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What a wonderful idea and what a great job you did! Fantastic artwork! Did you do this all alone?

With this variant, you changed Caverna into a Caverna/Terra Mystica hybrid.

Have to try this out as soon as possible.
 
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Israel Waldrom
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They look very interesting, and the artwork is really nice
 
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Andy Kerrison
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Really like these. A fantastic idea and the illustrations are excellent.

What are your typical scores when playing with these at various player counts? They will obviously change the balance of the game, although that is not a bad thing - many of the occupation cards in Agricola do just that, and the 'rebalancing' of the game with different cards in play is part of what makes the game replayable.
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Josh
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This also gives a nice twist to the Solo game, which is usually a fairly static "how high can you score" solitaire puzzle.

Caverna has been getting dusty on my shelf lately, but I might take it out to give this a try...
 
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Alexander Griffard
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I played a solo three-player game last night with the Trolls, Mountain Dwarves, and Silicoids. The final score was Trolls 98, Mountain Dwarves 93, and Silicoids 86. Overall I really enjoyed this variant and will definitely try out the other races.

Trolls: My goal was to get a food engine up very quickly so I got a weapon and some vegetables and started planting like crazy. I got the Cooking Cave and after that never really struggled for food. Due to the Mountain Dwarves and Silicoids constantly taking the cavern clearing actions (and being unable to use weapons to make up for it), I lost some points to uncleared caverns and struggled for room to build buildings. So I focused on sowing and breeding, and got a good amount of points from the Fodder and Food chambers. I ate all my dogs on my final turn. gulp

I think the one extra adventure reward and being unable to go above level 8 is a good trade-off. One question: for the phase 4 action space Adventure (1 adventure then another 1 adventure) do the trolls get 4 rewards or just 3? I did 4.

Mountain Dwarves: With all the extra cavern space I decided to go heavy on mines and so got lots of donkeys and the Mining Cave to reduce my feeding costs. I got the Seam to get extra ore from clearing out caverns and so I was mostly able to ignore wood gathering actions. Not needing to build fences also reduced their usefulness. It was really interesting to basically ignore the outside of the cave and I ended up with one double pasture and two fields, earned mostly with adventure rewards. In hindsight I shouldn’t have even planted those fields, but my pasture was full of pigs which were nice for food.

Silicoids: It was really weird to struggle to get food in an entirely different way. I got the Stone Carver to get some extra stone and reduce my stone costs. I also got the Working Cave so I could use something other than stone to feed my people. I probably should have also tried to get the Quarry or the Stone supplier. In the later rounds I ended up getting a lot of my stone from rubies. Overall I don’t think I played very well with the Silicoids and will need to try them again.

This was fun! No idea if the races are balanced (I’m terrible at determining that), but they were a lot of fun and definitely made for a fresh and interesting experience.
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Adam P
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Very interesting stuff here, thanks for making it.

Although I think it moves Caverna from a sandbox game to a more scripted game, as players play to their special powers more. Not a bad thing, just different.

 
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Andy Kerrison
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HyperionHuxley wrote:

Trolls: My goal was to get a food engine up very quickly so I got a weapon and some vegetables and started planting like crazy. I got the Cooking Cave and after that never really struggled for food.


I would have thought that with the Troll's easy access to weapons, animal eating (assuming I've understood that correctly), and extra adventures, that planting for food is exactly what you shouldn't do, focusing entirely on animals would be better. You could take a level 3 adventure and feed 4 trolls (dog, sheep, donkey, pig). Get your sheep/donkeys/pigs breeding and you're sorted for food with less food than a normal hill dwarf race and without a feeding room.
 
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Alex Wilber
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snikla wrote:
What a wonderful idea and what a great job you did! Fantastic artwork! Did you do this all alone?


Thanks! Yes I did this alone. The artwork isn't original (that would require a whole extra level of skill!), but I selected the foreground and background artwork for each race and put it all together.

HyperionHuxley wrote:
I played a solo three-player game last night with the Trolls, Mountain Dwarves, and Silicoids. The final score was Trolls 98, Mountain Dwarves 93, and Silicoids 86. Overall I really enjoyed this variant and will definitely try out the other races.

Trolls: My goal was to get a food engine up very quickly so I got a weapon and some vegetables and started planting like crazy. I got the Cooking Cave and after that never really struggled for food. Due to the Mountain Dwarves and Silicoids constantly taking the cavern clearing actions (and being unable to use weapons to make up for it), I lost some points to uncleared caverns and struggled for room to build buildings. So I focused on sowing and breeding, and got a good amount of points from the Fodder and Food chambers. I ate all my dogs on my final turn. gulp

I think the one extra adventure reward and being unable to go above level 8 is a good trade-off. One question: for the phase 4 action space Adventure (1 adventure then another 1 adventure) do the trolls get 4 rewards or just 3? I did 4.


Yeah, the trolls are very hungry so food ends up being a big focus. As Andy_K suggests, I've generally done well by focussing hard on getting animals as they're an efficient way to keep the trolls fed, although it's surprising how hard it is to build up a good stock of animals when they keep on all getting eaten! If I can, I try to give all my trolls weapons so they can go on little adventures while gathering wood etc. I also tend to grow crops as well just for the points. My troll games all do tend to end in a dog holocaust!

To answer your question: They get 4 rewards (2 and then 2) on the phase 4 action space.

Quote:
Mountain Dwarves: With all the extra cavern space I decided to go heavy on mines and so got lots of donkeys and the Mining Cave to reduce my feeding costs. I got the Seam to get extra ore from clearing out caverns and so I was mostly able to ignore wood gathering actions. Not needing to build fences also reduced their usefulness. It was really interesting to basically ignore the outside of the cave and I ended up with one double pasture and two fields, earned mostly with adventure rewards. In hindsight I shouldn’t have even planted those fields, but my pasture was full of pigs which were nice for food.


For some reason I think the Mountain Dwarves may be my favourite race, I just really enjoy focussing on mining. Your strategy sounds similar to what I've tended to do. I often get the Ore Storage - if you go all out on building ore mines then you can get a huge amount of ore by the end of the game. Obviously you spend more than most races because you use it in place of wood, but still you can get a lot.

I also tend to do everything I can to store animals inside (since external pastures are so time consuming to clear). So, Mixed Dwelling, Breakfast Room etc, and always lots of donkeys. It's nice to be self-sufficient underground.

Quote:
Silicoids: It was really weird to struggle to get food in an entirely different way. I got the Stone Carver to get some extra stone and reduce my stone costs. I also got the Working Cave so I could use something other than stone to feed my people. I probably should have also tried to get the Quarry or the Stone supplier. In the later rounds I ended up getting a lot of my stone from rubies. Overall I don’t think I played very well with the Silicoids and will need to try them again.


Yep, it's a weird challenge to try to get all that stone (and not care about food!). Adventures are another good way of getting stone, a bit less painful than rubies.

Quote:
This was fun! No idea if the races are balanced (I’m terrible at determining that), but they were a lot of fun and definitely made for a fresh and interesting experience.


Thanks very much indeed for the report! Super fun to read about someone else playing with the races I spent so long working on.
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EDG
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This is a neat idea! Some questions from reading them though:

1) Trolls - How does Troll feeding work? They require 3 food, or they can eat any one animal? If they can do either then wouldn't it always be better to just eat one animal? I feel like I'm missing something here.

2) Dark Elves - Is there a limit to the number of Goblin Pets the Dark Elves can have? It sounds like getting Goblins is like an Adventuring equivalent of Family Growth, but does that mean that they can have more than five (or six) dwellings and 'family members' including the Goblin ones?

3) Elves - For their "magical crops", is the idea that rubies work the same way as Vegetables? (i.e. when you sow a ruby, you put an extra ruby there and then harvest that at harvest time?)

4) Gnomes - I don't get how the Mechanical Helper works. Does the Helper always stay on the board on that action space for the rest of the game after it's built, or does it stay just for that round? When you say "at the beginning of any future turn" do you mean whenever the Gnome player takes an action in that round, or at the start of every new round? (there are no "turns" in Caverna). Can you just keep building Helpers every Round and then you have the option to spend an ore to use any of them if nobody else takes the spot?

5) Goblins sound like they don't really have any advantages - one extra family member is OK at the start but that's going to get balanced out pretty quickly when everyone else does their first growth. I can't imagine them winning many games.


Questions aside, these are really good! I'll try to use them in my next game
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Alex Wilber
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Hi, thanks very much for the questions! I've now modified all of the cards you reference (except Goblins) to try to make them clearer, so if you download them again they'll hopefully be more obvious.

Quote:
1) Trolls - How does Troll feeding work? They require 3 food, or they can eat any one animal? If they can do either then wouldn't it always be better to just eat one animal? I feel like I'm missing something here.


Yep, they can choose to eat 3 food or 1 animal. 1 animal is mostly better, but perhaps you have picked up some food from the board, or you're trying to avoid killing a breeding pair, so you still have the option to use normal food tokens.

Quote:
2) Dark Elves - Is there a limit to the number of Goblin Pets the Dark Elves can have? It sounds like getting Goblins is like an Adventuring equivalent of Family Growth, but does that mean that they can have more than five (or six) dwellings and 'family members' including the Goblin ones?


Excellent question! I've now added some text to the card, this was quite a bad omission. The first goblin pet doesn't count towards family size, so basically you end up with a family 1 larger than normal. I'd considered just saying that the goblins didn't count at all to family size, but that could potentially get quite ridiculous!

Quote:
3) Elves - For their "magical crops", is the idea that rubies work the same way as Vegetables? (i.e. when you sow a ruby, you put an extra ruby there and then harvest that at harvest time?)


Yes, that's right.

Quote:
4) Gnomes - I don't get how the Mechanical Helper works. Does the Helper always stay on the board on that action space for the rest of the game after it's built, or does it stay just for that round? When you say "at the beginning of any future turn" do you mean whenever the Gnome player takes an action in that round, or at the start of every new round? (there are no "turns" in Caverna). Can you just keep building Helpers every Round and then you have the option to spend an ore to use any of them if nobody else takes the spot?


Yep, the Helper stays for the rest of the game. "Turn" did indeed mean "round", thanks for that! I should really re-check the rules for terminology. So I mean that at the start of each round you can choose which of your Helpers to activate, but at that point you don't know which spaces the other players will take. It sounds super overpowered as there's no limit to how many Helpers you can have, but I've found that in practice it's quite tricky to use well. One of the better places to put a Helper is on "Ore mining", as once you get some ore mines built he can power all the rest of your Helpers, but the plan is easily foiled.

Quote:
5) Goblins sound like they don't really have any advantages - one extra family member is OK at the start but that's going to get balanced out pretty quickly when everyone else does their first growth. I can't imagine them winning many games.


Actually from playtesting the goblins seem to be perhaps the most in danger of being overpowered. I basically added more and more disadvantages to them to try to keep them in check! I think they're pretty reasonable now, but it's amazing what a difference it makes to have an extra family member from the beginning.
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Lawrence
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Printed out on nice card stock and ready for play later this weekend. If everything seems well balanced after a few plays, I'm planning to mount these to some chipboard.

Again, great job on producing these!

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Thanks for the replies and fixes!

llamabeast wrote:
Quote:
2) Dark Elves - Is there a limit to the number of Goblin Pets the Dark Elves can have? It sounds like getting Goblins is like an Adventuring equivalent of Family Growth, but does that mean that they can have more than five (or six) dwellings and 'family members' including the Goblin ones?


Excellent question! I've now added some text to the card, this was quite a bad omission. The first goblin pet doesn't count towards family size, so basically you end up with a family 1 larger than normal. I'd considered just saying that the goblins didn't count at all to family size, but that could potentially get quite ridiculous!


OK, so now the maximum family size for Dark Elves is 6 + 1 Goblin? Or is it 5 + 1 goblin? (and some of the 5 (or 6) could be Goblins?)

So do the Dark Elves have any powers of their own? It looks like they can just get Goblins, use them as (not very good) family members, and their dwellings don't count for points. They have no other advantages for themselves though? (e.g. maybe they get always get a ruby when they place Deep Mines, even over a tunnel space?)


Quote:
Quote:
5) Goblins sound like they don't really have any advantages - one extra family member is OK at the start but that's going to get balanced out pretty quickly when everyone else does their first growth. I can't imagine them winning many games.


Actually from playtesting the goblins seem to be perhaps the most in danger of being overpowered. I basically added more and more disadvantages to them to try to keep them in check! I think they're pretty reasonable now, but it's amazing what a difference it makes to have an extra family member from the beginning.


OK, I'll give them a go then .
 
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Alex Wilber
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mavericklancer wrote:
Printed out on nice card stock and ready for play later this weekend. If everything seems well balanced after a few plays, I'm planning to mount these to some chipboard.


Awesome! Lovely to see them printed out!

EDG_ wrote:
OK, so now the maximum family size for Dark Elves is 6 + 1 Goblin? Or is it 5 + 1 goblin? (and some of the 5 (or 6) could be Goblins?)


It's 5 + 1 goblin (or equally 4 + 2 etc) or 6 + 1 goblin with the Additional Dwelling.

EDG_ wrote:
So do the Dark Elves have any powers of their own? It looks like they can just get Goblins, use them as (not very good) family members, and their dwellings don't count for points. They have no other advantages for themselves though? (e.g. maybe they get always get a ruby when they place Deep Mines, even over a tunnel space?)


No, they have no powers of their own, but the pet hunting can be quite powerful. If you set about getting a level 14 adventurer with some determination you can get there pretty quickly, and from then on you can get a new family member every round quite easily. I played with them last night and had 3 elves + 4 goblins by the end of Stage 3 IIRC, then my goblins just mopped up a heap of points.

I like the idea of always getting rubies from ruby mines though (is that what you mean by a deep mine?), if they need a boost that could be a good option. Would be a good fit to the Kobolds too.
 
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Ezra McNichols
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So.. how do people normally take a .png and print it to A5? My method was to convert to PDF and then set the page size to A5 when printing, but that doesn't seem like the easiest thing to do.
 
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llamabeast wrote:
I like the idea of always getting rubies from ruby mines though (is that what you mean by a deep mine?), if they need a boost that could be a good option. Would be a good fit to the Kobolds too.


Yeah sorry, the ruby mines are what I call "deep mines". I thought it might fit them given that the normal Elves have the ruby sowing ability.
 
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Phil Campeau
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You might need to change the Hobbit name to Halflings, for copyright reasons. Beyond that, this sounds very cool!
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Ezra McNichols
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I used these today and they were excellent.

Couple questions:

All the spots that refer to losing 'resources' - such as the Dark Elves' pets or Kobolds or Goblins leaving stuff behind, or the Gnomes losing them - what are 'resources'? Are animals and food resources? Do you get a choice of what to lose? For the Dark Elves' pets, I assume that they lose a resource regardless of if it's an accumulating resource space (most of them) or a one-time resource space (e.g. Supplies)?

For the races that require more food, what about babies?

For the goblins, what would you use for the extra baby?

The Dark Elves' pets - they go after everyone else's people. This means if you have 2 Elves with weapons and 3 pets, that your Elves that have weapons will get to go as your first 2 and then the remaining pets will go after everyone else is done, correct? This means that the pets 'laziness' actually helps you.

All in all, though, I would echo the thoughts on /r/boardgames and here - truly an excellent idea.
 
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Alex Wilber
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ecm85 wrote:
I used these today and they were excellent.


Great! Which races did you play? How did they do?

Quote:
Couple questions:

All the spots that refer to losing 'resources' - such as the Dark Elves' pets or Kobolds or Goblins leaving stuff behind, or the Gnomes losing them - what are 'resources'? Are animals and food resources? Do you get a choice of what to lose? For the Dark Elves' pets, I assume that they lose a resource regardless of if it's an accumulating resource space (most of them) or a one-time resource space (e.g. Supplies)?


You've inspired me to re-read the rules to check my terminology. The word for resources is apparently "goods". What I mean is anything you pick up off the board, so that includes animals and food. The various "incompetent" species always leave one behind when they physically pick up goods from an Action space. This only applies to accumulating resource spaces - non-accumulating spaces (e.g. Supplies) are not affected. Where applicable, you can choose which item you leave behind. I'll definitely update the cards to make this much clearer.

Quote:
For the races that require more food, what about babies?


The babies always need just one food.

Quote:
For the goblins, what would you use for the extra baby?


I just use a spare counter of another colour. If you run out, just improvise something from another game.

Quote:
The Dark Elves' pets - they go after everyone else's people. This means if you have 2 Elves with weapons and 3 pets, that your Elves that have weapons will get to go as your first 2 and then the remaining pets will go after everyone else is done, correct? This means that the pets 'laziness' actually helps you.


Yes, that's correct. I guess it sort of helps you, but going dead last can be quite a severe disadvantage.

Quote:
All in all, though, I would echo the thoughts on /r/boardgames and here - truly an excellent idea.


Thanks!
 
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Jack Eddy
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I posted this on reddit too, but thought I'd cast the net wide in hope of finding more talented people than myself:

Ok. So who is going to set up the file on artscow so this can easily be purchased for printing like other notable fan expansions (forbidden island alternate roles/setup and descent redjack auto overlord come to mind). I really want these!

Also, great job! And do you have a high res wallpaper of some of these races? The art is gorgeous.
 
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Ezra McNichols
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We played Hill Dwarves (newbie), Dark Elves (me), and Humans (wife). Felt really balanced.

Did have one more question - do you get to use Dark Elf pets immediately? I assumed so, since there isn't a 'growing up' period, but I guess there could be a training period?
 
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