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Subject: Panzer or MBT rss

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Charles Ting
Malaysia
Sibu
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Hello:
I'm on the fence between MBT and Panzer. However, due to the fact that I currently can't find Panzer selling anywhere online, I wish to ask if there is one that's more solo friendly than the other? More complex? I understand that MBT's got the airstrikes added in. Or it's nothing more than the era of war that appeals to a player?

Thanks
 
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Eddie Carlson
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For me, it's more of the era. The basics for them both are very similar. Check GMT for the rules and playbooks and then go to vassal to see how they look. I really think it will come down to your preference as both are really good.
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Tony
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You can get Panzer directly from GMT. It ain't cheap, but it is available.
 
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Ahmed Hadzi
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If you know one you know 93% of the other game. Stats are even on the same scale so if you ever had both games you could build your own scenarios of M1 Abrams vs Tigers!

It boils down to interest in era like previous poster said
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Charles Ting
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Or I can just get both?!
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Ahmed Hadzi
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charlesting wrote:
Or I can just get both?!


Of course! If you like one you must like the other. I would say that base MBT gives better value as it comes with geomorphic maps out of the box. Base Panzer has only one map so that might be bit repetitive after few plays. Maps from Panzer expansions can be combined with MBT base game maps.
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Cracky McCracken
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Just got my copy of MBT yesterday so I'm still reveling in in the gorgeous, wargaminess of this product. Don't think this will be any more or less soloable than any other "counter n hex" wargame.

The way you assign facedown order counters to all the units might make it quite soloable however. I don't work until tonight and my kid started school yesterday so i will be spending my morning punching/sorting and getting to know this beautiful hunk of wargaming manliness.

The pics don't do this game justice... the UPS man got a hernia dropping it off on the front porch. MBT is going to own my table for a while. Another fine job by the good folks at GMT Games.
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Adam Parker
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Panzer the base game also only has one paper 22x34" map. MBT is the real geomorphic deal with back-printed card stock sections.

That said, MBT includes a lot of modern elements not found in Panzer but the basic games (i.e. pre advanced and optional rules) are essentially the same.

So it comes down to whether you'd plan to expand Panzer for its geomorphic maps or set yourself straight up in Europe 1987.

Whichever way you go, expect meaty rulebooks with routines that do become second nature.
 
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Charles Ting
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Are expansions a necessity? Whichever way I go, I can forsee this is a heavy investment along with the expansions.
 
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Cracky McCracken
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There is a ton of content in MBT. No need for an expansion right away if at all from what I've seen so far. Serious amount of replayability.

The counters are amazing. A joy to clip.
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Adam Parker
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charlesting wrote:
Are expansions a necessity? Whichever way I go, I can forsee this is a heavy investment along with the expansions.


For Panzer, yes. Exp 1 and 3 definitely imo. You'll quickly tire of that one single paper map. Panzer the Base Game was designed as a tester for those who wanted a feel for the system.

MBT takes a different tack. It's the real deal. The whole US vs USSR show.
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gonzalo fernandez
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Mbt and panzer are only available though GMT???
No european retailers??
 
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Brian Scott
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Cracky wrote:
There is a ton of content in MBT. No need for an expansion right away if at all from what I've seen so far. Serious amount of replayability.

The counters are amazing. A joy to clip.


How did you clip them? I have a 2.5mm corner rounder but I'm thinking the big counters may need more trimming than that will provide.
 
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Nolan Hudgens
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1) corner nipper-
My 2.5 mm nipper did just fine with these. You'll want to trim the data cards too. The only drawback is that the pieces are really thick, so that you'll want to take care inserting them. (wow! what a thing to say)

2) GMT in Europe-
Living in the USA gives me no insight at all for this. However the usual retailers in Europe (or European online sellers for that matter) that carry GMT things _should_ be able to get MBT and its relatives. Just now MBT and the Panzer reprint might be hard to find since they're just off preorder status. Ask your favorite merchant to order them.
 
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Adam Parker
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bnscott wrote:
Cracky wrote:
There is a ton of content in MBT. No need for an expansion right away if at all from what I've seen so far. Serious amount of replayability.

The counters are amazing. A joy to clip.


How did you clip them? I have a 2.5mm corner rounder but I'm thinking the big counters may need more trimming than that will provide.


3mm standard Oregon corner rounder.
 
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Cracky McCracken
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bnscott wrote:
Cracky wrote:
There is a ton of content in MBT. No need for an expansion right away if at all from what I've seen so far. Serious amount of replayability.

The counters are amazing. A joy to clip.


How did you clip them? I have a 2.5mm corner rounder but I'm thinking the big counters may need more trimming than that will provide.


Big nail clippers. To get started you only need to punch/clip command counters and some of the basic information counters and a dozen or so tank counters. So it's not too bad.

Throw a couple boards together and follow through the Basic Rulebook. I was bit murky on spotting and how the spot counters work. The AP fire resolution system is the biggest hurdle in the basic game, but it comes together with practice. Soon, "brewed up" wrecks are littering the battlefield. MBT is like smashing Tonka Trucks together in the sandbox. Looking forward to the Advanced Rulebook to add infantry and all the other goodies.

The first scenario is a tank only, basic scenario... so that's next however.
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Mark Russo
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You probably would want to learn the advanced AP rules, they are basically the heart of the entire Panzer-MBT system.
 
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Charles Ting
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Sibu
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Looking forward for a playthru review-a solo one in particular, hopefully.
 
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Adam Parker
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See Marco Arnaudo’s reviews of Panzer - Base and Advanced games.
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Anthonii ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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bnscott wrote:
Cracky wrote:
There is a ton of content in MBT. No need for an expansion right away if at all from what I've seen so far. Serious amount of replayability.

The counters are amazing. A joy to clip.


How did you clip them? I have a 2.5mm corner rounder but I'm thinking the big counters may need more trimming than that will provide.


I have 2mm. Its fine. Don't wast your money over 1mm
 
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