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Mark O'Reilly
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We just played this family version at 4 player with the kids. The rules are unclear in a few areas and we cannot simply assume they will be the same as normal Agricola due to the nature of this streamlined Family version.

1) Stables:
The rules state "Each stable costs 2 wood and is placed in or next to one of your pastures".

A) What if I have no pastures placed at the time I get a stable?
( easily happens as there are "free" stables handed out while taking other actions in this version).

B) I place a stable on the table ( no pasture), can I later place it in a pasture?

C) If I cannot move the stable once it is placed on the table, and assume I place it "next" to a pasture, is that space now blocked for placing a future tile?

2) It is not stated anywhere in the rules, and I assume "not" , but can placed tiles be re-arranged?

3) Do fields need to be placed next to fields?, pastures next to pastures? ( like in normal Agricola). I assume not, as it simply does not state that you have to in this version. It simply states to place a tile next to another one of your tiles.

It vaguely refers to "rooms" being next to each other when the rules warn against building around a house and enclosing it in, making future room expansion not possible , but this is the only reference on specific tile placement.

4) Fire places and cooking hearth placement:

The rules explain how a fireplace and cooking hearth work with no rule on placement ( normal Agric these would be cards and no placement needed)

The rules then further confuse by boldly listing a new section highlighted in brown ,titled "Improvements" (to be clear after fireplace and cooking hearth explanation), and go on to state Improvements are placed next to another tile in front of you.

To confuse yet further..... On the next page the cooking hearth and fireplace are now referred to as Improvements.

Do the cooking hearths and fireplaces need to be placed adjacent to an already placed tile?.

I see a question asked and officially answered here in the forums referring to points for rooms, stating you get 2 points for the starting room ( it's double) , yet the rules only refer to a point per tile , no matter it's size, so even a 7 pasture tile is only worth 1 VP at game end.

It would of helped enormously if there was an illustration in the rulebook showing legal/illegal tile placement and some showing victory points for different constructed farms.

We know normal Agricola inside out, but we simply cannot assume the same rules apply as there are a number of changes and the rule book is very vague on some key issues and simply does not cover some of them at all.

Be good to have official answers on the above. Thank you.
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Grant
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Has the English rule book been published anywhere online yet? Last time I looked for it I couldn't find it.
 
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Mark O'Reilly
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No Grant, just the German one still.

We had a great first game, but we had to just assume some of the above and while I "think" I may know the correct answers, without a definitive ruling...it is just guessing
 
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Chris Funk
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biffta wrote:
We just played this family version at 4 player with the kids. The rules are unclear in a few areas and we cannot simply assume they will be the same as normal Agricola due to the nature of this streamlined Family version.

1) Stables:
The rules state "Each stable costs 2 wood and is placed in or next to one of your pastures".

A) What if I have no pastures placed at the time I get a stable?
( easily happens as there are "free" stables handed out while taking other actions in this version).

B) I place a stable on the table ( no pasture), can I later place it in a pasture?

C) If I cannot move the stable once it is placed on the table, and assume I place it "next" to a pasture, is that space now blocked for placing a future tile?




Under Fences:

The Pasture also tells you how many Animals you can keep in it
(indicated by the paw symbol). If you have a Stable in front of you that
is outside of a Pasture, you may place it in your new Pasture.

I believe that covers all 3.

A) You can place them next to one of your placed tiles.

B) You may place a stable on the table in a newly purchased pasture.

C) It doesn't take up space or block placement of a pasture because it can be picked up and placed on any newly purchased pasture.

biffta wrote:
2) It is not stated anywhere in the rules, and I assume "not" , but can placed tiles be re-arranged?


Placements are final. You shouldn't have to really worry about rearranging tiles, since the game allows choice of placements. Now, being a family edition, if you find yourself walling in your house and leave no room for expansion, you can house rule all you like. Especially with kids.[/q]

biffta wrote:
3) Do fields need to be placed next to fields?, pastures next to pastures? ( like in normal Agricola). I assume not, as it simply does not state that you have to in this version. It simply states to place a tile next to another one of your tiles.

It vaguely refers to "rooms" being next to each other when the rules warn against building around a house and enclosing it in, making future room expansion not possible , but this is the only reference on specific tile placement.


With the family edition, you can place any tile next to an already placed tile. House tiles have to be adjacent to another house tile, hence the ruling about not building completely around the house tiles and hampering expansion.

You can place a field next to a house tile, then place a pasture next to the field, then place another pasture off of the first pasture. This has been simplified for the family edition so that you aren't constrained to a set grid on a field and instead you only have to have one edge touching another tile. You can place them all in a line, if you like.

biffta wrote:
4) Fire places and cooking hearth placement:

The rules explain how a fireplace and cooking hearth work with no rule on placement ( normal Agric these would be cards and no placement needed)

The rules then further confuse by boldly listing a new section highlighted in brown ,titled "Improvements" (to be clear after fireplace and cooking hearth explanation), and go on to state Improvements are placed next to another tile in front of you.

To confuse yet further..... On the next page the cooking hearth and fireplace are now referred to as Improvements.

Do the cooking hearths and fireplaces need to be placed adjacent to an already placed tile?.


Under Improvements:

If you want to build an Improvement, you have to place a Person on the appropriate action space and pay the cost. Then take the corresponding tile and place it next to another tile in front of you.

Seems pretty explanatory. You build the improvement, place it next to one of your already placed tiles.

biffta wrote:
I see a question asked and officially answered here in the forums referring to points for rooms, stating you get 2 points for the starting room ( it's double) , yet the rules only refer to a point per tile , no matter it's size, so even a 7 pasture tile is only worth 1 VP at game end.


You get one point for each room in your house. The starting room tile is one tile, but it is two rooms. The explicit scoring on the number of rooms negates the "per tile" scoring. All of the pastures are 1 point, regardless of size. Bigger pastures are worth more technically because they enable you to hold more animals, thus generating more points.

biffta wrote:
We know normal Agricola inside out, but we simply cannot assume the same rules apply as there are a number of changes and the rule book is very vague on some key issues and simply does not cover some of them at all.


I think a lot of the issues are that the experienced Gric players are trying to make a far more complicated game out of the game than what it really is. It's Agricola Lite. Extra lite.

And most of the questions you had above were answered in the rule book. The other rule about permanent placement seems pretty assumed and I would have expected a blurb about being able to rearrange placements, as that would be to the contrary of most tile placement mechanics. One you place a room, field, or pasture in Agricola, you can't move the tile. No reason to think you could do so in the Family edition.

Take the scoring example above. You want to argue that larger pastures should be worth more, but they aren't and want to know why. Just as in the full Agricola, building a large pasture doesn't gain you more points because you built it other than the number of pastures you build in total. It enables you to house a larger number of animals, which increases your score. The scoring was simplified to say instead of getting four points for building x number of pastures, you get 1 point for each. four pastures in full Gric scores 4 points. 4 pastures in Gric Family is still 4 points. It's pretty much almost the exact same scoring, just simplified.
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Mark O'Reilly
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Thanks Chris, don't know how I missed the stable in the fences section!.

I think your assumption is right, it's easy to over egg the complexity having played Agricola standard.

I think it's a great game for playing with younger ones.
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Grzegorz Kobiela
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Chris got everything right!
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Josh
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FWIW, after a first play most of our questions had to do with stables. There is no statement in the rulebook that a stable can be placed on a later-built pasture.
 
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Chris Funk
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JoshBot wrote:
FWIW, after a first play most of our questions had to do with stables. There is no statement in the rulebook that a stable can be placed on a later-built pasture.


Page 7 in the rules under Fences:

The Pasture also tells you how many Animals you can keep in it
(indicated by the paw symbol). If you have a Stable in front of you that
is outside of a Pasture, you may place it in your new Pasture.
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Josh
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FunkyBlue wrote:
JoshBot wrote:
FWIW, after a first play most of our questions had to do with stables. There is no statement in the rulebook that a stable can be placed on a later-built pasture.


Page 7 in the rules under Fences:

The Pasture also tells you how many Animals you can keep in it
(indicated by the paw symbol). If you have a Stable in front of you that
is outside of a Pasture, you may place it in your new Pasture.
The printed rules that came in my game do not have the second sentence you have quoted, but instead state "If you have a stable in your supply you may place it on a new pasture."

This is a funny statement, because if the above statement is taken literally, it would suggest that there are four statuses for a stable: unclaimed in the general supply, in a player's personal supply (to be placed on a pasture tile later), on a pasture, or next to your tiles to be used to keep a single animal.

Don't get me wrong, I have no doubt that a stable can later be placed on a tile, but the phrasing in my rulebook was puzzling. We were debating whether that phrase meant a stable could either be held in one's supply for later placement vs. immediate but permanent placement outside of the tiles.
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Grant
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JoshBot wrote:
FunkyBlue wrote:
JoshBot wrote:
FWIW, after a first play most of our questions had to do with stables. There is no statement in the rulebook that a stable can be placed on a later-built pasture.


Page 7 in the rules under Fences:

The Pasture also tells you how many Animals you can keep in it
(indicated by the paw symbol). If you have a Stable in front of you that
is outside of a Pasture, you may place it in your new Pasture.
The printed rules that came in my game do not have the second sentence you have quoted, but instead state "If you have a stable in your supply you may place it on a new pasture."

This is a funny statement, because if the above statement is taken literally, it would suggest that there are four statuses for a stable: unclaimed in the general supply, in a player's personal supply (to be placed on a pasture tile later), on a pasture, or next to your tiles to be used to keep a single animal.

Don't get me wrong, I have no doubt that a stable can later be placed on a tile, but the phrasing in my rulebook was puzzling. We were debating whether that phrase meant a stable could either be held in one's supply for later placement vs. immediate but permanent placement outside of the tiles.

That is also the wording in the PDF version that Mayfair has available on their site. If they've updated the printed version already, they really ought to update their digital one as well. That wording is very confusing.
https://www.mayfairgames.com/files/supportfiles/mfg3514_rule...
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James Peyster
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Another rules ambiguity exists in the "sow" action. For sowing, the rules simply say "Place one grain from your supply on up to 3 of your fields. Next, add two grain from the general supply to each of these fields." Notice that there is absolutely nothing here (or anywhere else) which says that you can only sow an *empty* field. Nor does anything in the rules say that a field maxes out at 3 grains. So, by the letter of the law, you could sow the same field every turn and keep piling up grain in the fields.

Regular Agricola has a rule which states that only empty fields can be sowed, but this game does not. Nor is there any reason to infer such a rule other than the fact that it perhaps doesn't make much thematic sense to sow a planted field. But most people seem to play with the empty field rule anyway.
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Grzegorz Kobiela
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The empty field rule still applies.
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Peter Skurr
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Cant find anything in the rules to state that a field has to be empty to sow.
But we have made the assumption that you can only reap fields that were sowed that turn.

But would be nice to have a definitive ruling.

New to the game and have only played the family edition.

Missed the allowance to move a stable.
 
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Grant
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wobblysquare wrote:
Cant find anything in the rules to state that a field has to be empty to sow.
But we have made the assumption that you can only reap fields that were sowed that turn.

But would be nice to have a definitive ruling.

New to the game and have only played the family edition.

Missed the allowance to move a stable.

The answer is in the post directly above yours. In case you're not familiar with who Ponton is, he works with Uwe and his rulings are definitive.
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Peter Skurr
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Thanks,
This game is my first introduction to Agricola, and no idea who can provide a definitive answer. We will have to alter our house rules.

 
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wobblysquare wrote:
Cant find anything in the rules to state that a field has to be empty to sow.
But we have made the assumption that you can only reap fields that were sowed that turn.

But would be nice to have a definitive ruling.

New to the game and have only played the family edition.

Missed the allowance to move a stable.
To clarify, a sown field will be harvested (reaped) each harvest until all grain markets are removed, with one marker being removed each harvest. A newly empty field can then be sown again.

Overall, I think the rules to Agricola: Family, are pretty good, but there is definitely a degree of assumed familiarity with the original game that would pose challenges for totally new players.
 
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Grzegorz Kobiela
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We did miss pointing out that you can only sow in empty fields, for which I'd like to apologize.
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biffta wrote:
I think it's a great game for playing with younger ones.

Or nongaming spouse and/or friends who get overwhelmed by the original game.

Fwiw I had no questions on any of the rules (except for whether to score the starting (clay) house 1 or 2 points. And of course the field would be empty before sowing - why would you sow a full field?
 
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Chris Funk
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RenaissanceMom wrote:
And of course the field would be empty before sowing - why would you sow a full field?


Because common sense does not take effect until after harvest.
 
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Princeton Nguyen
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Once I place a stable on a pasture, can I move a stable to a different pasture?
 
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Chris Funk
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DaftPrince wrote:
Once I place a stable on a pasture, can I move a stable to a different pasture?


Once you've placed a pasture, it's permanent to that pasture.
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Gordon Robinson
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"Each stable costs 2 wood and is placed in or next to one of your pastures"

So if I am yet to build a pasture then I can't build a stables?

This will mean if you expand your house early in the game from a 2 room house to a 3 room house and you have not yet brought a pasture then you can't use the additional build stables action. Is this right?
 
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Grant
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Gordon wrote:
"Each stable costs 2 wood and is placed in or next to one of your pastures"

So if I am yet to build a pasture then I can't build a stables?

This will mean if you expand your house early in the game from a 2 room house to a 3 room house and you have not yet brought a pasture then you can't use the additional build stables action. Is this right?

No, this was the very first question answered in this thread.

FunkyBlue wrote:
biffta wrote:
We just played this family version at 4 player with the kids. The rules are unclear in a few areas and we cannot simply assume they will be the same as normal Agricola due to the nature of this streamlined Family version.

1) Stables:
The rules state "Each stable costs 2 wood and is placed in or next to one of your pastures".

A) What if I have no pastures placed at the time I get a stable?
( easily happens as there are "free" stables handed out while taking other actions in this version).

B) I place a stable on the table ( no pasture), can I later place it in a pasture?

C) If I cannot move the stable once it is placed on the table, and assume I place it "next" to a pasture, is that space now blocked for placing a future tile?




Under Fences:

The Pasture also tells you how many Animals you can keep in it
(indicated by the paw symbol). If you have a Stable in front of you that
is outside of a Pasture, you may place it in your new Pasture.

I believe that covers all 3.

A) You can place them next to one of your placed tiles.

B) You may place a stable on the table in a newly purchased pasture.

C) It doesn't take up space or block placement of a pasture because it can be picked up and placed on any newly purchased pasture.

 
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