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Subject: The Era of 'The Bitch' Is Coming rss

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Steven Woodcock
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Hmmmm.....

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/08/the-era-...
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It isn't any worse to call Hillary a bitch or cunt than it is to call Obama a dick or a bastard. An insult that happens to include gender doesn't mean someone is being misogynistic. A leader has to expect insults. The stronger the leader, the more the insults fly from the people who aren't getting what they want.
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Christopher Seguin
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galad2003 wrote:
Isn't it possible some of us dislike Hillary because of who she is and not that she is a woman?


NO!!!

Blasphemer!

The only reason you hate Hillary is because she is a female, you misogynistic jerk!

Just like the only reason you hate Obama is because you are a racist hater!

See how that works? Follow the NARRATIVE!
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Mike Stiles
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galad2003 wrote:
Isn't it possible some of us dislike Hillary because of who she is and not that she is a woman?


Yes, you can dislike Clinton because you've been fed 23 years of propaganda about how evil and corrupt she is.

It's amazing how, even if people don't believe any particular accusation, the continual attacks seems to make a latent feeling that she's just 'vaguely bad' exist. Once you've gotten that into peoples subconcious, they'll fill in the gaps.
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Mac Mcleod
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galad2003 wrote:
Isn't it possible some of us dislike Hillary because of who she is and not that she is a woman?


Absolutely, just don't slip into criticizing her female voice as six conservative commentators did right after her speech to the DNC.

When she says the same thing a man does; don't talk about it being hormones or how she was being bitchy or some other veiled attack on her because she's a female.

Obama would have been lucky to be called a bastard. Many of the insults were grossly or subtly racist taking pointed notice of his blackness or his african heritage.
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Pete Goch
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galad2003 wrote:
Isn't it possible some of us dislike Hillary because of who she is and not that she is a woman?


Who is she? I mean is she someone that you actually, personally know? I've always found it perplexing that people can claim to dislike or even hate people they've never even met. Hate someone (personally) that they know nothing about other than what the media has presented to us. In this case, what a subsection of the media that has existed for the sole purpose of demonizing for over 20 years now.

It's baffling.

You can hate what they claim to stand for, what they've accomplished or have failed to accomplish and what they're likely to attempt to accomplish. But hate them personally?

It's bizarre to me.
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Steven Woodcock
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galad2003 wrote:
Isn't it possible some of us dislike Hillary because of who she is and not that she is a woman?


Me! ME!


Ferret
 
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Christopher Seguin
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TheOneTrueZeke wrote:
galad2003 wrote:
Isn't it possible some of us dislike Hillary because of who she is and not that she is a woman?


Who is she? I mean is she someone that you actually, personally know? I've always found it perplexing that people can claim to dislike or even hate people they've never even met. Hate someone (personally) that they know nothing about other than what the media has presented to us. In this case, what a subsection of the media that has existed for the sole purpose of demonizing for over 20 years now.

It's baffling.

You can hate what they claim to stand for, what they've accomplished or have failed to accomplish and what they're likely to attempt to accomplish. But hate them personally?

It's bizarre to me.


Well, he said "dislike" not "hate" - Dislike does not carry the same connotation.

And when people say they "hate" politicians (or anyone else in the public sphere), I think it is a shorter way of saying "I don't know this person directly or personally because I have never met them, but I really hate their policies, I hate how they mishandled this particular event, and I hate how they do certain things." But that's kind of annoying to have to repeat all the time, so it gets condensed down to "hate" directed at the person, when in fact that really isn't the target.

Or maybe it is.
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Pete Goch
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chrisnd wrote:
TheOneTrueZeke wrote:
galad2003 wrote:
Isn't it possible some of us dislike Hillary because of who she is and not that she is a woman?


Who is she? I mean is she someone that you actually, personally know? I've always found it perplexing that people can claim to dislike or even hate people they've never even met. Hate someone (personally) that they know nothing about other than what the media has presented to us. In this case, what a subsection of the media that has existed for the sole purpose of demonizing for over 20 years now.

It's baffling.

You can hate what they claim to stand for, what they've accomplished or have failed to accomplish and what they're likely to attempt to accomplish. But hate them personally?

It's bizarre to me.


Well, he said "dislike" not "hate" - Dislike does not carry the same connotation.

And when people say they "hate" politicians (or anyone else in the public sphere), I think it is a shorter way of saying "I don't know this person directly or personally because I have never met them, but I really hate their policies, I hate how they mishandled this particular event, and I hate how they do certain things." But that's kind of annoying to have to repeat all the time, so it gets condensed down to "hate" directed at the person, when in fact that really isn't the target.

Or maybe it is.



Maybe.

But the character of the discussion seems to, typically, be much more about the imagined persona of the individual than it ever does about their policies and political deeds. It typically seems intensely personal.
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jeremy cobert
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galad2003 wrote:
Isn't it possible some of us dislike Hillary because of who she is and not that she is a woman?


Seriously the only reason she keeps getting into mishaps with the law is because she is a woman. We all know it because women are not as clever as men.
 
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windsagio wrote:
galad2003 wrote:
Isn't it possible some of us dislike Hillary because of who she is and not that she is a woman?


Yes, you can dislike Clinton because you've been fed 23 years of propaganda about how evil and corrupt she is.

It's amazing how, even if people don't believe any particular accusation, the continual attacks seems to make a latent feeling that she's just 'vaguely bad' exist. Once you've gotten that into peoples subconcious, they'll fill in the gaps.

Most of the attacks are nonsense. The only ones I am sure are not is the simple fact that she and her husband have enriched themselves by dangling her future (potential) presidency in front of corporations in exchange for speaking fees. There is a reason that Hillary is against single payer healthcare and is in bed with the banks, and it isn't because she thinks it is the right thing to do.
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Rebecca Carpenter
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sfox wrote:
It isn't any worse to call Hillary a bitch or cunt than it is to call Obama a dick or a bastard. An insult that happens to include gender doesn't mean someone is being misogynistic. A leader has to expect insults. The stronger the leader, the more the insults fly from the people who aren't getting what they want.


Is cunt even an insult? Because mine's great, I'm very proud of it. Call me cunt all you like, it's a compliment.

This article seemed to address the broader effects of gendered name-calling that Hilary will encounter stepping into what it describes as a "masculine office". But yeah, she gives no fucks about insults. Gender specific insults have more affect on the malleable among us, potentially setting up obstacles on Hilary's every endeavor. To be expected. She's prepared for it.
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Mike Stiles
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sfox wrote:
windsagio wrote:
galad2003 wrote:
Isn't it possible some of us dislike Hillary because of who she is and not that she is a woman?


Yes, you can dislike Clinton because you've been fed 23 years of propaganda about how evil and corrupt she is.

It's amazing how, even if people don't believe any particular accusation, the continual attacks seems to make a latent feeling that she's just 'vaguely bad' exist. Once you've gotten that into peoples subconcious, they'll fill in the gaps.

Most of the attacks are nonsense. The only ones I am sure are not is the simple fact that she and her husband have enriched themselves by dangling her future (potential) presidency in front of corporations in exchange for speaking fees. There is a reason that Hillary is against single payer healthcare and is in bed with the banks, and it isn't because she thinks it is the right thing to do.


Sounds more like 'ascribing intent' than 'simple facts' though.

Which honestly ties into my theory.
 
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windsagio wrote:
galad2003 wrote:
Isn't it possible some of us dislike Hillary because of who she is and not that she is a woman?


Yes, you can dislike Clinton because you've been fed 23 years of propaganda about how evil and corrupt she is.

It's amazing how, even if people don't believe any particular accusation, the continual attacks seems to make a latent feeling that she's just 'vaguely bad' exist. Once you've gotten that into peoples subconcious, they'll fill in the gaps.


*shrug* I think there's some of that but I also think a lot of her supporters have bought into the "It's all just accusations" line way too hard.

I have a fairly high level of policy agreement with Clinton. I think she's smart, well-informed, and really cares about policy details. As a father of two girls I'm really pleased that they will see a female President, and I'm optimistic that she will be a good one. She has the capability.

But I also think that Clinton has shown, not in some vague "I keep reading she's dishonest" sense, that lying is a purely pragmatic question for her. I don't think she views it as a necessary evil but rather as a tool that can be used to get what she wants and that she will not hesitate to use if the truth would be inconvenient for her ends. She has a lawyer's gift for lying in ways that are very hard to pin down, or that give her wiggle room (see the futility of the recent calls to investigate her for perjury) but that doesn't mean that the distrust is based only on some vague sense from all the negative coverage.
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Mac Mcleod
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Chad_Ellis wrote:
windsagio wrote:
galad2003 wrote:
Isn't it possible some of us dislike Hillary because of who she is and not that she is a woman?


Yes, you can dislike Clinton because you've been fed 23 years of propaganda about how evil and corrupt she is.

It's amazing how, even if people don't believe any particular accusation, the continual attacks seems to make a latent feeling that she's just 'vaguely bad' exist. Once you've gotten that into peoples subconcious, they'll fill in the gaps.


*shrug* I think there's some of that but I also think a lot of her supporters have bought into the "It's all just accusations" line way too hard.

I have a fairly high level of policy agreement with Clinton. I think she's smart, well-informed, and really cares about policy details. As a father of two girls I'm really pleased that they will see a female President, and I'm optimistic that she will be a good one. She has the capability.

But I also think that Clinton has shown, not in some vague "I keep reading she's dishonest" sense, that lying is a purely pragmatic question for her. I don't think she views it as a necessary evil but rather as a tool that can be used to get what she wants and that she will not hesitate to use if the truth would be inconvenient for her ends. She has a lawyer's gift for lying in ways that are very hard to pin down, or that give her wiggle room (see the futility of the recent calls to investigate her for perjury) but that doesn't mean that the distrust is based only on some vague sense from all the negative coverage.


Compared to what?

Do you distrust her more than trump? Cruz? Jeb bush? Bernie sanders? Drew? "Most" politicians?

Do you trust that her interests are aligned with the u.s.?


Would you trust her to honor a commitment she made to you?
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CoffeeRunner wrote:
sfox wrote:
It isn't any worse to call Hillary a bitch or cunt than it is to call Obama a dick or a bastard. An insult that happens to include gender doesn't mean someone is being misogynistic. A leader has to expect insults. The stronger the leader, the more the insults fly from the people who aren't getting what they want.


Is cunt even an insult? Because mine's great, I'm very proud of it. Call me cunt all you like, it's a compliment.

This article seemed to address the broader effects of gendered name-calling that Hilary will encounter stepping into what it describes as a "masculine office". But yeah, she gives no fucks about insults. Gender specific insults have more affect on the malleable among us, potentially setting up obstacles on Hilary's every endeavor. To be expected. She's prepared for it.


So first...

Are you a u.s. citizen? Because cunt's pretty bad here but not that bad in U.K.

Secondly, that being said you'd be fine for me calling you a Cunt with venom in my voice in front of your children/nieces/nephews/parent/SO?

If so, yer pretty rare. The females I know personally who have expressed an opinion don't like the word outside of nasty sex. And a couple of them aren't offended by almost anything and they hate "cunt" used disparagingly or as an insult.
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I dunno, but I think if you say it maybe two more times, we'll reach semantic satiation and then we can all move on.
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galad2003 wrote:

I just wish our first female President was a better person. She will go down in history because she is the first and she is just so slimy. I want my girls to look up to someone better.

Just like Obama being the first black President. What a turd - although I like Obama better than Hillary. Sigh. Can't believe I said that. But I wish we would have had someone like Colin Powell as the first black President.
I actually like Obama and think he has done a good job and handled himself well especially in the era of hate we live in now.

Clinton however is as corrupt as they come. When she came to the State Department she flooded the organization with campaign supporters and other political appointees. Those young kids wore fancy suits, made more than 20+ year employees, worked on "special projects" that amounted to nothing, then left without any contribution. The other SecStates did not do the same. She represents old style corruption. Although perhaps that is what is needed to be successful.

She also treated us regular support staff like the mud on her shoes. Can't do anything for her, she doesn't care about you. The type of person who calls security staff an idiots for following regulations when they are out of earshot, but within earshot of the IT staff who might be their buddy. I've known plenty of folks who worked directly with her in support roles when she was Secstate, and met quite a few of her political appointees who chose to work in IT and not policy.

I don't believe for a second that she honestly cares about the middle and lower classes, but that she must fake it to be a Democrat (the same way Trump is faking being a Republican). Frankly she is "The Bitch" as far as human beings go. If I bother to vote, it'll be her or Gary (I'm a Virginia voter so won't matter anyway she's gonna carry that state). But don't believe the hype that she isn't a deplorable human being worthy of our disrespect.
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maxo-texas wrote:


Are you a u.s. citizen? Because cunt's pretty bad here but not that bad in U.K.


Pretty sure it's probably the worst word used here in the UK. (Except for tailored insults such as racial slurs or calling a Corbyn supporter a Blairite.)
 
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Ferretman wrote:
JOan Collins?
 
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sfox wrote:
It isn't any worse to call Hillary a bitch or cunt than it is to call Obama a dick or a bastard. An insult that happens to include gender doesn't mean someone is being misogynistic. A leader has to expect insults. The stronger the leader, the more the insults fly from the people who aren't getting what they want.
Bastard is not gender specific.
 
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BoB3K wrote:
I dunno, but I think if you say it maybe two more times, we'll reach semantic satiation and then we can all move on.


cunt cunt
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Christopher Yaure
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galad2003 wrote:
Isn't it possible some of us dislike Hillary because of who she is and not that she is a woman?


Of course it is. But it would be obtuse not to recognize that some people dislike her becasue she is a woman, just as they dislike Obama for being African-American or Romney for being Mormon. And at least in the case of women or African-Americans, it is often because she is a woman with power, or he is an African-American with power (I am less certain if this parallel applies to Mormonism, but it might).

Thus, when you hear an argument against Clinton, or Obama, or Romney, that would sound silly if stated against a man, or a white, or a Protestant, be aware that it may be driven by discrimination.
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CoffeeRunner wrote:
sfox wrote:
It isn't any worse to call Hillary a bitch or cunt than it is to call Obama a dick or a bastard. An insult that happens to include gender doesn't mean someone is being misogynistic. A leader has to expect insults. The stronger the leader, the more the insults fly from the people who aren't getting what they want.


Is cunt even an insult? Because mine's great, I'm very proud of it. Call me cunt all you like, it's a compliment.

This article seemed to address the broader effects of gendered name-calling that Hilary will encounter stepping into what it describes as a "masculine office". But yeah, she gives no fucks about insults. Gender specific insults have more affect on the malleable among us, potentially setting up obstacles on Hilary's every endeavor. To be expected. She's prepared for it.

Well we will not be calling you that when we play 18xx at BBG con. You also need to give me and Sfox a schedule so we can play.
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