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Subject: So it was ransom after all. rss

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Pete Goch
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So, paying a debt but only paying it if your creditor does something you want is tantamount to paying a ransom?

Interesting.

Can I borrow some money from you?
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J
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Isn't that backwards for a ransom? Normally the release is contingent on the payment, not the other way around...
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Me nah play no 'ide and seek
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jmilum wrote:
Isn't that backwards for a ransom? Normally the release is contingent on the payment, not the other way around...


All I know is, Obama is evil, and Reagan is great.
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J
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I distinctly remember Drew and others here complaining that Obama wasn't doing enough to get back the prisoners and that they weren't part of the nuke deal.

Haters going to Hate.
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Steven Woodcock
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Drew1365 wrote:


Yep.

But everybody (literally everybody I've asked about it) knew that.

This is the most dishonest administration in American history.


Ferret
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G Rowls
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It's the American way you always pay the ransom whilst trying to say you dont pay 'terrorists'.
 
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Wendell
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Ferretman wrote:
Drew1365 wrote:


Yep.

But everybody (literally everybody I've asked about it) knew that.

This is the most dishonest administration in American history.


Ferret


You're confused, we're not discussing Nixon.
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Erik Henry
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Obama's administration: 0 indictments across 0 scandals

Reagan's administration: 27 convictions across 7 different scandals
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Born To Lose, Live To Win
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Erik17 wrote:
Obama's administration: 0 indictments across 0 scandals

Reagan's administration: 27 convictions across 7 different scandals
Wait a minute, that can't be true, look at this expert source:
Ferretman wrote:
This is the most dishonest administration in American history.
Truly, there must be some other explanation.
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Johnny O aka Johnny Soul
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I suppose one could say we were holding their money hostage and Iran paid us to get their money back. They just used a different form of currency.
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jeremy cobert
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Erik17 wrote:
0 scandals


Zero ? Is this that new common core math ?

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Chad Ellis
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Are we really having the conversation it sounds like?

I'm reading the thread and it seems like for some people this was 100% a ransom payment and to others it 100% wasn't. Neither position is correct. This was a negotiation with a lot of different variables. We had money that legitimately belonged to Iran, and we were in a position to hold onto it for as long as we wanted. Iran had people who legitimately should have been released, but they were in a position to hold onto them. Both parties also have a range of other issues they are negotiating and both parties probably wanted both of these issues to go away. So the US agreed to give Iran Iran's money but said only if Iran released the prisoners.

It does raise a similar moral hazard to a straight ransom payment, and it's not absurd to say that it's enough like a ransom in appearance to be a bad decision, but it's silly to treat it as though Iran just grabbed some people and we paid them off, given that no one disputes that Iran had a legitimate claim to the money (the exact amount might be debatable but not the basic claim).
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Pete Goch
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It's was a quid pro quo.
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Erik Henry
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Drew1365 wrote:
Erik17 wrote:
Obama's administration: 0 indictments across 0 scandals

Reagan's administration: 27 convictions across 7 different scandals


This is not actually a defense of the Obama administration's ransom payment, you know.

I was addressing Ferretman's point, not yours. I should have quoted him to make it easier for you to follow like everyone else did.
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Erik Henry
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jeremycobert wrote:
Erik17 wrote:
0 scandals


Zero ? Is this that new common core math ?


There's nothing wrong with Common Core math, but you're right, I can see how that can be misinterpreted.

I should have said:

Obama's administration: 0 scandals led to indictments

Reagan's administration: 7 scandals led to 27 convictions

Reagan obviously had other scandals that led to indictments but either pardons before they stood trial or no convictions, and scandals that didn't lead to indictments. Obama had scandals (and "scandals") that--despite one or two investigations--resulted in no indictments.
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Erik Henry
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Drew1365 wrote:
rules are different for Democrats

Yes, that's the only possible conclusion for why none of these investigations have resulted in an indictment. I can't think of any other possible explanation. It's really weird.
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Les Marshall
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Ferretman wrote:


This is the most dishonest administration in American history.


Ferret


Don't think that word means what you think it means.....unless you think American history started in 2008.
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Junior McSpiffy
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jmilum wrote:
Haters going to Hate.


That is the whitest I have ever heard that said... and I read it. It was THAT WHITE!!!
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Chief Slovenly
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Most dishonest in American history? What the actual fuck?

GWB (remember him? No, of course you don't. He's one of those others the GOP is very busy trying to forget.)
Clinton? No.
Reagan? No.
Nixon? No.
LBJ? No.
Johnson, who also got impeached? Guess not.
Grant??
Buchanan?

Some bullshit hack accused me and all liberals one time of letting the feels rule instead of facts.

Your post stands as a conclusive rebuttal. Christ, get over yourself.
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Lone Locust of the Apocalypse
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bbenston wrote:
Christ, get over yourself.


It's golden rule of rules that he will never learn: "When you are sure it is everyone else and not you...it's you."
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wayne mathias
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I could swear the battle cry was "Don't let them have the money back unless our hostages are released" and much criticism for not making that a condition.

Now the same people are upset that it was a condition after all??



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Chief Slovenly
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Altair IV wrote:
bbenston wrote:
Christ, get over yourself.


It's golden rule of rules that he will never learn: "When you are sure it is everyone else and not you...it's you."


Related: Trump campaign, GOP still not at rock bottom yet.
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Boaty McBoatface
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jeremycobert wrote:
Erik17 wrote:
0 scandals


Zero ? Is this that new common core math ?

OK name 1 indictment.

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Sam I am
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There is a difference between "here's your money back but you can only have it if you release the prisoners" and "here's a bunch of money (or missiles) we did't owe you and we'll trade it for those prisoners (hostages)". I know that this simple application of semantics will be lost on right wingers. As always the right wins fact deficient 30 second arguments because nuance is irrelevant when point scoring opportunities are all that matters... oh, and most Americans have the attention span of a 2 year old so it sometimes works.
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Boaty McBoatface
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I want to know when all those retail outlets will stop blackmailing people into giving them money for goods, surely it's against the law?
 
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