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Subject: Is Myth 2.0 base game worth it? rss

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Rick Salvato
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Hello all,

I've been following this game for some time now and have stopped from pulling the trigger on it after seeing Rahdo's review (which honestly was almost shocking considering the Dice Tower review gave it such high praise, which I watched first).

Now that 2.0 has been out for some time is it worth buying the base game? Will I need any other addons/sets to enjoy it? The base set is down to $60 on the Megacon website so the itch to buy it at that price is very tempting.

I hope Rahdo does another updated review using the 2.0 rules. But until that happens, I'd love to hear some opinions.

Pre-thanks for all your thoughts and opinions!
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Judy Krauss
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IMHO (but note that I love this game), it's worth it and you will get some good and fun play out of it, but (again IMHO) you will later likely want to add to it when the 2.0 extra stuff becomes available (especially the Soulless and Shamblers which mesh well with the mini-boss from that main game, and Orneas).

But if you can find places that are selling 1.0 expansion packs for a reasonable price, picking up some skeleton and rat minions and captains, and maybe some extra orc and insect minions and captains (same as those from the base game) can add fun to the game. The realm tile expansions, the alt gender hero miniatures, and sculpted lairs are cosmetic and not necessary to play, but if you decide you really like the game, they are worth getting.

Your best best would be to buy someones Kickstarter pledge if you can, of course, to get all sorts of stuff at once.

BTW, if you do decide to order the 2.0 base game from the company website, I suggest also getting a pack of the sleeves for each hero because they are nice-looking and really help protect your hero decks from all the shuffling and handling.

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MM
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Rick

My advice is to try and see this firsthand. If not, then watch the play videos from Megacon to see the mechanics of the game and how its played.

The dice tower review on Myth was highly controversial and cost Tom some street cred because of his review. He was personally taught the game by the designers. He never really reviewed the rules or had to figure things out for himself. The 1.0 rules were horrible and since Tom never shared with the community he received help - and said the rules were good, he was roasted. You can see how much difficulty Rhado had with the game in his frustration review/rant.

That's ancient history now, but is sort of the problem with the internet - those videos withstand time. The base game's rules/cards have changed considerably since those reviews (thanks to many folks here on BGG).

Anyway, the game remains highly polarizing. People seem to either love it or hate it with few in between. For that reason, I'd really suggest getting your hands on a demo and experience it firsthand if you can. I hate to see you spend good money on a game that becomes shelf decoration (the box is pretty). I'd also recommend buying just the base and not worry about any extras at this point. You can pick those extra's up later if you really want them.

Most of the folks left here are fans of the game and will probably steer you in the direction of a purchase, so keep that in mind when reading whatever follows this post.

If you do pick this up, there's still a few die hards around that can answer the inevitable questions you'll have on "how do I ..." with Myth.

Here's the start of a video series that I'd suggest checking out to see the "spirit of Myth". Good luck!

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Joshua Nash
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westfall60 wrote:
Hello all,

I've been following this game for some time now and have stopped from pulling the trigger on it after seeing Rahdo's review (which honestly was almost shocking considering the Dice Tower review gave it such high praise, which I watched first).

Now that 2.0 has been out for some time is it worth buying the base game? Will I need any other addons/sets to enjoy it? The base set is down to $60 on the Megacon website so the itch to buy it at that price is very tempting.

I hope Rahdo does another updated review using the 2.0 rules. But until that happens, I'd love to hear some opinions.

Pre-thanks for all your thoughts and opinions!


Like you, I've been following the game for some time. After the initial poor reviews of 1.0, I forgot about it. When 2.0 came out I face it a second look. Boy I'm glad I did!

The game, when approached from the right perspective, is amazing. "The right perspective" recognizes that Myth really, truly is a sandbox game. With the limited structured provided out of the box, you've got to be okay creating your own missions, game lengths, and play time.

Go in open minded and you can enjoy the the tactical, hack 'n slash gameplay.
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Adam Gastonguay
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Dang, $60 is a good price.

I purchased it for full price from their site and I haven't regretted it. Probably my biggest purchase "going out on a limb." I was nervous, but I was happy with my choice. I watched a video on how to play (just one), and when I read through the 2.0 rules, everything made sense. I had no problem just diving in and making adventures with the tiles and not freezing and thinking "How do I start?" like a lot of nay sayers do.

Since then, it's hit my table 10 times, which doesn't seem like much, but each time I probably sat there for at least 4 hours and one time I went for 8 hours straight before I realized I let the day get away from me. It's a damn good time and I have no expansions or anything.

Wait, that's not true, I have the Orc boss, but I haven't used him since he wiped out my part a while back, but I am plotting my revenge once I get a blue item for my Acolyte. Orcpants is going down!
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Brian Torrens
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Like many games, you get out of Myth what you put into it. I started with the 2.0 game and have had a lot of fun with it. I haven't played in a while since I am currently painting all the core game minis (plus an extra set of minions and captains of the base set monsters). I say if you can get it at a good price go for it. You won't be disappointed.
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Joshua Nash
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Brian T wrote:
You get out of Myth what you put into it.


Agreed!

But a word of caution: if you put too much expectation into it, you'll come away disappointed.
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Rob Davis
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I would say to go for it. My group of friends played Myth several times when I first got it, but we did so irregularly in between all of the games we were more seriously invested in. But after a year w/out playing it, we've decided to start it up again in 2 weeks and start a weekly campaign.

We all missed it that much.
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Eric Johnson
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I PMed you, have a full Apprentice pledge with 2.0 materials, custom tuck boxes, and lots of extras I'm looking to sell
 
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Marcus Taylor
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Mistermannindy wrote:
Rick
The dice tower review on Myth was highly controversial and cost Tom some street cred because of his review. He was personally taught the game by the designers. He never really reviewed the rules or had to figure things out for himself. The 1.0 rules were horrible and since Tom never shared with the community he received help - and said the rules were good, he was roasted. You can see how much difficulty Rhado had with the game in his frustration review/rant.


Vassel was caught out in a blatant lie, saying that the rulebook was 'very good' when it's actually considered one of the worst boardgame rulebooks ever. Trying to be polite here, Vassel isn't really a serious reviewer, he's a cheerleader, bigging up whatever is trendy this week.

Rahdo is a serious reviewer, and his review was on the money. You can tell he wanted to like Myth, but he couldn't in good conscience recommend it. He made the point that the game was released in Beta form, using customers as play-testers, and that it needed another year or so of development and rigorous playtesting.

Ancient history now, agreed, but if we don't learn from history, we're doomed to make the same mistakes.
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Marcus Taylor
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JPN38 wrote:
Brian T wrote:
You get out of Myth what you put into it.

But a word of caution: if you put too much expectation into it, you'll come away disappointed.


This, really.

It really depends what you want out of a game. It's also important to understand what it isn't. It's not really an RPG-lite, as there's almost no decisions or storyline to follow. You have to make that stuff up yourself from the bits and pieces of the quests. And it's not really a dungeon crawler because there's no exploration or surprises. Again, you decide what you encounter and what the maps look like.

It's essentially a cooperative tactical minis game, one with lots of good ideas, though it can get grindy and repetitive without lots of extra purchases like other races and minibosses. It has hand management, which is quite innovative but can be frustrating because it's so random. Some people dislike not being able to act in a round.

Some people play it solo, but personally I don't feel it plays well solo, because of the complexity of hand management to act, and that every hero is meant to have synergies with others. But YMMV.

The progression elements are poor; its not a great game if you like 'levelling up'. The 'looting' element is disappointing as you can't keep most of the loot.

The materials are absolutely beautiful; there's tons of cardboard, fantastic minis and a quirky, unique style that makes it feel much different from generic fantasy like Descent. But Descent and Shadows of Brimstone are much sleeker, slicker games, with better progression and storytelling elements (like Descent's structured campaigns and Brimstone's Town Expansion).

The game looks so beautiful you will want to love it. But even in 2.0, you'll have to make up a lot of rules as you go along, and interpret things. Making it your own is very much part of the game - if you enjoy that, you might love this game. It's essentially a 'boardgame creation kit' in many ways. If you want everything spelled out for you, you'd be better off with another game.

The people at BGG are mostly helpful and informative, although many are extremely protective of the game, as often seems to be the case with Kickstarters.

Bear in mind that you'll need to make a serious effort to learn the rules - to set aside time for reading several rulebooks, FAQs, and watching videos. And even then you'll come to the boards with questions. The time required - and the escalating price tag for expansions - is not for the casual gamer.

If you persist with all that, there's some unique and innovative mechanisms here, such as the card decks, the elegant AI, and the organic flow of the combats that drives the game. Every hero really feels different and plays in a unique manner. The whole concept behind 'encountering what you want' requires a paradigm shift for people used to regular boardgames, but it takes a certain skill to build your adventure to meet the requirements of your current quest. There's lots of interesting ideas like this here.

The story elements are kind of weak, but there's teases and hints of a really interesting, offbeat fantasy world, with characters and monsters that really aren't like anything else. Journeyman will supposedly offer us 'modules' that may expand the world and bring in the more story-based, campaign elements that many are clamouring for.

It's certainly not for the faint-hearted or casual player. But it extends an odd siren call to you nonetheless. You keep thinking that there must be an amazing experience buried in there somewhere, if you could only get to it. I'm no fan of MCG's peculiar business practises, but I keep coming back to this unique game, for whatever reason.

Just go in with your eyes open. Read the reviews on BGG, the bad ones as well as the good ones.
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Josh Worley
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Marcus the Ready wrote:
Mistermannindy wrote:
Rick
The dice tower review on Myth was highly controversial and cost Tom some street cred because of his review. He was personally taught the game by the designers. He never really reviewed the rules or had to figure things out for himself. The 1.0 rules were horrible and since Tom never shared with the community he received help - and said the rules were good, he was roasted. You can see how much difficulty Rhado had with the game in his frustration review/rant.


Vassel was caught out in a blatant lie, saying that the rulebook was 'very good' when it's actually considered one of the worst boardgame rulebooks ever. Trying to be polite here, Vassel isn't really a serious reviewer, he's a cheerleader, bigging up whatever is trendy this week.

Rahdo is a serious reviewer, and his review was on the money. You can tell he wanted to like Myth, but he couldn't in good conscience recommend it. He made the point that the game was released in Beta form, using customers as play-testers, and that it needed another year or so of development and rigorous playtesting.

Ancient history now, agreed, but if we don't learn from history, we're doomed to make the same mistakes.


It should be noted that, despite the review, Rahdo still likes Myth and still owns it (he rates it a 7, btw). I think it was GenCon 2014 that he did a summary one day where he spent some time talking to Brian and was just absolutely gushing about how the series will be evolving in the future (Journeyman and ultimately Legend and/or Master).

Rahdo's review was absolutely spot on at the time with 1.0. Most (if not all - it's been a very long time since I watched his runthrough) of those issues were corrected with 2.0.
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David Di Muro
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What Marcus said.

Its a tactical, combat puzzle game that takes at least 3 hours + to get any value out of it in a sitting. It has cools minis, cool art, cool boards, cool abilities and combos. Its dense and complicated. It has cool minis, and cool art - did I say that already?

If you like puzzle heavy combat, with luck mitigation elements, and ameritrash gameplay - then you'll love Myth.
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Dan Renwick
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I mostly just play the base and I enjoy it, although a lot of that is from my own home made adventures. There's more depth and difficult decisions in the basic combat than you'd expect. I also like it as a solo game. When you play with four heroes it's a lot more of a deep, slow, Mage Knight style game than with two heroes, since all the heroes are interacting.

It won't suit a lot of people, though. It's not really the sort of thing you just take out of the box and play. It takes a certain amount of commitment to learn the rules, learn the strengths and weaknesses of the various monsters so you don't wipe on your first few games, and so on.

There are certain games like Descent 2 that might have better mechanics (depending on your tastes) but I don't have the fondness for them than I do for this flawed, awkward but engrossing game.
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David Griffin
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I'm still trying to come up to speed enough in v2.0 (or any version) so that I can teach it to my group. I'm trying to play through some solitaire missions and learn a bit about how each hero works and what mission to pick (or create) for introducing it but haven't gotten there yet. Really hard game to get your mind around.

Version 2's book is more succinct, but it lacks the introductions to the character classes which is a serious omission. Also it lacks a comprehensive illustration of the various tokens that come with the game. It also doesn't tell you which of the quest types you received in v1 and 2 are still supposed to be played. Also, though the v2 book is a little better, there are lots of small areas where the cards raise questions that don't have an answer anywhere (except here maybe).

The game in general doesn't really know what it wants to be -- the thinking gamer's one-shot tactical board game with no real character progression; or the dungeon crawl with character/party progression between adventures. You can't tell which types of quests to play and once you figure that out, you can't figure out which ones are meant to be for beginners and which are meant to be for experts. It's not clear what kind of personal skill or character progression (treasure bag, advanced action cards, gear) are needed for any of the quests or modules.

I'm not trying to be critical, this is a great game. I just think it might be V3 before the whole game is actually properly thought out with a consistent vision as to what kind of game it is and sufficient assistance in the manual for new groups to get up to speed on the rules.

As far as the actual rules are concerned, it doesn't seem to me that much has changed mechanically between V1 and V2. There are minor rules wording changes, some format changes in the cards, and some clarifications. The quests in the game have changed from the more short term quests to the idea of modules or story quests. And some of the satellite classes haven't gotten their v2 updates yet.

I think the game is worth playing v1 AND v2 but judging from my own troubles figuring out how to not be an idiot player, you'll have the same issues no matter what version you use. But the result is likely to be rewarding in either case. Plus this game is gorgeous on the table painted. The whole thing is really unique and amazing and innovative, but unless you are going to learn it from the Megacon employees, stand by for a hard time. Note that Megacon has some great videos to show play, but not NEAR enough of them.
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Rick Salvato
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Thank you all for the great insight and thoughtful opinions of the game. I truly appreciate all of them.

It seems to me as some of you already mentioned, the game's audience is polarized to either loving it or not. I am concerned about the length of the game as well as the learning/teaching curve some of you mentioned. But it truly seems to be a unique system. I'm hoping its one of those games that you get so engrossed in that you don't even notice the massive passage of time.

I ended up finding a used copy with 2.0 rules and cards with a few expansion sets at a VERY reasonable price (but thank you very much for the offer Bastimret!). So once again thank you all for the great comments and stay tuned for the soon to come rules questions from me
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Rob Davis
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westfall60 wrote:
I am concerned about the length of the game as well as the learning/teaching curve some of you mentioned. But it truly seems to be a unique system. I'm hoping its one of those games that you get so engrossed in that you don't even notice the massive passage of time.


The length of time isn't really that bad if you have a group that is actually interested in playing the game, as opposed to chatting with everyone, checking their cellphone, or wandering around the game store. Due to the fact that there's no set order in which the players activate, everyone really needs to be involved and paying attention or else they're going to get skipped and/or slow the game down.

We're getting ready to start a new campaign and I'm really anxious about the new guy in our group. Whenever we play a deck-builder he's the one who never looks at his hand or plans out his turn until it's actually his turn. So we spend an extra few minutes every round waiting for him to figure out what he wants to do. cry

And I'd argue that there really isn't much of a learning curve to the game* if you can get your players to understand that the game just operates differently from most other games. By that I mean that the rules aren't really complicated - it's not like it's 40K or D&D with dozens of rule books and variants - it just doesn't have the structured turn sequence that most other games have. If you can get them to accept that you all have to work together to decide the best course of action, which means always paying attention, then IMO the hard part is over.

* You will still have to learn a lot of stuff as the main guy running the game, but your friends don't need to learn everything.
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Marcus the Ready wrote:
It really depends what you want out of a game. It's also important to understand what it isn't. It's not really an RPG-lite, as there's almost no decisions or storyline to follow. You have to make that stuff up yourself from the bits and pieces of the quests. And it's not really a dungeon crawler because there's no exploration or surprises. Again, you decide what you encounter and what the maps look like.


This is not really accurate, with the Module system the story becone really heavier, there is only 2 available so far (representing maybe 8 hours each to complete). The first one Fury of the revenant was the prototype for the new module format but i personnaly consider it as a module.

I was discussing that on the KS page, but after translating both modules for Kanis and Blackwall expansions, the story part is very interesting and they are litterally fleshing the world of myth but i am wondering who will really read all this out loud, last time we playtested one of the module i did not read everything but after translating it i prefered to summarize a little. Some groups will do it of course but i am really wondering the proportion.
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Dan Renwick
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I was going to write a long story for a module, but I realise that some people aren't interested in that, so I was going to write a TLDR summary for those people too. With my friends, I'd send them the set-up story via email and they could either read it or ignore it and just rely on my TLDR on the day. They always read it, though, because they're bored at work.

For me, a love the idea of MCG creating a long, well-written story to give a game a bit of colour and meaning.


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There seems to be a conflict between the role playing experience that many of us seem to want in these games and the regular board game experience.

For Board games we want to get the stuff out, set it up, and play it in a few hours at most. For role playing games, we want to play a campaign that last for a year. But even in role playing games, we want to break it up into sessions (though there the sessions are typically 4-6 hours).

So in a board game sense, an "adventure" that lasts 24 hours of play can be problematic, though really that isn't as much the problem as an act that lasts 8 right? For board games, playing a module is like playing Twilight Imperium and the trend is toward games that last 1-2 hours (because that is what people have to spend when they get together.

So I think the solution of a module that takes a LONG time is OK but the individual sessions should be set up to last for 2-4 hours tops. My current solution to remembering what I was doing last session is a few shots from my cellphone rather than character sheets but that has some limitations. Maybe we should be thinking about more acts (if necessary) but with a more controlled session play time.
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carbon_dragon wrote:
Maybe we should be thinking about more acts (if necessary) but with a more controlled session play time.


This is pretty much what Myth 1.0 was at the core. The "adventures" as they are now called can be strung together making the duration variable. They even added new "quests" to the JM Pledge Manager to expand the base offering.



I know early on - probably 2 years ago - folks were writing their own quests and posting here on BGG. They might be in the files section if you want to take a look (probably 1.0 format however).
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Even the story quests included in the v1 game were pretty scantily defined with tiny pictures that make it really difficult to know what the story quest intended. They prompted more questions than fun.

Maybe they should have worked on a set of rules for advancement within free form questing (instead of ONLY in story quests).

I know they've been saying that if you fight a boss in a free form quest you should get a title/deck manip reward or something so rules like that. Like for every tile (depending on type) you get X upgrade points. For Y points you could do a deck manipulation and/or a title (or maybe just an ability to keep a gear since a title also has an ability). Or perhaps Z points gives you some treasure bag manipulation. Bosses get you something, maybe minibosses get you something maybe some number of captains, etc.

In other words, some kind of reward system where you could free form quest and get stuff from the accumulation of your efforts.
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The 'holy grail' seems to be some kind of boardgame/RPG-lite hybrid - involved enough to want to play the same characters and develop them, but not too fiddly as to put off casual gamers. WarhammerQuest or the earlier Advanced HeroQuest seem to be the closest thing for many people.

A few games seem to come close, but none of them seem to really nail everything:

Descent is pretty good, save that it's not co-operative, and it's not a dungeon crawl, being essentially a 'rush to victory' with no real exploration elements. Story and progression are pretty good and it scales quite well.

Shadows of Brimstone is very close... Progression and characters are great, there's a strong exploration element and RPG elements like travelling and the Town expansion. But it's a bit swingy, doesn't always scale well, and there's no ongoing story, just random missions. Some find the combat system repetitive.

Myth is... well, it's not a dungeon crawler, it doesn't scale well, progression is all over the place and the RPG elements are extremely limited. The combat system is much deeper than the other games, which makes it harder to play it solo easily. It's a good minis combat game, but the persistent elements are very weak. Maybe the JM and 'modules' will fix this?

There's also the very real problem with Myth, which is that nobody (including MCG) really seems to know what kind of game they want it to be. It's a minis combat game with an RPG skin but little real progression or story. There's all these non-game spinoffs like Slaughterfield, Tavern mode and Dark Frontier that don't tie into the base game.

In general, people seem to want more of a WarhammerQuest experience. We might get a better picture when the JM boxes arrive.

I dunno, if you somehow made a game with Descent's scaling and branching story missions, Brimstone's looting, character progression and RPG Town/travelling elements, and Myth's minis, hand management, combat AI and unique thematics, you'd probably have a perfect game!
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Glad to see you back here more regularly, Marcus. I always enjoy your perspective and how you articulate things.

Marcus the Ready wrote:
The 'holy grail' seems to be some kind of boardgame/RPG-lite hybrid - involved enough to want to play the same characters and develop them, but not too fiddly as to put off casual gamers. WarhmmaerQuest or the earlier Advanced HeroQuest seem to be the closest thing for many people.


This is definitely the case for me. I'll add in the miniature component for me as well as I seem to gravitate towards those games too.

Marcus the Ready wrote:
A few games seem to come close, but none of them seem to really nail everything:

(snip)

Myth is... well, it's not a dungeon crawler, it doesn't scale well, progression is all over the place and the RPG elements are extremely limited.


I agree.

What Myth does have for me is the ability to customize and tell my own story. Thanks to the community, we have every card template and access to artwork. We can make our own content look identical to "official" content and have it sit alongside and comingle. I know, early on, this aspect really appealed to me. Myth felt like a "dungeon crawl" creation tool and spoke to my inner storyteller.

I know this isn't unique to Myth, but it feels like Myth's been designed for this kind of community collaboration/extension. Which I find highly Ironic given McG's general lack of community engagement and deficient people skills. I often wonder what this IP would look like in the hands of a more capable organization.


Marcus the Ready wrote:
The combat system is much deeper than the other games, which makes it harder to play it solo easily. It's a good minis combat game, but the persistent elements are very weak. Maybe the JM and 'modules' will fix this?


I definitely enjoyed the depth here. The cards, coupled with the unique play of individual heroes and reliance on dice all made this feel "different". I agree, the solo aspect isn't easy, but better folks than I seem to really enjoy going that route.

The miniatures and tiles are great (and why I personally had/have such a huge issue with the quality of RECON). I painted the entire base set and had a great time doing so. I really hope, and unbiased reports from GenCon seem to indicate this, that the JM miniatures and components meet/beat the standard set by Myth 1.0.

Persistence has always been an issue with Myth. It was never part of the original design and it shows. IMHO getting any sort of persistent campaign into Myth's framework isn't worth the effort, as it adds a degree of "fiddly" that I just don't appreciate. I think the module approach is the best we can hope for within the framework of the game. I just feel the path to the "holy grail" of boardgame/RPG-lite hybred just doesn't include Myth's DNA. At least not in my opinion.

That's okay by me. Myth "is what it is". Once I appreciated it for what is was, and let go of what it wasn't. My Myth journey became much less disgruntled. cool

Marcus the Ready wrote:
There's also the very real problem with Myth, which is that nobody (including MCG) really seems to know what kind of game they want it to be. It's a minis combat game with an RPG skin but little real progression or story. There's all these non-game spinoffs like Slaughterfield, Tavern mode and Dark Frontier that don't tie into the base game.


A classic example of throwing ideas onto a wall and seeing what sticks. It almost seems like these ideas went from concept to production with little to no play testing. wow

But yeah, I agree with your observation that no one, including McG, really knows what this game is supposed to be. In all seriousness, I'd speculate they feel there's a "core" game there in terms of Adventuring/Questing. I believe that was the original intent of Myth.

I also believe they were so enamored with their own creation that they decided to add component gameplay on top of it and that's how we got elements like, Story Mode/Modules, Slaughterfield, Tavern Mode, Commanders, World Bosses, Dark Frontier (new game, but I'll give you the point here as well), etc.

Some of these modes of play work, some don't (for me), and IMHO the cake doesn't taste better with all that extra icing, sprinkles, decoration, etc.

Maybe this all points to the fact that this product just released prematurely. I think back to Rhado's rant on Myth, where he suggests that the game needed much more design and testing. Having experienced this all first hand, I can't argue with that at all.

Heck ... take Slaughterfield for example. Here's a mode of play that feels a lot like Gauntlet or Diablo with waves of different monsters coming at the heroes. It has nothing to do with the core of the game (even uses different cards), yet somehow the original quests leveraged the mechanic ... and people hated it. It might have worked, given the proper design/testing, but as delivered it was a mess - I ended up removing every quest that had a SF aspect very early on.

Fast forward to 2.0, now that the game has been alpha tested by us, SF has been erased from Adventure mode. Its still around as a mode of play, but clearly one at the bottom of McG's priority list to think about. Heck, they STILL haven't released the 2.0 rules for this confusing mode of play. If I remember correctly BGG user Jude even wrote a set of rules for them (like the JimBob/fan compiled FAQ from the early days - the community writes it). whistle

Marcus the Ready wrote:
In general, people seem to want more of a WarhammerQuest experience. We might get a better picture when the JM boxes arrive.


That comparison does seem to be the case. I found this hobby later in life and missed out on WQ. Everything I've read seems to indicate this IP is closest to the Holy Grail you/we are describing. I'm sure there's a nostalgic element to that game, but given the strong feelings it still conjures up all these years later, that tells me something. I've heard SoB comes close - personally having seen those atrocious miniatures, it wouldn't ever get to my table. I get the comparisons, though.

I remain optimistic that JM can pull together some of our feedback into a more cohesive experience. The early release of "Fury" seems to indicate it will for me. Personally, I'll never play Slaughterfield or Tavern Brawl and will focus on Modules with Adventures sprinkled in.

Assuming JM production hasn't gone off the rails, we may have wave2 in our hands by the end of the year and we'll know if Myth 2.5 is any better than 2.0 soon. Crossing my fingers that the recent McG layoff's and outsourcing of storage and distribution indicate a positive direction for the financial longevity of McG. Like many, I've invested a fair amount into JM and while I expect to see Wave2 at some point, am not convinced Wave3 is a "lock". Too late to do anything now, I suppose.

BUT ... I have good company here on BGG at least! laugh
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David Griffin
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Myth is really the best toy ever ... for the Megacon builders who have played it to death and know every nuance. You can do all kinds of things with it, but for people new to the game, it's easy to read the manual and just sit there wondering what you're supposed to do.

Free form questing, adventures/story quests/modules, slaughterfield, tavern mode etc... as you say a game that doesn't really have a coherent identity. Without this, few people will put in the time to get to the stage where they can actually have as much fun with the game as the Megacon gamers do. If they want this game to "catch on" to a wider audience, they have to pick a mode and make that mode WORK. It has to be an obvious "first" mode you're supposed to learn. It has to have a good manual that walks you through the complicated and unique play. It has to have a progression of SOME kind that allows you to know what to play first and how to get prepared to play later games that require more equipped and/or skilled characters (and players). And some "organized" plays (or perhaps game days) at local game stores where an expert introduces people to the game would be nice.

I think that mode is probably adventures/modules but it could also be free form questing IF we get a way for players to build characters to play in those adventures; either by constructing them right before playing with the appropriate deck manipulations and gear OR by earning upgrade points by playing tiles for various achievements until they naturally reach the necessary levels for taking on a particular adventure -- which might be an occasional thing you do within your free form adventuring.

What do you think? Am I off base here? Free form questing has a lot to recommend it -- choice no other game has and perfect adjustment of how long you're going to play. But if you do it, you'll be starting over every time and how are you going to play those adventures/modules that might require heroes with deck manipulations and gear?
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