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Subject: At what point is there TOO many components? rss

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Chris Ruf
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Acworth
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Caverna and now Feast for Odin. Giant boxes filed with crazy amounts of stuff. I do appreciate the trays to keep things organized and keep setup time down. But at what point is a game just not worth the component load? Because Odin and Caverna are starting to push it in my opinion.

Will the next big Uwe game be packaged in shipping container?
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Florian Trabert
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Will the next big Uwe game be packaged in shipping container? [/q]

Hopefully.
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Grant
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Legend5555 wrote:
Caverna and now Feast for Odin. Giant boxes filed with crazy amounts of stuff. I do appreciate the trays to keep things organized and keep setup time down. But at what point is a game just not worth the component load? Because Odin and Caverna are starting to push it in my opinion.

Will the next big Uwe game be packaged in shipping container?

The presence of a massive number of components needs to be justified by how the game uses them, it is not objectively good or bad. It remains to be seen which it may be for Odin. We shall see.....
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Colm McCarthy
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Legend5555 wrote:
Caverna and now Feast for Odin. Giant boxes filed with crazy amounts of stuff.


At least they are for multiple players. Fields of Arle has the same sized box for a 1-2 player game

The setup verges on the ridiculous, but I have yet to find any components in his games that I would call superfluous.
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Duarte
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His next game will be a complex game of life choices, with a very low luck aspect.

You'll have a modular board of things/ways to build your path and (or not) cross paths with other players.
You might wanna study, there are pieces and boards for that. You might wanna be a criminal, there are pieces and boards for that.
You might wanna be a cop. If a player is a criminal, you might interact with it in some ways, but you'll need to find him first.
You'll have hidden information (this mean screens probably), because if everyone knows that you're a criminal, you wont be a very good one. You might want to be an artist, if you got a talent.

You'll start at age 15 with a few characteristics to your personality, of your choice, that might help you in the future in some paths (because before 15, you don't really matter), living in your parents house until you leave or they kick you out.

Then you'll have to get money to find a new place to live (new boards because you can get different types of places, depending on the money you have). Before that happens you might want to prepare for it. Maybe you wanna get easy money. Maybe you wanna risk robing it. Maybe you discover a talent for a very lucrative path.
Maybe you choose to submit yourself to "shortcuts" in life, that might give you some things, but might make you loose other things because of your poor/odd/dangerous/shameful choices.
You'll want to get hobbies, set in numerous different places (boards).
You'll need/want girlfriend and eventually kids, and all the stuff they might need.
You might want other things/choices that might give sense of fulfillment and/or happiness.
You'll need to be healthy or you'll live a short life. But that might be your thing, live fast and die young.
Maybe you'll get hit by the low luck thing and an event kills you. And this is just a part of it.

All of this will translate into negative and positive points when you die. You will keep track of everything with tokens and other pieces.
The flowchart of choices that you have for the game, is actually a small book.

There will be 1 box for all the boards, and one box for cards, tokens and pieces, and a bag for the book. You'll need a trolley to take it all home. Or maybe you just don't buy it.

Life Choices, what's yours?
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Chris Ruf
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Acworth
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Sorry, i'm not trying to imply there are superfluous components. Just commenting and making light of the fact that Uwe's heavier games have A LOT, like, a lot a lot, of stuff.
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Colm McCarthy
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My wife refers to the setup of any Rosenberg or Feld game as "the bullshit dance" as she finds all of the components and setup rules ridiculous

Thankfully she doesn't play wargames
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I actually think Fields of Arle is a bit lacking in component terms. Would have preferred a deck of Occupation-esque cards and double the amount of building tiles. Still a great game though. I bought a plastic component storage box and setup seems pretty straightforward to me.
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Chris Smith
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Solihull
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I guess the point at which there are too many components is when I cant be bothered taking it to game nights any more (This had happened with Legendary for me, too much stuff and too lazy to split it).

But as others said, so long as bits are used in an effective way more components is fine. Particularly for things like Caverna where it results in the game being super easy to teach (because you can visibly see what you'll be taking from spaces)
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Kristi S
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Round Rock
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And despite the massive amount of components, including tons of wooden meeples and nice thick cardboard, the price on his games equals or is less than many with lesser components!
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Ruben
Netherlands
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skybreak wrote:
I actually think Fields of Arle is a bit lacking in component terms. Would have preferred a deck of Occupation-esque cards and double the amount of building tiles. Still a great game though. I bought a plastic component storage box and setup seems pretty straightforward to me.


There is an expension announces for 2017, maybe some cards but certainly buildings
 
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Paul Bauman
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If Le Havre had been designed today, there probably would have been different wood bits for each resource. I actually wish he would pare back on some of the bits and use nicely illustrated cardboard counters. Lighter, cheaper, more stackable, and can look just as nice on the board if done properly.
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secoAce -
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El Rubinio wrote:
There is an expension announces for 2017, maybe some cards but certainly buildings

Ooohhh....do you have a link to the announcement?
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Bob Boberson
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My motto: 'As a general rule more components are cool'.

Uwe's games in particular just wouldn't be as fun if there weren't all the stone/cows/sheep etc.

In the case of Caverna though the high component count has a lot to do with the fact that it accommodates 7 players. That's insane imo. I can't even begin to imagine how long, how big of a table you'd need, and how potentially chaotic playing Caverna with 7 players would be. I made a foam core insert for my Caverna, and arranged all the tiles alphabetically and/or by colour in these inserts, and so don't have to lay them out. I also use the furnishing tile list from here on BGG instead of using the boards with those 48 tiles. In this way setting up Caverna isn't too bad.

Very much looking forward to Odin, and right now my opinion is the more components the better! I've had some cool conversations while setting up and putting away components in board games.



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Phillip Wood
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secoAce wrote:
El Rubinio wrote:
There is an expension announces for 2017, maybe some cards but certainly buildings

Ooohhh....do you have a link to the announcement?


Ask and you shall receive. Sometimes.

Re: What About a Three-Player Variant?
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Sumit K
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Frohike wrote:
If Le Havre had been designed today, there probably would have been different wood bits for each resource. I actually wish he would pare back on some of the bits and use nicely illustrated cardboard counters. Lighter, cheaper, more stackable, and can look just as nice on the board if done properly.


I don't think Uwe decides if something should be counters or bits. Seems like a publisher decision.

What I find interesting is the wood and stone from Feast are the same as Caverna but the publisher is different (Zman vs Mayfair)
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David Luchetti
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gain wrote:
Frohike wrote:
If Le Havre had been designed today, there probably would have been different wood bits for each resource. I actually wish he would pare back on some of the bits and use nicely illustrated cardboard counters. Lighter, cheaper, more stackable, and can look just as nice on the board if done properly.


I don't think Uwe decides if something should be counters or bits. Seems like a publisher decision.

What I find interesting is the wood and stone from Feast are the same as Caverna but the publisher is different (Zman vs Mayfair)

For the most part there are only a few companies that make the physical board games and game components.

Here's a neat, short, documentary about it:

https://vimeo.com/45796947
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Greg S
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I think Uwe has secretly invested in all the companies making custom game inserts, and is diligently creating demand for them.
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David G. Cox Esq.
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Legend5555 wrote:
Sorry, i'm not trying to imply there are superfluous components. Just commenting and making light of the fact that Uwe's heavier games have A LOT, like, a lot a lot, of stuff.


I am more bothered by large game boxes that have a lot of air in them.


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Geoff Paulsen

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I feel that Uwe has crossed this line already with games like Feast for Odin and Le Harve.
I love Glass Road and Agricola, and Caverna. So my vote is somewhere between those games.
Glass Road really cleverly keeps the # of bits small by using the Rondal.
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Grant
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geoffpaulsen wrote:
I feel that Uwe has crossed this line already with games like Feast for Odin

Oh, have you played it? What about it makes you feel that way?

Quote:
...and Le Harve.

That is odd, but maybe it's to do with your storage method? Le Havre is one of the easiest games to manage bits-wise if you just use containers like this:


You just take them out of the box and plop them on the board. Easier to deal with than Agricola.
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David Luchetti
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geoffpaulsen wrote:
I feel that Uwe has crossed this line already with games like Feast for Odin and Le Harve.
I love Glass Road and Agricola, and Caverna. So my vote is somewhere between those games.
Glass Road really cleverly keeps the # of bits small by using the Rondal.

Yeah. Glass Road is by far my favorite Uwe game. Love it! I'm really looking forward to Black Forest!
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Greg
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Since we're getting what our family calls "furry cows" in this game, we were all crestfallen to see them show up as counters/tiles rather than see the publisher push the envelope with cow-meeples yet again. The cows in Fields of Arle are fantastic.

Forget the Moose token.

 
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Michael Young
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Legend5555 wrote:
Caverna and now Feast for Odin. Giant boxes filed with crazy amounts of stuff. I do appreciate the trays to keep things organized and keep setup time down. But at what point is a game just not worth the component load? Because Odin and Caverna are starting to push it in my opinion.

Will the next big Uwe game be packaged in shipping container?


There's a lot to punch! However, the included storage bins honestly take up about half the space and reduce set up ----SIGNIFICANTLY----. I'll personally deal with a box that's about 5" for that. Not a ton of wood inside, just lots and lots and lots of punched cardboard.
 
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Others have touched on it - but HOW the components are used is much more important than HOW MANY. The worst affect is on setup timem, though I highly recommend plano boxes as sorting tools for his games. Fields of Arle sets up in just a couple minutes for me with a plano box. Teardown is even faster.

But I'm off topic. With Uwe, there are tons of pieces but I never really feel like he's made a "fiddly" game. The mechanics are graceful and simple. Place worker here ---> Do thing on space ---> grab/spend appropriate resources. The lines of what goes where are usually intuitive with him.... you turn in the cow, you get food and leather. His decisions just make sense.

Compare this with a game like Robinson Crusoe. Holy hell. Okay.. so... first you flip this... then you roll that... count these up... wait, did I remember that other thing?... okay now we have to eat food... okay now roll weather dice...

Robinson Crusoe didn't have anywhere near the number of pieces of some of Uwe's larger works, but it felt so much worse. I spent all this effort moving stuff around and none of it felt like I was playing a game. Instead, I felt like the fuel that kept the machine on my table running, like I was the engine and the game was what I was powering. Maybe some people are into that, but it wasn't for me.

Sid Meier has a saying that "the game should never have more fun than the player". In the end, I think Uwe does this really well. Sure, there's a bunch of pieces, but I don't feel like I'm doing work with those pieces, I feel like there's POSSIBILITY in them.
 
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