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Vast: The Crystal Caverns» Forums » Rules

Subject: Knight / Thief on same space as Dragon, and Dragon power limit? rss

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David Fenton
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A few questions:

1. Is the tile a Dragon is on considered "adjacent" for purpose of using powers (like claw)?

2. If a Knight starts on the same space as a surfaced Dragon, does she have to attack it (as an encounter)? The Knight normally can't ENTER the space without attacking (and having high enough strength), but what if the Knight attacks the Dragon and it doesn't move, or it ends its movement on the Knight's space?

3. Can the Dragon use a single power multiple times (i.e. can you use Wing multiple times in a turn)? Rules say you can use any "number of powers listed on board", but doesn't clarify if that means "number of [different] powers", or "number of powers [total]". For the Cave's Omens, it's explicitly stated you can use an omen any number of times, but not so for the Dragon powers.

4. Are dragon power cards public knowledge? I'd assume they aren't, but just checking (since the Cave omens are).
 
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Kyle
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dsdhornet wrote:
1. Is the tile a Dragon is on considered "adjacent" for purpose of using powers (like claw)?
Claw hits based on what you roll on the die, and may or may not hit the Dragon's space.

Assuming you mean powers like Slap or Swat, "adjacent" does mean one of the four spaces directly next to the Dragon's current space, not the space the Dragon is in.

Quote:
2. If a Knight starts on the same space as a surfaced Dragon, does she have to attack it (as an encounter)? The Knight normally can't ENTER the space without attacking (and having high enough strength), but what if the Knight attacks the Dragon and it doesn't move, or it ends its movement on the Knight's space?
If the Dragon is surfaced, she must attack it if possible. See Below

(I'm not sure why she wouldn't want to even if it was an option, because if the Dragon is already on the surface it's almost certainly going to win within the next turn or two if she doesn't intervene.)

Quote:
3. Can the Dragon use a single power multiple times (i.e. can you use Wing multiple times in a turn)? Rules say you can use any "number of powers listed on board", but doesn't clarify if that means "number of [different] powers", or "number of powers [total]". For the Cave's Omens, it's explicitly stated you can use an omen any number of times, but not so for the Dragon powers.
You can use any powers you want as often as you want, provided you have the symbols to use them.

Quote:
4. Are dragon power cards public knowledge? I'd assume they aren't, but just checking (since the Cave omens are).
No, they're not. Other players can see how many cards you have, but won't know which symbols you have until you use them.
 
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David Fenton
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Woelf wrote:
If the Dragon is surfaced, she must attack it if possible.

(I'm not sure why she wouldn't want to even if it was an option, because if the Dragon is already on the surface it's almost certainly going to win within the next turn or two if she doesn't intervene.)

Good point on the "why" question, but if for some reason the Knight didn't want to, does "must attack it if possible" mean that they must A) add cubes to increase Strength to a point where they can, and B) attack as many times as possible? Or can they deliberately not add enough Strength cubes (so attacking is "not possible"), so that they can perform other actions instead.

An example I could see would be if the Knight can't kill the Dragon this turn and is concerned that they might be killed by Goblins before they can win (i.e. want to run away and intercept the Dragon further from the Goblins). Or maybe they need to try to pick-up a Treasure (in hopes of getting the Mighty Axe), or earn Grit to gain enough cubes for multiple attacks in future turns instead of attacking once now.
 
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Kyle
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dsdhornet wrote:
Woelf wrote:
If the Dragon is surfaced, she must attack it if possible.

(I'm not sure why she wouldn't want to even if it was an option, because if the Dragon is already on the surface it's almost certainly going to win within the next turn or two if she doesn't intervene.)

Good point on the "why" question, but if for some reason the Knight didn't want to, does "must attack it if possible" mean that they must A) add cubes to increase Strength to a point where they can, and B) attack as many times as possible? Or can they deliberately not add enough Strength cubes (so attacking is "not possible"), so that they can perform other actions instead.
After a little discussion with Patrick - The rule as written only says that she must attack if she wants to enter the tile, not if she's already there, so if the player really wanted to move away instead of attacking, they could.


The "why" doesn't hold up, though. If the Dragon is at 11 Wakefulness (3 armor) she only needs her two starting cubes to take a swing at it, and only a third cube if it's at 12 or above (4 armor). Any additional cubes beyond that, which she is all-but-certain to have at such a late stage in the game, will provide additional encounters to keep swinging away. That's going to be far more efficient and effective than anything she could hope to gain by running away and coming back later.
 
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David Fenton
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If the Knight places a cube on Mighty Axe to get +1 Strength, can she discard it on the Dragon's turn (if the Dragon enters her tile) to do double damage?

The way I'm seeing it is the Knight got separated (maybe via Wrath) and the Dragon is at 12 Wakefullness (4 armor) with 2 health. The Knight has 5 cubes. She places 3 cubes on Strength (to have Str 4) and one on Mighty Axe. She only just has enough Move to make it to the Entrance tile and place a Shield (to avoid being swept off). If the Dragon lands on the Entrance tile and triggers an attack, can the Knight discard the cube to do extra damage (since she had previously placed the cube during her turn)?

Or can the cube only be discarded during the Knight's turn?

[edited due to missing that +1 Str only applied during Knight's turn]
 
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David Fenton
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Anyone?
 
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Ethan Furman
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If the Dragon moves on to the Knight's tile the Knight attacks, and since the Knight is attacking it makes sense to me that she would be able to discard the cube for an extra point of damage.

However, since it is not her turn she wouldn't get the +1 strength bonus.
 
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David Fenton
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stoneleaf wrote:
If the Dragon moves on to the Knight's tile the Knight attacks, and since the Knight is attacking it makes sense to me that she would be able to discard the cube for an extra point of damage.

However, since it is not her turn she wouldn't get the +1 strength bonus.

That's how I see it. It means a Knight could sit on the entrance with Shield, Mighty Axe and Strength of 4, and have a 50% shot of killing a Dragon with 1 or 2 health whenever the Dragon tries to escape. Though I suppose that the 50% chance at least gives the Dragon a chance (since I don't believe there's any way for the Knight to have >4 Strength on the Dragon's turn).

Can we confirm that the Might Axe's extra wound only works if the first attack hits (center tile on die)? The wording is a bit ambiguous, since it can be used "when attacking" (meaning it might work even if the roll fails), but then uses the term "another cube" (implying that a cube might have to be taken first?).
 
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Kyle
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dsdhornet wrote:
Can we confirm that the Might Axe's extra wound only works if the first attack hits (center tile on die)? The wording is a bit ambiguous, since it can be used "when attacking" (meaning it might work even if the roll fails), but then uses the term "another cube" (implying that a cube might have to be taken first?).
The initial attack has to hit in order to add the additional damage.
 
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David Fenton
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Kyle, is the interpretation that we can discard the Mighty Axe cube during the Dragon's turn correct?
 
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Kyle
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After some discussion...

Play it as written. If the Knight has a cube sitting on the Axe when the surfaced Dragon enters her space, and her automatic attack hits, she CAN discard the cube for the extra damage.


Cubes placed on treasures like the Axe are always open information, so the risk of extra damage is known to the Dragon before it enters her space.
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Patrick Leder
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I think its worth mentioning I tried to keep interrupts in the game to a minimum. This is why side-quests are on your turn only, the one secret that impacts other people's turns is played face up. This follows that spirit since it has to be communicated on the Knight's turn.

The Cave obviously is an exception having to play passively on the other player's turn, but that is at pretty specific moments and the interruption is at specific moments in the game not randomly played from the Cave's hand.

I wonder if there is an annoying design for a hero, that participates in everyone else's turn.
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