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Tide of Iron» Forums » General

Subject: Op Fire Timing rss

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Nick Dotzenrod
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I think in the rules it specifies after each hex a player moves, he has to allow the opponent to op fire if desired.

In my mind, its a move "want to op fire?" thinks about it "no", moves to next hex "want to op fire?" thinks about it "no" etc.

Does the moving player have to notify the opponent when he as reached his final hex? Thus guaranteeing the opponent a chance to op fire?

Or can he decide to end his movement once the opponent say no to op fire, even though the opponent would have chosen to op fire, if he knew this would be the last hex of movement.

Hopefully this question made sense...
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Kevin Chapman
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You don't have to notify your opponent in advance that it's your last move. If you stop moving after he/she passes on op fire, the chance is lost.
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Nick Dotzenrod
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Ok thanks!
 
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Chris Friend
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Cooorrect.
 
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Kristopher
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bassman211 wrote:

Or can he decide to end his movement once the opponent say no to op fire, even though the opponent would have chosen to op fire, if he knew this would be the last hex of movement.

Hopefully this question made sense...


OOOohhhh, I never thought about using it this way. I always just announced what hex I was moving to, to avoid the "op fire? op fire? op fire?" constant questioning, and assuming the opponent would be firing at the best possible ... opportunity.

Never thought about deception.

Of course, kind of tough to do when you solo it primarily....
 
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Marcus A
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Krieghund wrote:
You don't have to notify your opponent in advance that it's your last move. If you stop moving after he/she passes on op fire, the chance is lost.

True—and don’t reveal anything you don’t need to.

Speaking of Op Fire and not revealing your intentions, the rules implicitly require a player, when activating a unit, to announce which type of action will be performed. Sometimes it’s immediately clear, such as Concentrated Fire, other times, it’s not clear—and probably should remain that way for a time—such as with Fire and Movement or an Assault.

I cannot think of a good gameplay reason why a player, before moving into a new hex, would reveal which of the three types of movement actions was decided upon; Advance, Fire and Movement or Assault. The moving player could simply state initially, this action is a move action. The specific move action declaration would need to be revealed before any firing, of course, so all players would know how to resolve the attack. The issue here is when the declaration should be made.

In any case, it’s the responsibility of both players to ensure the number of hexes moved through by a particular active unit does not exceed the allowable limit for the chosen action. That can be verified just as easily right before firing as it can right before moving. And the former seems a closer approximation to actual combat than the latter, without a downside to gameplay that I can see.

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Hss Hss
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Yes, this is a little odd-ball, which makes it tricky. You want to wait for him to come to point blank range, risking him stopping not being able to fire at him at all...
 
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Gary Logs
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RomanLegions wrote:
Krieghund wrote:
You don't have to notify your opponent in advance that it's your last move. If you stop moving after he/she passes on op fire, the chance is lost.

True—and don’t reveal anything you don’t need to.

Speaking of Op Fire and not revealing your intentions, the rules implicitly require a player, when activating a unit, to announce which type of action will be performed. Sometimes it’s immediately clear, such as Concentrated Fire, other times, it’s not clear—and probably should remain that way for a time—such as with Fire and Movement or an Assault.

I cannot think of a good gameplay reason why a player, before moving into a new hex, would reveal which of the three types of movement actions was decided upon; Advance, Fire and Movement or Assault. The moving player could simply state initially, this action is a move action. The specific move action declaration would need to be revealed before any firing, of course, so all players would know how to resolve the attack. The issue here is when the declaration should be made.

In any case, it’s the responsibility of both players to ensure the number of hexes moved through by a particular active unit does not exceed the allowable limit for the chosen action. That can be verified just as easily right before firing as it can right before moving. And the former seems a closer approximation to actual combat than the latter, without a downside to gameplay that I can see.



I see your point in rules not clearly stating to announce actions up front, but in the last para of F&M section it describes having already declared it as an action before the activation is completed. Similarly in Assault section. I believe the intent is to announce action choice up front.

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Marcus A
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Grand Stone wrote:
Krieghund wrote:
You don't have to notify your opponent in advance that it's your last move. If you stop moving after he/she passes on op fire, the chance is lost.
Yes, this is a little odd-ball, which makes it tricky. You want to wait for him to come to point blank range, risking him stopping not being able to fire at him at all...

Yes, it is tricky and it’s tricky in the proper way—in the same way moving against an enemy position in a battle is tricky. It creates questions in the mind of attacker and defender alike. Should I shoot now or wait a little longer to get a better shot? In any case, in my view, the rule is sound on this point.

Which brings us to the other point.

ncree wrote:
RomanLegions wrote:
Speaking of Op Fire and not revealing your intentions, the rules implicitly require a player, when activating a unit, to announce which type of action will be performed.
I see your point in rules not clearly stating to announce actions up front, but in the last para of F&M section it describes having already declared it as an action before the activation is completed. Similarly in Assault section. I believe the intent is to announce action choice up front.

Yes, as I mentioned and you confirmed, the rules implicitly require a player (whose turn it is) to first announce which specific action is being taken—even a movement action. Below is one of the rules you cited…

Tide of Iron NW, Rules of Play: Fire and Movement, Pg 10 wrote:
A player who declares a Fire and Movement action may decide not to have the active unit attack during the activation, but the unit still receives the movement point penalty.

This is a fascinating rule which has the effect of both limiting flexibility on the part of the moving unit and simultaneously retaining some.

It limits flexibility in that it eliminates the possibility of an attack from a unit declaring an Advance and it reduces, in every case, the movement points of units declaring an Assault or a Fire and Movement action.

The rule necessarily considers that a moving unit may be damaged or weakened from Op Fire, which has the potential to mitigate (or render impossible) the initial intended attack. Alternatively, perhaps the unit was counting on moving through an obstacle, such as a minefield, and staying in reasonably good shape to deliver an attack but, alas, it wasn’t to be.

But more significantly, this rule retains flexibility in that the moving unit is not committed, by rule, to complete either an Assault or Fire and Movement action after it’s begun—for any reason.

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