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The War: Europe 1939-1945» Forums » Rules

Subject: Norway learning scenario rss

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Robin Lapinou
France
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Hi,

I gave a look at the 2nd step of my learning tonight, and I have many questions about the naval rules (I have already read the other topics about that her and it helped, but some are left):

1/ Germany starts with 3 breakdown units (an INF, a PARA and a MECH)
Rule 7.5 says a fleet can transport a unit or it's breakdown equivalents. Can I embark these 3 units in a single fleet ?
I yes, I assume I can drop one of them in Bergen and the other in Narvik (provided I do not get sunk)

2/ If I have 2 or more NAval units in a same port, can I choose to treat them as several forces (for example to get multiple interception rolls)?

3/ How do I provide air support to my fleets ? If German fleet sails through Danish north sea on their way to Narvik/Bergen, and are intercepted there, how can the air units in Kiel join the fight ? by counter-intercepting the British intercepting fleets ? So in that case the interception range is not taken into account, only the one sea are range ?
If yes, does it work the same if my fleets are intercepted by air units only? Can I then counter-intercept, if I have air units adjacent to the sea area where the interception occurs, whatever the distance in hexes ?
If not I must say I don't see how to play this game so far...

4/I have already asked in another post but am still not sure: how many interceptions can a single fleet realize (not attempt and fail, actually fight them) during the oponnent's turn ? one ? or any number ?

5/ I saw you said in another post the the Narvik box can be accessed through Feroes sea area, so guarding the Norwegian sea area with German air units would not be enough to protect Narvik from Allies counter-offensive. Right ?

6/ In that case, the only way for Germany to win this scenario (other than relying on Anglo-French bad luck) is to send one Air unit to Bergen and another to Narvik.
The one to Bergen could stage there at the end of 1st impulse if Oslo is taken.
The other one has to been stratmoved to Narvik by a fleet, which means I must keep one of the fleet unactivated to stratmove it there. But I have only 2 fleets and I need one to invade Oslo or Bergen, and only one Evasion chit. So I must have missed something, or the scenario is very hard for Germany ?

7/ about rebasing naval units: the rules say they must go back to their port of origin after their mission. Is it not possible to rebase them in another port in range ?
But changing base does not count as mission, so they could rebase AFTER their mission, right ?

8/ same question about air units

9/ How many fleet is a depleted NAC worth in Naval combat ?

That's a lot of questions, but thank you in advance
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Joe Pilkus
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Robin,

I'm on holiday, but I'll take a stab at some of these questions.

1. Given the number of Fleets, you'll need to have them efficiently move the breakdown units...otherwise you can't get enough units into Norway to win.

2. No. All Naval units are dealt with as the same force...yoy may not divide them among missions.

3. Yes...it's all about interception. Remember, air units automatically intercepts I within range.

4.So, this can be a bit confusing...your Fleet may conduct any number of interception attempts. If you attempt, and fail an interception against one enemy Fleet, you may attempt another one against another enemy fleet.

5-9. Too complex for this writing. More later...

Joe
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Ernie Copley
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Agabdir wrote:
Hi,

I gave a look at the 2nd step of my learning tonight, and I have many questions about the naval rules (I have already read the other topics about that her and it helped, but some are left):

1/ Germany starts with 3 breakdown units (an INF, a PARA and a MECH)
Rule 7.5 says a fleet can transport a unit or it's breakdown equivalents. Can I embark these 3 units in a single fleet ?
I yes, I assume I can drop one of them in Bergen and the other in Narvik (provided I do not get sunk)

2/ If I have 2 or more NAval units in a same port, can I choose to treat them as several forces (for example to get multiple interception rolls)?

3/ How do I provide air support to my fleets ? If German fleet sails through Danish north sea on their way to Narvik/Bergen, and are intercepted there, how can the air units in Kiel join the fight ? by counter-intercepting the British intercepting fleets ? So in that case the interception range is not taken into account, only the one sea are range ?
If yes, does it work the same if my fleets are intercepted by air units only? Can I then counter-intercept, if I have air units adjacent to the sea area where the interception occurs, whatever the distance in hexes ?
If not I must say I don't see how to play this game so far...

4/I have already asked in another post but am still not sure: how many interceptions can a single fleet realize (not attempt and fail, actually fight them) during the oponnent's turn ? one ? or any number ?

5/ I saw you said in another post the the Narvik box can be accessed through Feroes sea area, so guarding the Norwegian sea area with German air units would not be enough to protect Narvik from Allies counter-offensive. Right ?

6/ In that case, the only way for Germany to win this scenario (other than relying on Anglo-French bad luck) is to send one Air unit to Bergen and another to Narvik.
The one to Bergen could stage there at the end of 1st impulse if Oslo is taken.
The other one has to been stratmoved to Narvik by a fleet, which means I must keep one of the fleet unactivated to stratmove it there. But I have only 2 fleets and I need one to invade Oslo or Bergen, and only one Evasion chit. So I must have missed something, or the scenario is very hard for Germany ?

7/ about rebasing naval units: the rules say they must go back to their port of origin after their mission. Is it not possible to rebase them in another port in range ?
But changing base does not count as mission, so they could rebase AFTER their mission, right ?

8/ same question about air units

9/ How many fleet is a depleted NAC worth in Naval combat ?

That's a lot of questions, but thank you in advance


Hello, Robin - in order:

1)yes; and yes;

2) no, everyone beginning a mission, or an interception,
in the same port is treated as part of the same naval force;

3) air units can automatically intercept naval units in a Sea Area adjacent to their airbase. They only have a one Sea Area range, but the good news is that it's automatic (no need for an interception roll). The number of hexes from Kiel to the intercepting British Fleets is not relevant - air units' interception range is one Sea Ares, regardless of the number of hexes involved. Thus air units in Kiel can intercept Allied naval units anywhere in the West Baltic or the Danish North Sea Areas. So if one or more German invasion Fleets are intercepted in the Danish North Sea by Allied Fleets, the German air units in Kiel will counter-intercept the British Fleets. Unlike naval units, air units do not have to roll to intercept.

4) One;

5) well, sort of - in the (very short, abbreviated) Norway Scenario, you are correct in the sense that you can't stratmove German air after taking it, as there are no stratmoves in the little Norway scenario. In the full campaign game, the Germans will seize Narvik, and then stratmove German air units to it. In the full campaign game, those air units will indeed help repel an Allied invasion. In the Norway scenario, you have to do it a little differently (see below).

6) multiple questions: once you take Oslo, Norway is under German control. Thus a German air unit can do a Second Impulse staging through Bergen to Narvik, so you'd end up with a ground unit and an air unit in Narvik at the end of the German Ops Segment. So no, you don't need to keep one Fleet inactivated, and in any case, an Invasion Zone covers only three contiguous Sea Areas (see rules section 7.7.2). Thus one German Fleet can invade the Norwegian coast from Oslo to Bergen; the second German Fleet will invade Narvik.

7) Well, no, naval units rebase in Step 6D of the Operations Segment (see the SOP cards). If they haven't performed any other mission, they can stratmove to a new base...but that's assuming you are playing the full campaign game. As previously noted, there are no stratmoves I the Norway Scenario. So the only time you can rebase a naval unit is step 6D (or 11D if you are the Allies) of the Ops Segment.

8) air units are different: they may stage up to three hops (see rules section 11.2.1.1) before First Impulse, and again before Second Impulse;

9) a depleted NAC is worth nothing in air-to-air combat, and zero in air-to-sea combat; an undepleted CV/NAC is worth one Fleet (see air-to-sea table 7.9.9).

Hope this helps,

ernie
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Joe Pilkus
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Thanks, ernie! I couldn't type that much on my phone...hahaha!

Cheers,
Joe
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Robin Lapinou
France
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Great . Thank you Ernie!

Just a few more and I hope I'm done with that scenario :

10/ How does air units stratmove to Narvik work ? I mean What is the distance in hexes between Bergen or Trondheim and Narvik ?

11/ On the Alies operation segment, the idea is to conduct a common invasion with French and English together. Do we consider that all units of an alliance are activate at the same time and follow the SOP step by step together ?
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Ernie Copley
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Agabdir wrote:
Great . Thank you Ernie!

Just a few more and I hope I'm done with that scenario :

10/ How does air units stratmove to Narvik work ? I mean What is the distance in hexes between Bergen or Trondheim and Narvik ?

11/ On the Alies operation segment, the idea is to conduct a common invasion with French and English together. Do we consider that all units of an alliance are activate at the same time and follow the SOP step by step together ?


Hi Robin - in order:

1) stratmoves can be of unlimited length; I haven't defined the number of hexes to Narvik, but as per 8.8.8, it is considered just north of the northern map board edge, which is why an air unit could stage there; remember that stratmoves only apply to the campaign games, not the Norway scenario;

2) the Allies will both activate at the same time, and go through the same steps on the SOP at the same time. But they are activated by their own separate LE chits. Note that there's a bit of errata in the published Scenario #2 text - France should have an RLE (which allows for amphibious invasions), not an LLE (which would not allow an amphibious invasion).

Hope this helps,

ernie
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Ernie Copley
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The Professor wrote:
Robin,

I'm on holiday, but I'll take a stab at some of these questions.

1. Given the number of Fleets, you'll need to have them efficiently move the breakdown units...otherwise you can't get enough units into Norway to win.

2. No. All Naval units are dealt with as the same force...yoy may not divide them among missions.

3. Yes...it's all about interception. Remember, air units automatically intercepts I within range.

4.So, this can be a bit confusing...your Fleet may conduct any number of interception attempts. If you attempt, and fail an interception against one enemy Fleet, you may attempt another one against another enemy fleet.

5-9. Too complex for this writing. More later...

Joe


Hi Joe - thanks for stepping in. I appreciate it

best,

ernie
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Joe Pilkus
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No problem, Admiral!

I think that I've solved the e-mail problem I experienced the past few days, so expect to hear from me regarding the last two scenarios soon.

Cheers,
Joe
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Ernie Copley
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The Professor wrote:
No problem, Admiral!

I think that I've solved the e-mail problem I experienced the past few days, so expect to hear from me regarding the last two scenarios soon.

Cheers,
Joe


Hi Joe - Good! I look forward to it,

bst,

ernie
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Robin Lapinou
France
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Hello all,

I am very happy to see all of you being so keen on and efficient in, answering my newbie's questions ... So I will push my advantage and keep asking more and more:

1/Can I rebase air units providing OAS in the hex that I just conquered ?

2/ Rules 23.1 says that Norway will surrender "immediately" if Oslo is taken. So assuming I invade Oslo with a German amphibious landing including OAS:

2.1 / can I rebase the air unit(s) in Bergen immediately after combat ?
2.2/ Is Germany considered to control all cities in Norway, for victory and opertaionnal purpose, from the end ground combat on ? If Germans take Oslo, do they need to actually invade Bergen and Narvik as well (othere than keeping it from Allies counter-attack) ?

3/ rule 11.2.1.1 air units range and staging

3.1/ since Germans get start with an airbase in Denmark, can their PARA unit stage there before participating in the invasion of Oslo, even if the Denmark has not yet been invaded ?
Does this staging count as entering Denmark for surrender purpose ?
Could I also conquer Denmark wth an air unit (TAC or MDM or FTR) ?

3.2/ What is meant by the sentence "How far an air unit may move in an impulse depends on what it does in that impulse" in the rule book ?

3.3/ At what time or times of the SOP can I rebase my air units? does this include PARA units ?


Thank you very much
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Ernie Copley
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Agabdir wrote:
Hello all,

I am very happy to see all of you being so keen on and efficient in, answering my newbie's questions ... So I will push my advantage and keep asking more and more:

1/Can I rebase air units providing OAS in the hex that I just conquered ?

2/ Rules 23.1 says that Norway will surrender "immediately" if Oslo is taken. So assuming I invade Oslo with a German amphibious landing including OAS:

2.1 / can I rebase the air unit(s) in Bergen immediately after combat ?
2.2/ Is Germany considered to control all cities in Norway, for victory and opertaionnal purpose, from the end ground combat on ? If Germans take Oslo, do they need to actually invade Bergen and Narvik as well (othere than keeping it from Allies counter-attack) ?

3/ rule 11.2.1.1 air units range and staging

3.1/ since Germans get start with an airbase in Denmark, can their PARA unit stage there before participating in the invasion of Oslo, even if the Denmark has not yet been invaded ?
Does this staging count as entering Denmark for surrender purpose ?
Could I also conquer Denmark wth an air unit (TAC or MDM or FTR) ?

3.2/ What is meant by the sentence "How far an air unit may move in an impulse depends on what it does in that impulse" in the rule book ?

3.3/ At what time or times of the SOP can I rebase my air units? does this include PARA units ?


Thank you very much


Hello Robin - in order:

1) Not in the same impulse - if you conquered a hex in first impulse, and the hex is in supply at the beginning of second impulse, an air unit could stage to the city conquered on first impulse and provide OAS on second impulse from its new base. Note that INF units do not get a second impulse.

2) as above, not in the same impulse; if you conquer Oslo in the First Impulse, you could rebase an air unit to Bergen on second impulse, since Norway surrenders as soon as Oslo falls;

3) as above if by "immediately after combat" you mean you're done with First Impulse and want to stage to a now-friendly Bergen hex in second impulse, yes;

4) I will quote from the current TW errata sheet:

"#2 Norway:

a.) For purposes of determining victory conditions, German “control” of Narvik, Bergen and Oslo means that
the city/map board box is occupied by a German ground unit.
a.) The French INF unit is 2-5, not 1-5
b.) The French begin the scenario with an RLE, not an LLE."

5) yes - the PARA can stage to the Denmark airbase;

6) as per 23.17 of the Campaign game, Denmark surrenders as soon as Germany declares war on Denmark; in the scenario, the Danes surrender as soon as any German unit enters the country; so staging an air unit or PARA unit to a base in Denmark would count for this purpose;

7) not sure which rule you are quoting, but note that an air unit's staging range is twice its normal offensive range, as per 11.2.1.1, on each of its hops, and an air unit gets up to three hops when it stages;

8) as per Norway scenario SOP card: a player may stage air units in step 66B and step 6W of the Operations Segment.

Hope this helps,

ernie

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