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Subject: 'Ice Blade' Upgrade card buffs all hero fights in a space? rss

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Geoff Sherman
United States
Michigan
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Greetings BBG'ers,

This came up in a recent session of the game where some notorious rule benders ass-umed that the 'Ice Blade' Upgrade card affected/buffed ALL heroes fighting in the same space as a hero with that card. Does it? Looking at it now I would say the answer is "No, it only affects fights for the hero with it equipped".

However, I could allow myself to imagine this uber Ice Blade emanating a kind of arcane arctic blast that COULD affect all baddies negatively and boost all heroes fighting in that space.

Thoughts o wise ones?
 
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Dan Licata
United States
Bel Air
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Sir Gruntsalot wrote:
Greetings BBG'ers,

This came up in a recent session of the game where some notorious rule benders ass-umed that the 'Ice Blade' Upgrade card affected/buffed ALL heroes fighting in the same space as a hero with that card. Does it? Looking at it now I would say the answer is "No, it only affects fights for the hero with it equipped".

However, I could allow myself to imagine this uber Ice Blade emanating a kind of arcane arctic blast that COULD affect all baddies negatively and boost all heroes fighting in that space.

Thoughts o wise ones?


It helps if you include the wording on the card as most of us don't have the game in front of us to look. But I would say no only the hero equipped with it. I reserve the right to change my mind after I see the wording.
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Geoff Sherman
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Thanks Dan.

Ice Blade 'Weapon' Upgrade Card: +1 Dice and +1 Shield in Fights in your Space.
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Dan Harrow
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Upgrade cards only affect the single hero who has acquired it and there are no upgrade cards that affect other heroes. The "in Fights in your Space" portion of Ice Blade is there because it is a sword and thus can only be used in melee combat. It does not work for Ranged combat.

The rules as written in the rule book state that "the" hero to which the upgrade card is equipped benefits from the card's effect.
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Trevis Marlar
United States
Colorado Springs
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Hmh!?
Well, with that wording, there is the possibility of the Ice Blade of applying to all fights in your space.
Comparative analysis, all you lucky ones who have the game?
 
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Geoff Sherman
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Yup, makes sense, nice and clean. Missed the 'the' in the rule book pg.28 under 'Upgrade Cards'.

Thanks Dan(s)!
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Shelby Babb
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Springdale
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My sympathies on playing with pedantic asshats.
 
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Geoff Sherman
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Ha, it's not too bad. They definitely keep me on my toes rules wise. Once I've built up enough confidence on my own knowledge of the rules I can usually manage to put down any rebellion

I will say playing Imperial Assault with this bunch has really turned me into a sympathizer of the Galactic Empire. A strong hand required to keep order laugh
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J H
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We played this at Gen Con with the CMoN guys and the Ice Blade effects did apply to all heroes in the same space.
 
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Flavio Santos
Brazil
Brasilia
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XeyneGaming wrote:
Upgrade cards only affect the single hero who has acquired it and there are no upgrade cards that affect other heroes. The "in Fights in your Space" portion of Ice Blade is there because it is a sword and thus can only be used in melee combat. It does not work for Ranged combat.

The rules as written in the rule book state that "the" hero to which the upgrade card is equipped benefits from the card's effect.

That is not correct. That particular upgrade gives the hero an ability that helps every other hero in a fight.
 
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Geoff Sherman
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Havox wrote:
We played this at Gen Con with the CMoN guys and the Ice Blade effects did apply to all heroes in the same space.


Thanks JH but after careful reading of the rulebook I don't think that's correct. Here's what I'm basing that on:

- Rulebook pg.28, last sentence in second paragraph under section 'Upgrade Cards': "Each card offers the hero different bonuses or abilities."

- Rulebook pg.33, under 'Fight - Hero Preparation': "4. He adds any other extra dice he might be able to get from his Natural Ability or Upgrade cards in his possession."

- Rulebook pg.33 under 'Fight - Fight Resolution ': "The Hero adds to his roll any extra results granted by his Base Defense, Ability, Upgrade cards in his possession , or - if he took Voluntary Corruption - from his corruption track."

The above would indicate that a hero would only ever get the benefit of an Upgrade card if it was in his possession.

Also, I looked through other Upgrade cards from the Beta and Omega Team expansions (I don't have Gamma or Delta) and could only find one other example of the similar wording; Weapon 'Staff of Ruin': +1 die in Fights in your Space. If you destroy at least 2 Monsters, heal 1 Wound."

It seems to me that a literal interpretation of "Fights in your Space" on both sets of cards COULD mean that it affects other heroes fighting in the same space as the hero possessing the card BUT literal interpretation of the rulebook sections dealing with the use and application of Upgrade cards strictly prohibit that.

We may need to wait for an official ruling on the matter but until then I'm satisfied with 'Upgrades only affect the hero holding it'. And because I'm most likely to be playing as the Sins I'm fine with that

Cheers
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J H
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Sir Gruntsalot wrote:
Havox wrote:
We played this at Gen Con with the CMoN guys and the Ice Blade effects did apply to all heroes in the same space.


Thanks JH but after careful reading of the rulebook I don't think that's correct. Here's what I'm basing that on:

- Rulebook pg.28, last sentence in second paragraph under section 'Upgrade Cards': "Each card offers the hero different bonuses or abilities."

- Rulebook pg.33, under 'Fight - Hero Preparation': "4. He adds any other extra dice he might be able to get from his Natural Ability or Upgrade cards in his possession."

- Rulebook pg.33 under 'Fight - Fight Resolution ': "The Hero adds to his roll any extra results granted by his Base Defense, Ability, Upgrade cards in his possession , or - if he took Voluntary Corruption - from his corruption track."

The above would indicate that a hero would only ever get the benefit of an Upgrade card if it was in his possession.

Also, I looked through other Upgrade cards from the Beta and Omega Team expansions (I don't have Gamma or Delta) and could only find one other example of the similar wording; Weapon 'Staff of Ruin': +1 die in Fights in your Space. If you destroy at least 2 Monsters, heal 1 Wound."

It seems to me that a literal interpretation of "Fights in your Space" on both sets of cards COULD mean that it affects other heroes fighting in the same space as the hero possessing the card BUT literal interpretation of the rulebook sections dealing with the use and application of Upgrade cards strictly prohibit that.

We may need to wait for an official ruling on the matter but until then I'm satisfied with 'Upgrades only affect the hero holding it'. And because I'm most likely to be playing as the Sins I'm fine with that

Cheers


It is very powerful and the fact there are only two items like it in the equipment decks makes me think even more that it applies to all heroes in a space. If not, why have the "in your space" wording at all when it could be worded like other equipment cards? Like I said, we played this with Cool Mini or Not staff and they were very clear that it affected all heroes in a space. They could have been wrong, but that specific item was called out as being very powerful for the heroes. Let's hope we get an official response.
 
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Cameron Knees
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Havox wrote:
Sir Gruntsalot wrote:
Havox wrote:
We played this at Gen Con with the CMoN guys and the Ice Blade effects did apply to all heroes in the same space.


Thanks JH but after careful reading of the rulebook I don't think that's correct. Here's what I'm basing that on:

- Rulebook pg.28, last sentence in second paragraph under section 'Upgrade Cards': "Each card offers the hero different bonuses or abilities."

- Rulebook pg.33, under 'Fight - Hero Preparation': "4. He adds any other extra dice he might be able to get from his Natural Ability or Upgrade cards in his possession."

- Rulebook pg.33 under 'Fight - Fight Resolution ': "The Hero adds to his roll any extra results granted by his Base Defense, Ability, Upgrade cards in his possession , or - if he took Voluntary Corruption - from his corruption track."

The above would indicate that a hero would only ever get the benefit of an Upgrade card if it was in his possession.

Also, I looked through other Upgrade cards from the Beta and Omega Team expansions (I don't have Gamma or Delta) and could only find one other example of the similar wording; Weapon 'Staff of Ruin': +1 die in Fights in your Space. If you destroy at least 2 Monsters, heal 1 Wound."

It seems to me that a literal interpretation of "Fights in your Space" on both sets of cards COULD mean that it affects other heroes fighting in the same space as the hero possessing the card BUT literal interpretation of the rulebook sections dealing with the use and application of Upgrade cards strictly prohibit that.

We may need to wait for an official ruling on the matter but until then I'm satisfied with 'Upgrades only affect the hero holding it'. And because I'm most likely to be playing as the Sins I'm fine with that

Cheers


It is very powerful and the fact there are only two items like it in the equipment decks makes me think even more that it applies to all heroes in a space. If not, why have the "in your space" wording at all when it could be worded like other equipment cards? Like I said, we played this with Cool Mini or Not staff and they were very clear that it affected all heroes in a space. They could have been wrong, but that specific item was called out as being very powerful for the heroes. Let's hope we get an official response.
It states in your space to clarify that you won't get the bonus die if you were using ranged. I'm in the team log it doesn't benefit other Heros. They only get one extra die from other Heros in your space, not extra from the ice blade they may have.
 
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Kent
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Although I would hope that the CMON crew would know the game, I have read reports that this is not always the case. I have to go with team melee, that the extra wording is due to the non-ranged effects.

Now, if there are other upgrades with non-ranged effects that DO contain different extra wording, then I may have to reconsider.
 
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Patrick Reynolds
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There's no way that Ice Blade (and Staff of Ruin and Gatling Gun, since they also have the "+1 die in fights in your space" wording) work for all heroes in a space.

There are two copies of all three of these in the upgrade deck.

Consider - two heroes in the same space, each with an Ice Blade and Staff of Ruin equipped. When either of them starts a Fight, they would get +5 dice if it works this way (+2 from their upgrades, +2 from the other hero's upgrades and +1 from the presence of the other hero).

These items affect only the hero who has them equipped. The "in your space" wording is there to prevent the bonuses from working with ranged attacks.

Seems super obvious to me.
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J M
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Havox wrote:

It is very powerful and the fact there are only two items like it in the equipment decks makes me think even more that it applies to all heroes in a space. If not, why have the "in your space" wording at all when it could be worded like other equipment cards? Like I said, we played this with Cool Mini or Not staff and they were very clear that it affected all heroes in a space. They could have been wrong, but that specific item was called out as being very powerful for the heroes. Let's hope we get an official response.


When I played Kaosball at the CMoN expo, the CMoN guy was very clear about three egregious BS rule errors also. The only guys I would trust to give a correct answer are Eric or Thiago. whistle
 
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Mark Thompson
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I too, played this at Gen Con with CMON... and the Ice Blade only affected the hero that owned the card.

My guess is the aforementioned example was a case of the demo'er missing the rules explanation.

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Dan Harrow
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Thiago has answered this question for someone else and they shared it in another thread, so here's the official response:

Q: The "Ice Blade" upgrade card states "+1 Dice and +1 Shield in Fights in your Space". Does this mean ALL fights in your space? (i.e. Do your teammates get to take advantage of this too?)

A: No, it’s only for fights where you are the active hero.

Reference - FAQ Thread
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Geoff Sherman
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Mystery solved. Thanks Dan.
 
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