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FAB: Golan '73» Forums » Rules

Subject: A couple more esoteric rules questions rss

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Doug DeMoss
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I was playing last night and had a couple more rules questions, largely having to do with supply and assets.

An asset defending by itself can use one artillery asset (only). Can a cut-off Mt. Hermon garrison use one? It doesn't need supply, being in Mt. Hermon, but can't trace a normal path either.

Can an unsupplied Syrian unit that is attacked by an Israeli force using an Air Support asset use a SAM asset? I think the answer is no as the rules are written (since 16.12 just says that the usual sequence of play is overridden, not the supply requirements of 6.23), but I'm not sure. Also, can Syrian units affected by 15.12 use a SAM asset?
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Adam Parker
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Hi Doug, I’m new to the game but confident to answer as follows:

1) 14.94 deems Mt Hermon a Supply Source so it’s always in supply and able to trace a Supply Path to it. Thing is only Infantry Battle Assets and Air Support Assets can be assigned to Mt Hermon (14.16), not Artillery Assets. So No.

2) Yes. The SAM Asset can attack as it’s only limited by an area in the SAM zone being entered by an Israeli Air Support Asset. Logically, the defending unit land unit in the area would be irrelevant.

(Note to Rick and Michael: There’s a small typo in rule 16.12: whenever an Israeli air supoort asset is placed in an area that is east of the Syrian SAM Barrier ...”

3) Yes. As Non Battle Assets defined in 16.1 (i.e. SAMs) can be assigned.

Happy for someone to correct me on this.
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Michael Gustavsson
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Adam, you're spot on, thanks for your help
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Doug DeMoss
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Well, 14.16 (and 14.94) says that *units* are in supply in Mt. Hermon, but 6.23 requires them to "trace a valid supply path" which isn't the same thing (the sequence of play means that units will from time to time still be in supply but not able to trace a path). But if artillery aren't allowed, it doesn't much matter.

One related question this brings to mind, though. Does Mt. Hermon have to trace a supply path to count as a VP for the owning side? It is, after all, an area, not a unit, and thus not granted supply by 14.16.

Also, as far as SAMs being considered non-battle assets, I can't find anything that says that they are. Is that in the rules somewhere? I'm assuming that battle assets are those that have a step, but I can't find a clear definition.
 
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Adam Parker
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Remember that a Supply Path per 9.31 is simply a path traced from a unit to a Supply Source. 14.94 deems Mt Hermon a "Special Supply Source".


Re SAMs as Non Battle Assets, the rule is actually in 15.12 which defines a Non Battle Asset as including 16.1 (SAMs)
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Doug DeMoss
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By that logic, though, there's no difference between a Supply Source and a Special Supply Source. I interpreted "Special Supply Source" as needing to mean a supply source that ONLY acts as defined in 14.94 (providing supply to units in the same area) to avoid that logical problem.
 
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Adam Parker
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demoss1 wrote:
By that logic, though, there's no difference between a Supply Source and a Special Supply Source.


That’s right! Except the Special Supply Source only applies to units in it.

Quote:
I interpreted "Special Supply Source" as needing to mean a supply source that ONLY acts as defined in 14.94 (providing supply to units in the same area) to avoid that logical problem.


That’s right too.

A force in Mt Hermon is always in supply because it can abstractly trace a Supply Path to Mt Hermon (14.94).

Equally an Israeli force in an Israeli Assembly Area (another type of Special Supply Source) is always in supply because it can abstractly trace a Supply Path to the Israeli Assembly Area it’s in (14.95).
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Doug DeMoss
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Adam Parker wrote:
demoss1 wrote:
By that logic, though, there's no difference between a Supply Source and a Special Supply Source.


That’s right! Except the Special Supply Source only applies to units in it.

Quote:
I interpreted "Special Supply Source" as needing to mean a supply source that ONLY acts as defined in 14.94 (providing supply to units in the same area) to avoid that logical problem.


That’s right too.

A force in Mt Hermon is always in supply because it can abstractly trace a Supply Path to Mt Hermon (14.94).

Equally an Israeli force in an Israeli Assembly Area (another type of Special Supply Source) is always in supply because it can abstractly trace a Supply Path to the Israeli Assembly Area it’s in (14.95).


But as I pointed out earlier, that leads to the conclusion that it does NOT apply to supply for VP purposes - since the area is obviously not a unit.
 
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Adam Parker
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Doug I understand what you're saying. So in 19.1 add a ref to 14.94.

But rule 14.16 to me makes it clear that Mt Hermon is "a special area" so is treated differently with its own internal Supply Path.

Put your idea to Rick and Michael and see if they think the ref needs to be added
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Michael Gustavsson
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Mt. Hermon area is always in supply to any unit/asset occupying it! Whoever controls that area is awarded VP's in the Victory Check Phase.
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