Matt Tonks
United Kingdom
Bedfordshire
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Here's what I'm not sure about...

I get to stage 3B and pick the one that allows me to pick a Spider, so choose Ungoliant's Spawn. What I'm not sure about is the quest phase has ended following my advancing to stage 3B or if I'm still in the quest phase in which case U's Spawn's 'when revealed' effect triggers?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Robin Munn

Unspecified
msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Actually, neither one of those is quite correct. A look at two different parts of the FAQ will help us get the right answer:

FAQ wrote:
Q. If Legolas has a Blade of Gondolin (CORE 39) and destroys an enemy, can he trigger his response, finish off a quest card, and still place progress tokens on the next quest with the Blade of Gondolin’s response?
A: Yes. Quest cards are immediately replaced as soon as players place enough progress on them, and this replacement does not interrupt the current round sequence. If the current quest card only needs 1 progress on it, then a player could also trigger the Blade’s effect first, and then Legolas’ in order to maximize the number of progress tokens placed. (There is no carry-over progress from an effect).


So you're still in the quest phase when stage 3 comes into play, and when resolving stage 3B, which says (if you're on the "Don't Leave the Path!" card), "When Revealed: Each player must search the encounter deck and discard pile for 1 Spider card of his choice, and add it to the staging area." Now let's look at the FAQ again:

FAQ wrote:
(1.22) “When Revealed” Effects
A card is only considered to be revealed if the card or game effect causing the card to enter play specifically uses a form of the word “reveal”.
Example: If the players use the Stage 3b “Don’t Leave the Path!” (CORE 121) quest card effect to search for a King Spider and put it into play, the “When Revealed” effect on the King Spider will not trigger, since the effect on “Don’t Leave the Path!” does not specifically use a form of the word “reveal.”


Same thing applies to Ungoliant's Spawn as to King Spider: its When Revealed effect will not trigger either.

So the answer to your question is "neither is quite right". You're still in the quest phase, but Ungoliant's Spawn's When Revealed effect does not trigger because of the wording on stage 3B.
2 
 Thumb up
0.01
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Matt Tonks
United Kingdom
Bedfordshire
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Great thanks... I had therefore played it wrong but still won as I played the Spirit event that lets me cancel a 'when revealed' effect. Managed to kill it off before I lost anyway, so thanks for the info... That is interesting!
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Robin Munn

Unspecified
msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
tonksey wrote:
Great thanks... I had therefore played it wrong but still won as I played the Spirit event that lets me cancel a 'when revealed' effect.


Actually, I took another look at Ungoliant's Spawn -- and even if the "When Revealed" effect was supposed to trigger, you wouldn't have needed to cancel it. Ungoliant's Spawn has "When Revealed: Each character currently committed to a quest gets -1 Willpower until the end of the phase." So that would have reduced the willpower of your questing characters... but it wouldn't have mattered at that point. Because by the time you're revealing Stage 3, you're already past the point where you calculate Willpower - Threat and place that many progress tokens. If your characters subsequently get their Willpower reduced, it won't retroactively go back and remove progress tokens. (Likewise, a Defense bonus after damage has already been applied would be too late to change the amount of damage placed on your character, and so on.)

Now, there ARE some scenarios where it might matter. For example, in one of the Khazad-Dûm quests (I think it's the one that involves crossing the snowy mountains of Caradhras), there's an encounter stage where characters with 0 Willpower are discarded. (The idea being that they give up and turn back). And there are multiple cards in that quest that give -1 Willpower to all exhausted characters, or all characters committed to the quest, or whatever. In THAT scenario, you might well want to cancel a "-1 Willpower to all exhausted characters" effect even after placing progress, because it could make the difference between still having 3 heroes and suddenly being down to just a single hero. But in Passage Through Mirkwood, nothing bad will happen if your characters are reduced to 0 Willpower after you have already placed quest progress. (You cannot ever be reduced to -1 or lower of any stat: if you had 0 Willpower and a -1 effect is applied, your total Willpower is still 0).
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Matt Tonks
United Kingdom
Bedfordshire
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
rmunn wrote:
Actually, I took another look at Ungoliant's Spawn -- and even if the "When Revealed" effect was supposed to trigger, you wouldn't have needed to cancel it. Ungoliant's Spawn has "When Revealed: Each character currently committed to a quest gets -1 Willpower until the end of the phase." So that would have reduced the willpower of your questing characters... but it wouldn't have mattered at that point. Because by the time you're revealing Stage 3, you're already past the point where you calculate Willpower - Threat and place that many progress tokens. If your characters subsequently get their Willpower reduced, it won't retroactively go back and remove progress tokens. (Likewise, a Defense bonus after damage has already been applied would be too late to change the amount of damage placed on your character, and so on.)


You're looking at the wrong Spawn; in the Nightmare deck there is a new version which (When Revealed) each character committed to the quest gets -2 Willpower and is discarded is their Willpower is 0. Which is why I was asking originally if it triggered or not as it could have meant the loss of two heroes and a bunch of allies in one swoop!
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.