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Cosmic Encounter» Forums » Rules

Subject: Kicker vs Chronos rss

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Nathan Kushner
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Interesting rules debate came up last night in a game. I wasn't involved in the encounter, but it was Chronos attacking the Calculator. I wasn't involved, but the stakes were high for me because Chronos was to the left of me, we were both at 4, and his loss in the encounter would probably mean I'd get to try for my solo win.

Calculator defended with an attack card (can't remember which) and a kicker, which ended up being the Self-Destruct one.

Quote:

X1: Play facedown before encounter cards are selected. Both sides immediately lose the encounter and all involved ships go to the warp without compensation.


Chronos tried to invoke his power to call a do-over, which he is allowed to do after encounter cards are revealed. I argued that this was probably not allowed, because the kicker says both sides "immediately lose the encounter" where almost no other cards in the game use the word "immediately" that way. An immediate end of the encounter would preclude the use of a power designated for the reveal phase, right?

Any thoughts on this? 24 hours later, I thought of what my next talking point should have been in the moment....since all ships go to the warp, even if the re-selection of encounter cards was allowed, Chronos would be going in with no ships that could land.

Any thoughts? Not that it matters; I did not convince my tablemates at the time, and the do-over was allowed, but...Chronos didn't have anything that stopped Calculator from using the kicker in the do-over, so even with the forced selection of a different attack card for Calculator, the result was the same. But the thought experiment is fun.
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SpaghettiToastBook
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natertots wrote:
Chronos tried to invoke his power to call a do-over, which he is allowed to do after encounter cards are revealed. I argued that this was probably not allowed, because the kicker says both sides "immediately lose the encounter" where almost no other cards in the game use the word "immediately" that way. An immediate end of the encounter would preclude the use of a power designated for the reveal phase, right?

I'm not sure why else "immediately" would be there, so I think you're right.

natertots wrote:
Any thoughts on this? 24 hours later, I thought of what my next talking point should have been in the moment....since all ships go to the warp, even if the re-selection of encounter cards was allowed, Chronos would be going in with no ships that could land.

This is incorrect. The ships go the warp when both players lose. If Chronos got to use its power, the players wouldn't lose, so no ships would be lost.
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Jack of Clubs
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Why is there no Word Games Forum or Subdomain?
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The cards are not written with individual powers in mind. They only describe what will happen if no power (or other game element) interferes with them. I think in this case, "immediately" is meant to rule out the possibility of an Emotion Control, or Reinforcements being played. I think it's perfectly valid for Chronos to use his power (or other powers that could be used at this time). But of course, Chronos cannot prevent the playing of the same Kicker, so the outcome will be the same, if the Calculator wants it to be. The only benefit to Chronos is that he doesn't have to waste a good card on this encounter.

After all, what does "immediately" even mean to an alien that can travel through time?
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Nathan Kushner
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Quote:
This is incorrect. The ships go the warp when both players lose. If Chronos got to use its power, the players wouldn't lose, so no ships would be lost.


Normally, yes. I question that only because the kicker is causing the ship loss in a separate effect, rather than the normal course of playing an encounter.
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Just a Bill
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No, I said "oh, brother," not "go hover."
natertots wrote:
Normally, yes. I question that only because the kicker is causing the ship loss in a separate effect, rather than the normal course of playing an encounter.

I don't think it's doing that. What the kicker causes to happen atypically is "both sides lose" and "no compensation." All ships going to the warp is the natural consequence of both sides losing; the reason it states the ship loss explicitly is to emphasize the unusual situation of not getting compensation in spite of losing your ships to the warp.
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