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Old School Tactical» Forums » Rules

Subject: Map Terrain - Map 1 Woods rss

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Terry Simo
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Most of Map 1 is pretty consistent but hexes K12 and K13 are problematic.

1. Is K12 considered a Woods hex or a Open hex? Less than 25% Woods in the hex.

2. K13 is only 50% Wooded - is that hex a Wood hex as well? Makes for really odd LOS issues with it not being fully wooded. Had my opponent that a shot from the hex behind it to a unit behind the hill. LOS crossed through K13 and another hex with 1 small building - LOS string was clear of any terrain but crossing through K13 is the issue.

I didn't see any other hexes that cause any confusion at least for woods.
 
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Terry Simo
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One thing that I would recommend that would help alleviate this problem would be to add the same rule as Per Structures and Hills.

Add:

Woods - Replace: "A Woods hex blocks LOS" with "LOS is blocked in the hex only by the trees themselves, the rest of the hex degrades LOS"


Now this brings up the issue along hexspines - if Tree art is on a hexspine it should be blocked but if the hexspine is clear of tree art then it should only degrade LOS. Of course none of this would really be an issue if hexes K12 and K13 had full tree art vs 50% or less but there have already been two shot attempts in a game I'm playing where this is a factor.
 
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Shayne Logan
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K12 is open. K13 is woods.
Sorry for the confusion.

A few too many trees creeping into the open hex.

C18 D18 and E17 are open terrain as well.

Normally the centre dot will have woods encompassing it to denote the woods.
 
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Kevin Rohrer
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Yes, the blocking terrain rule needs to be changed so that the LOS is blocked ONLY if it actually crosses some obstruction terrain.

Also, the game desperately needs Advanced/Optional rules. The "no negative defensive modifier" for being in the open is a killer for some people.

I also don't agree with throwing fire into a text turn after turn w/o effect because you roll low. Repeat fire from the same infantry firing unit to the same defending unit should get an Acquired marker like vehicle fire.
 
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Terry Simo
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Map 1 Hex J11 is a good example of the hexspine issue. A unit shooting from I10 to K10 would normally have its LOS blocked but looking at the map art it would be much better to just have that be Degraded LOS for a Woods Hex. I know my opponent and I are gnashing our teeth each time this has come up today and the precedent is there for other Terrain types - Hills and Structures so I don't think the rule change would be that problematic.
 
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Terry Simo
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Here is the image with the shot going through K13. You can see with LOS tool that it doesn't cross any trees or buildings which could be a -2 Degraded LOS if the same rule as Structures/Hills was applied as well as look at the LOS from I10 to K10 in that picture. Really very limiting for fire avenues by making the woods hexes block complete LOS without taking into account the map art (which btw is awesome)
 
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Paul O'Dette
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Yeah, I agree with Terry. Makes total sense. As much as I like the maps and the game, the maps need more refinement. It's interesting but trying the game on ASL maps removes a lot of ambiguity. Changing the rules to add the degrade option for other issues really would work. I actually love the idea of degrading terrain. It's a great concept which simplifies LOS rules quite a bit.
 
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Kevin L. Kitchens
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podette wrote:
Yeah, I agree with Terry. Makes total sense. As much as I like the maps and the game, the maps need more refinement. It's interesting but trying the game on ASL maps removes a lot of ambiguity. Changing the rules to add the degrade option for other issues really would work. I actually love the idea of degrading terrain. It's a great concept which simplifies LOS rules quite a bit.


Or even better, make it like Combat Commander where the artwork matters.
 
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Paul O'Dette
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I think artwork matters in ASL though, maybe a few exceptions (orchards iirc, etc). Not a die hard player.

I rather like the degrading terrain approach though. It's a nice compromise and allows the game to scale up for the 'big game' where you have a lot (imagine 100 units per side or more) on the map.

I've not tried this system with that many yet, but this game has a real 'scale' potential to it's design that many others would bog on (ASL included - sure you can do a 'big game' if you play 8 hours a weekend for 20 weeks).
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