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Subject: Problem with GF regarding this game. rss

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Brandon Ciantar
Malta
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Ok this is sort of funny buy I'll have to say it because its a dilemma. I own Dominion (the base game) for a week now and I love it so much that I was determined to buy all the expansions released so far for it. There is one problem :

Me and my gf played this game three times before yesterday and we both loved it. Then yesterday we drew the witch for the first time. She hated it.

She said its a cheap card and that she doesnt like it because it made her lose pretty badly. Then I asked her : Why dont you use it as well? And she said : Because its a cheap card, unlike Thief which reasonably takes a treasury, this one clogs your deck and its very cheap.

So any advice how to counter the witch effectively? Or should I remove it completely from our games?
 
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Ben O'Steen
United Kingdom
Bishops Stortford
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Either fight fire with fire, include defensive cards (Moat) in the Kingdom card selection, or just don't play with it!
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Mark O'Reilly
United Kingdom
Chester
Cheshire
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Burn the witch
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Dave Daffin
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Ledbury
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biffta wrote:
Burn the witch


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Chris Schumann
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As others have said, there are ways to combat the Witch.

1) Buy a Witch yourself. Attack cards are always worth considering. After all, if the goal is to win, then slowing your opponent might be a great strategy. (Seems to work for you!)

2) Sometimes, the Moat will be in the game. You have to strike a balance between clogging your deck with Moats or getting it clogged with Curses.

3) Sometimes, there's a way to offset the attack. Maybe Chapel is in the game, and the Curses will be easier to clean up.

But sometimes, there's no way to trash a card, and no defense, and you have to try to be the one who has your attack fire first.
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Morten K
Denmark
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Wow, witch is so much better a card than a thief. A thief clogs up your deck while a witch clogs up your opponents' decks. A personal favourite of mine in the base game is buy gardens and big money to counter a witch and then go for emptying three piles. The witch helps you with that and it gives you points as well.
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Moshe Callen
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Jerusalem
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My wife and I own only the base game and generally dislike the witch too; so we don't play with it. Still, moat and chapel are good ways to deal with it. Just have fun. It's a great game, and play it the way you and your gf or whomever you play with enjoy.

E.g., my wife and I don't like the whole thin deck strategy that people here on BGG typically swear by. Even when we've tried it, it didn't seem to work and wasn't much fun. So we don't play that way. Maybe I'll never play at the WBC that way but we emjoy the game more.
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Rick Teverbaugh
United States
Anderson
Indiana (IN)
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whac3 wrote:
My wife and I own only the base game and generally dislike the witch too; so we don't play with it. Still, moat and chapel are good ways to deal with it. Just have fun. It's a great game, and play it the way you and your gf or whomever you play with enjoy.

E.g., my wife and I don't like the whole thin deck strategy that people here on BGG typically swear by. Even when we've tried it, it didn't seem to work and wasn't much fun. So we don't play that way. Maybe I'll never play at the WBC that way but we emjoy the game more.


Don't understand why you don't enjoy playing with deck thinning. It gets rid of the cards that make your deck less efficient and puts more cards in your hand each turn that you purchased and need. Games are even more fun, last less time and give you more time to pick new kingdom cards and play again.
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Mike Young
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Sterling
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Do not play with the cards you don't enjoy playing with. Do not play strategies you don't like playing.

Games should be enjoyable for the people who play them and you should play however makes you happy.

Don't listen to the people here who don't like it when you don't play the same as them.

If your girlfriend doesn't like playing with Witch, don't use that card. There are plenty of other cards in the game.
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ackmondual
United States
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Brandonboards wrote:
Ok this is sort of funny buy I'll have to say it because its a dilemma. I own Dominion (the base game) for a week now and I love it so much that I was determined to buy all the expansions released so far for it. There is one problem :

Me and my gf played this game three times before yesterday and we both loved it. Then yesterday we drew the witch for the first time. She hated it.

She said its a cheap card and that she doesnt like it because it made her lose pretty badly. Then I asked her : Why dont you use it as well? And she said : Because its a cheap card, unlike Thief which reasonably takes a treasury, this one clogs your deck and its very cheap.

So any advice how to counter the witch effectively? Or should I remove it completely from our games?


I know that wasn't the meaning, but still like have to point that at 5 coins, Witch ain't cheap


It sounds like your gf just plain doesn't like the card. Removing any offending cards sounds like the way to go. You won't be the first nor the last person to do this...

Nasty cards like Saboteur (Intrigue) have been banned.

I know folks who don't include any "branch action" cards (+2 or more actions) since it makes the game drag on much longer than otherwise when they can play out a quarter to half their decks. They just don't have the patience for that, and also in some cases where folks want to be able to squeeze in one to 2 games during their lunch breaks.

EDIT: spelling
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The Compulsive Completist
United States
Indiana
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Once you introduce more expansions Witch will appear far less often.








Of course, other cards that she may equally dislike will rear their heads.
 
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piotr s
Poland
Warszawa
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Did you know that, in two player game you use only 10 courses, why she not buy one witch? If she she get one then she aprox. give 5 courses to you and get 5 courses less.
 
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Kathy Sheets
United States
Stuart
Florida
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Some people just do not enjoy 'take that' in their games. It takes the fun out of it for them and makes them feel like they're being personally attacked, especially when playing with their significant other. It sounds like your girlfriend might be like this so I think you will both be happiest to just not use attack cards that she objects to if you want her to keep playing.

She might change her mind at she gets more adept at deck building but I wouldn't count on it.
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United States
Fremont
California
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There have been plenty of good comments. I also recommend, just don't play with it (for now). If you are looking at the other expansions, you are going to find "similar" cards. However, since it sounds like you've only played a few times, I would skip it for now. Try different cards, maybe she will reconsider or discover strategies that would work well with it, and be open to playing with it added later.

Good luck!
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Everette Robertson
United States
Calhoun
KY
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Instead of Witch, you might try using Soothsayer, from the Guilds expansion. I realize that you don't have Guilds, but you can just use the blank cards do represent Soothsayer, or else print out copies of Soothsayer and affix it to the blank cards (or better yet, insert it into a sleeve along with the blank card).

You can find a picture of Soothsayer here: http://wiki.dominionstrategy.com/index.php/Soothsayer

Soothsayer is a $5 attack card that says this:

Gain a Gold. Each other player gains a Curse. Each player who did draws a card.

----------
"Each player who did" refers to the fact that you sometimes don't get a Curse, either because you were protected from the attack (by something like Moat) or because the Curses are out.

This card is much 'friendlier' than Witch, because you get to draw a card to make up for the Curse you gained. If your GF can handle Soothsayer, then she might eventually warm up to other attack cards.

Another option is to have your GF play against bots on the playdominion website. My wife used to dislike Cursers, but she doesn't mind Cursing bots, and doesn't take it personally when they Curse her. Because of this, she's gotten to see what Cursers add to the game, and now she doesn't mind using them in real life. (Saboteur is another story, but then again, nobody likes Saboteur).
 
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Tom Hill
United Kingdom
Wales
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Most of this is covered already:

There are some mechanisms for deck thinning in the base game:

Chapel can trash 4 cards (not great, but can tighten a deck)
Remodel: Can trash a card for another card worth +2 (not great but you could buy a moat).

Moat: as discussed can prevent an attack.

Don't forget there should only be 10 Curses in a 2-player game.
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United States
Austin
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"Let each man pass his days in that wherein his skill is greatest" Propertius Sextus
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Decar wrote:
Chapel can trash 4 cards (not great, but can tighten a deck)


surprise
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ackmondual
United States
SoCal
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marcory wrote:
(Saboteur is another story, but then again, nobody likes Saboteur).

I will acknowledge that Saboteur isn't as bad as the designer and some of the "Dominion team" have stated... It gives you no benefit to play it, the target player getting to pick a new card isn't THAT bad, and how this can turn a typical card into a Victory card for points.

However, newbies still put too much emphasis on this, to the dismay of vets. I've played with some newbies who've gotten it as a "nuclear option"... they know they won't win, so they'll try to make it as painful to others as possible.
 
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Tom Hill
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Wales
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I meant: I don't think it's great reactive play to buy a chapel for the sole purpose of removing Curses; but it depends how many curses you have in your deck and how many other +1 Action cards you have. It's certainly good when used as part of a deck thinning strategy.
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United States
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Decar wrote:
I meant: I don't think it's great reactive play to buy a chapel for the sole purpose of removing Curses; but it depends how many curses you have in your deck and how many other +1 Action cards you have. It's certainly good when used as part of a deck thinning strategy.


That makes total sense. I'd agree. Chapel as a reactive card in a deck already bloated with curses is not good. It is just as likely to end up in a hand containing just copper/silver as it is in a hand with a curse. So in a way clogs your deck up just as much as buying an estate.

Thanks for clarifying.
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ackmondual
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darthnice wrote:
Decar wrote:
I meant: I don't think it's great reactive play to buy a chapel for the sole purpose of removing Curses; but it depends how many curses you have in your deck and how many other +1 Action cards you have. It's certainly good when used as part of a deck thinning strategy.


That makes total sense. I'd agree. Chapel as a reactive card in a deck already bloated with curses is not good. It is just as likely to end up in a hand containing just copper/silver as it is in a hand with a curse. So in a way clogs your deck up just as much as buying an estate.

Thanks for clarifying.
All the 2-cost cards in base game actually help deal with Curses in one way or another. With Chapel, assuming you got one from the beginning and thinned your deck, it's easier to utilize it to get rid of gained Curses, although still not as ideal is defending via Moat in the first place.
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Tom Hill
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Wales
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I think Intrigue offered quite a few different options for trashing cards; an expansion might solve a few issues too
 
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Liallan G
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rickert wrote:

Don't understand why you don't enjoy playing with deck thinning. It gets rid of the cards that make your deck less efficient and puts more cards in your hand each turn that you purchased and need. Games are even more fun, last less time and give you more time to pick new kingdom cards and play again.

Don't understand how you get to decide what is fun for someone else.
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Paulo Santoro
Brazil
São Paulo
São Paulo
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If you don't like the Witch and are about to buy expansions, do not buy Intrigue. I repeat: do not buy Intrigue. You should never play with Swindler and many other cards in this expansion.

Did I say do not buy Intrigue?
 
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Jorge
Switzerland
Lausanne
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Brandonboards wrote:
Me and my gf played this game three times before yesterday and we both loved it. Then yesterday we drew the witch for the first time. She hated it.
If she's giving you a hard time, get yourself a younger one. With more accurate analytical thinking and higher quality arguments, if possible. Today's the Witch, tomorrow it will be something else. If you are having fun with something and she's not and is happening across various games...

The alternative will be to give in and remove the Witch.
 
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