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Subject: French version: Sherlock vs. Moriarty - Updates rss

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Gordon
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I'd like to start this thread so anyone can post information or news about the upcoming IELLO French version of the game.

We've been playing the mess out of a homemade print-and-play version of Timebomb. Needless to say we were excited when we found out that it would finally be coming out in the U.S. - however less enthused about the obligatory Cthulhu theme (and I love the works of Lovecraft! -- just hate unnecessary Cthulhu themes)

Anyway, just found out about the Sherlock themed French version.
Much better theme! Maintains the wire cutting aspect! Gorgeous art! Yes, please! laugh

Feel free to post any and all news you find out about the IELLO French version here -- especially how/when we might be able to get it to the states!
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Matthieu BONIN
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Thanks for your interest.
I don't know about getting a copy of the game in the US, but here's a hint about the when: the estimated release date in France is November 25th. It's still pretty far away, but I don't expect any further delay, as the files are ready as we speak.
You should see more from the game soon…
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Iain Brown
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That's a shame, I was hoping there'd be some copies at Essen.
 
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Clyde W
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Mattintheweb wrote:
Thanks for your interest.
I don't know about getting a copy of the game in the US, but here's a hint about the when: the estimated release date in France is November 25th. It's still pretty far away, but I don't expect any further delay, as the files are ready as we speak.
You should see more from the game soon…
Will it have the same "expansion" content as the IBC version?
 
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Brendan Little
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The art in this version looks spectacular. Agree with everything in this thread. I'll definitely be getting a copy in the US any way I can.
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Matthieu BONIN
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clydeiii wrote:
Will it have the same "expansion" content as the IBC version?
No, but the game will be playable with 8 players.
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Brendan Little
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Mattintheweb wrote:
clydeiii wrote:
Will it have the same "expansion" content as the IBC version?
No, but the game will be playable with 8 players.


Will there be any rule tweaks?

Just asking since with 5+ players, in the original rules, the terrorists can just pass the clippers back and forth endlessly until time runs out.
 
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Clyde W
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brendover wrote:
Mattintheweb wrote:
clydeiii wrote:
Will it have the same "expansion" content as the IBC version?
No, but the game will be playable with 8 players.


Will there be any rule tweaks?

Just asking since with 5+ players, in the original rules, the terrorists can just pass the clippers back and forth endlessly until time runs out.
How do evil players know each other?
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Matthieu BONIN
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brendover wrote:
Just asking since with 5+ players, in the original rules, the terrorists can just pass the clippers back and forth endlessly until time runs out.
I don't think so, and we never encounter such an issue during our (numerous) games…
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Brendan Little
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clydeiii wrote:
brendover wrote:
Mattintheweb wrote:
clydeiii wrote:
Will it have the same "expansion" content as the IBC version?
No, but the game will be playable with 8 players.


Will there be any rule tweaks?

Just asking since with 5+ players, in the original rules, the terrorists can just pass the clippers back and forth endlessly until time runs out.
How do evil players know each other?


We had a brief discussion about this in another thread, but if everyone acts good, and someone suddenly acts openly evil (like clipping someone who has the bomb or claims to have it), it's obvious they are evil and the other evil player(s) know that person is evil. If everyone acts evil, then it's harder for good to win as there is less good, reliable information about the state/layout of the table (making finding fuses more difficult).
 
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Clyde W
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brendover wrote:
clydeiii wrote:
brendover wrote:
Mattintheweb wrote:
clydeiii wrote:
Will it have the same "expansion" content as the IBC version?
No, but the game will be playable with 8 players.


Will there be any rule tweaks?

Just asking since with 5+ players, in the original rules, the terrorists can just pass the clippers back and forth endlessly until time runs out.
How do evil players know each other?


We had a brief discussion about this in another thread, but if everyone acts good, and someone suddenly acts openly evil (like clipping someone who has the bomb or claims to have it), it's obvious they are evil and the other evil player(s) know that person is evil. If everyone acts evil, then it's harder for good to win as there is less good, reliable information about the state/layout of the table (making finding fuses more difficult).
Sure! So the incentives the game is offering players is multi-layered and difficult to understand. If you act too good, evil outs themselves and wins. If you act too evil (as good), evil slides under the radar and wins. What the game asks of players is to act kinda evil and kinda good and try to keep everyone guessing for as long as possible until you make the game-winning move.

Though to be fair, I'm not sure that makes the game any good. To me, TimeBomb is also known as Wine in Front of Me: The Social Deduction Game. In the end, when playing against seasoned opponents, the outcome seems mostly random to me.
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Clyde W
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Mattintheweb wrote:
brendover wrote:
Just asking since with 5+ players, in the original rules, the terrorists can just pass the clippers back and forth endlessly until time runs out.
I don't think so, and we never encounter such an issue during our (numerous) games…
Did you try out the "pass clippers" strategy after you read about it here? Does it work? Just because a bug wasn't found during playtesting, no matter how numerous it was, doesn't mean it isn't there.
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Anthony C
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clydeiii wrote:
Mattintheweb wrote:
brendover wrote:
Just asking since with 5+ players, in the original rules, the terrorists can just pass the clippers back and forth endlessly until time runs out.
I don't think so, and we never encounter such an issue during our (numerous) games…
Did you try out the "pass clippers" strategy after you read about it here? Does it work? Just because a bug wasn't found during playtesting, no matter how numerous it was, doesn't mean it isn't there.


Well, let's assume the clippers strategy happens in a game with the evil players. If they pass back and forth amongst themselves, A) they might hit a wire and help the good players. B) they might run out of cards to select in later rounds, C) they might not get the clippers passed to them ever again because then the good players could just be very open about what they have in front of themselves (this would only work if you KNEW how many evil players they were all revealed).

In A) there's not much you can do if the card draw happens to put the bomb in the evil players possession. Even so, in a 4 player game, that gives them a 40% chance of success in the first round, 50% in the second round, 66% in the third round and 100% in the 4th round. If the evil players have as much information as they can, it's still not enough to outright win the game until the 4th round. And I'd assume you would know they were evil before the 4th round if they just kept passing back and forth.
In a 5 player game, percentage would be 50%-60% first round (depending on who started as the clipper and who had the bomb), 50-75% for round 2, and 66%-100% in round 3. That is a bit more difficult to counter. In the Indie Boards and Cards edition, there is a variant where you pass the wire clippers/flashlight clockwise around the table. That would eliminate the problem entirely but it is a variant.

B) They might run out of cards to select. Let's say, we are in a 5 player game and are in round 4 and the evil players have been passing the clipper back and forth the whole game because neither of them have had the bomb. After their 4th pass, they'd HAVE to pass the clippers to someone else to end the game. Granted, that's not an ideal situation but it would be funny if the last card flipped wound up winning the game for the good guys! In a 6 player game, this would still happen in round 4 but would allow 2extra card pulls in the last round. In a 7-8 player game, it would happen in the 3rd round but (according to IB&C's rules, there's the possibility of a third bomber and I'm assuming worst case scenario here so I'd say it's a lost cause with 3. But, again, with higher player counts, that problem is mitigated again with the clockwise movement of wire snipper turns.

C) they might not get the clippers ever passed to them. This is a moot point if the bad guys already have the clippers. But if they didn't, and were openly evil (not sure why they would be without the clippers) then they wouldn't get them back in their possession. To counter, I guess you pretend to be evil, get someone on your side, then try to convince everyone you're good? Easier said than done.
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Brendan Little
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dexdouglas wrote:
clydeiii wrote:
Mattintheweb wrote:
brendover wrote:
Just asking since with 5+ players, in the original rules, the terrorists can just pass the clippers back and forth endlessly until time runs out.
I don't think so, and we never encounter such an issue during our (numerous) games…
Did you try out the "pass clippers" strategy after you read about it here? Does it work? Just because a bug wasn't found during playtesting, no matter how numerous it was, doesn't mean it isn't there.


Well, let's assume the clippers strategy happens in a game with the evil players. If they pass back and forth amongst themselves, A) they might hit a wire and help the good players. B) they might run out of cards to select in later rounds, C) they might not get the clippers passed to them ever again because then the good players could just be very open about what they have in front of themselves (this would only work if you KNEW how many evil players they were all revealed).

In A) there's not much you can do if the card draw happens to put the bomb in the evil players possession. Even so, in a 4 player game, that gives them a 40% chance of success in the first round, 50% in the second round, 66% in the third round and 100% in the 4th round. If the evil players have as much information as they can, it's still not enough to outright win the game until the 4th round. And I'd assume you would know they were evil before the 4th round if they just kept passing back and forth.
In a 5 player game, percentage would be 50%-60% first round (depending on who started as the clipper and who had the bomb), 50-75% for round 2, and 66%-100% in round 3. That is a bit more difficult to counter. In the Indie Boards and Cards edition, there is a variant where you pass the wire clippers/flashlight clockwise around the table. That would eliminate the problem entirely but it is a variant.

B) They might run out of cards to select. Let's say, we are in a 5 player game and are in round 4 and the evil players have been passing the clipper back and forth the whole game because neither of them have had the bomb. After their 4th pass, they'd HAVE to pass the clippers to someone else to end the game. Granted, that's not an ideal situation but it would be funny if the last card flipped wound up winning the game for the good guys! In a 6 player game, this would still happen in round 4 but would allow 2extra card pulls in the last round. In a 7-8 player game, it would happen in the 3rd round but (according to IB&C's rules, there's the possibility of a third bomber and I'm assuming worst case scenario here so I'd say it's a lost cause with 3. But, again, with higher player counts, that problem is mitigated again with the clockwise movement of wire snipper turns.

C) they might not get the clippers ever passed to them. This is a moot point if the bad guys already have the clippers. But if they didn't, and were openly evil (not sure why they would be without the clippers) then they wouldn't get them back in their possession. To counter, I guess you pretend to be evil, get someone on your side, then try to convince everyone you're good? Easier said than done.


In the case of C), often it is impossible to avoid clipping an evil player as they might have one of the last fuses.

But that is good to know about the variant for rotating clippers. I'm sure that this variant or some other would alleviate the issue.
 
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Geoff Watson
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Mattintheweb wrote:
Thanks for your interest.
I don't know about getting a copy of the game in the US, but here's a hint about the when: the estimated release date in France is November 25th. It's still pretty far away, but I don't expect any further delay, as the files are ready as we speak.
You should see more from the game soon…


Sounds good. Will it be available for Australia?
European postage is usually a lot less than postage from America.
 
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Matthieu BONIN
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Geoff Watson wrote:
Sounds good. Will it be available for Australia?
That's really up to retailers: we only have rights for the French language and French-speaking territories… blush
 
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Kevin Gouranton
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I agree. Would be even nicer to have more variants. Like : "You cannot clip your Father"

e.g : We have a 5 players game (A, B, C, D, E)
Round 1 : Player A clips Player D
Round 2 : Player D cannot cut right away "his father". Player A in this case. He can clip Player (B, C, E)
Round 3 : Player (B, C, E) cannot cut right away "his father". Player D in this case. He can clip Player (A, B, C, E)

Etc

For information, I did few games and all the time, A bad guy would scream, I have the bomb! And if a bad guy would start with the clipper, they would start clipping each other until the bomb explode. Lame..
 
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Matthieu BONIN
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luciolles wrote:
I agree. Would be even nicer to have more variants. Like : "You cannot clip your Father"
Kinda breaks the game, I think. Part of the game is to have other people trust you enough so they keep coming at you.
luciolles wrote:
For information, I did few games and all the time, A bad guy would scream, I have the bomb! And if a bad guy would start with the clipper, they would start clipping each other until the bomb explode. Lame..
Why didn't the good guy scream they have the bomb too?
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Anthony C
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But then the good guys start screaming "I have the bomb!" Also, the game rules state that players go in order from start player stating what they have (bombs, wires, junk) so usually in the last round, everyone in my game will say they have the bomb.
 
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Kathrin
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Will this version be available for sale at in Essen 2017?
Or is the fair not possible, since it is not French-speaking territory??
 
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