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Vast: The Crystal Caverns» Forums » Rules

Subject: Moving other players rss

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David Fenton
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There's several abilities that allow moving other players.

Claw/Slap/Giant Bats specifically prevent moving the Knight onto a tile with another player. However, when a tile is collapsed, it appears that the Knight can be moved onto a space with the Dragon (underground) or Thief. Is this correct (with the reasoning that the Knight's player gets to choose the tile, not the player doing the collapsing)?

If multiple of the Dragon, Knight, Goblins and/or Thief are on a tile together when it collapses, in what order do they move off?

Can a Surfaced Dragon move into a space with a Knight or Goblin Tribe if Strength < Armor (since Knight/Goblins could not attack/plunder)?

Kind of related, is there any issue with a Knight/Goblin staying in a tile with a Surfaced Dragon (if they don't/can't have the Strength to Attack)? Rules say they can't enter the tile, but nothing about staying in one.
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David Fenton
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Kyle? Anyone?
 
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Patrick Leder
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I will try to get this today as time provides. Sorry but I am being thoughtful with the answer.
 
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David Fenton
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Thanks.

Also, (as a side question), does Flame Wall damage anyone who's already in the tile when played, or would they have to leave and re-enter it (player mat suggests the latter)?
 
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Kyle
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dsdhornet wrote:
There's several abilities that allow moving other players.

Claw/Slap/Giant Bats specifically prevent moving the Knight onto a tile with another player. However, when a tile is collapsed, it appears that the Knight can be moved onto a space with the Dragon (underground) or Thief. Is this correct (with the reasoning that the Knight's player gets to choose the tile, not the player doing the collapsing)?
Moving into a space with the Thief or underground Dragon wouldn't prompt an attack, so those are legal moves.

If there are multiple valid moves, the Knight player gets to choose where she moves regardless of who collapsed the tile.

Quote:
If multiple of the Dragon, Knight, Goblins and/or Thief are on a tile together when it collapses, in what order do they move off?
In the unlikely event of this happening, they move off the tile based on the round order (Knight first).

The Knight and Goblins are the two where this timing would matter most, but it's impossible for them to coexist on the same tile, so one would always be forced to move before the other based on the order the tiles were removed.

Quote:
Can a Surfaced Dragon move into a space with a Knight or Goblin Tribe if Strength < Armor (since Knight/Goblins could not attack/plunder)?
Yes. It would prompt an attack from the other player, but because the Dragon's armor is higher that attack would automatically fail.

Quote:
Kind of related, is there any issue with a Knight/Goblin staying in a tile with a Surfaced Dragon (if they don't/can't have the Strength to Attack)? Rules say they can't enter the tile, but nothing about staying in one.
Answered in more detail here.

Quote:
Also, (as a side question), does Flame Wall damage anyone who's already in the tile when played, or would they have to leave and re-enter it (player mat suggests the latter)?
Flame wall only affects a player when they enter the tile. If it gets placed on top of them, they are unharmed.
 
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David Fenton
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Woelf wrote:
In the unlikely event of this happening, they move off the tile based on the round order (Knight first).

Multiple players moving is fairly likely using Wrath (the right die roll can collapse an entire 3x3 area, and half the time it will collapse the Dragon's space and force it to move, often multiple spaces). If another player is in a tile surrounding the dragon, you'll affect multiple players 16% of the time...with two players in surrounding tiles you'll affect multiple players 50% of the time.

Is the "turn order" thing constant, or does it depend on who collapses the tile (i.e. if the Cave collapses the Tile, the Knight moves first since she'd be next; if the Goblin collapses the tile, the Dragon moves first since it'd move next)?

Woelf wrote:
Yes. It would prompt an attack from the other player, but because the Dragon's armor is higher that attack would automatically fail.

This is a bit surprising, since you're saying it would prompt an attack (which would fail), but most rules say you can't move into a tile that would prompt an attack (without mentioning success or failure):
Quote:
Move all other player pieces to an adjacent tile that would not prompt an attack
Quote:
If there is no adjacent tile that would not prompt an attack, ...

Are you saying that the Dragon can move there during its turn (when there is no such restriction), but when forced to move due to a collapse, it can't? Or do you mean to say that if a successful attack cannot occur, it is not prompted either (which allows the move)?

I won't argue that this would be a stupid move for the dragon (which would then be sitting on top of a Knight ready to attack), but it does make a difference if the Dragon can't move anywhere else (i.e the Dragon is required to move onto the Knight vs the tile not collapsing and it staying where it is).
 
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David Fenton
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Does Giant Bats allow moving Goblins into/through a space with the Knight, Dragon/Ash Dragon (if they have enough Strength), or Thief? The Omen specifically limits the Knight (no Dark tiles or tile with other players), but says nothing regarding Goblin movement.

I'd assume moves causing attacks would not be allowed, hence: no (Knight), yes/no (Dragon/Ash Dragon), and yes (Thief).
 
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Kyle
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dsdhornet wrote:
Does Giant Bats allow moving Goblins into/through a space with the Knight, Dragon/Ash Dragon (if they have enough Strength), or Thief? The Omen specifically limits the Knight (no Dark tiles or tile with other players), but says nothing regarding Goblin movement.

I'd assume moves causing attacks would not be allowed, hence: no (Knight), yes/no (Dragon/Ash Dragon), and yes (Thief).
Each space along the movement must be legal for the player being moved.

If it would prompt an immediate attack, you can't push the player there.
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David Fenton
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Woelf wrote:
If it would prompt an immediate attack, you can't push the player there.


Do the Goblins have to Attack the Ash Dragon? Rules on the Variant card say "may use the Attack action", so rules as written I'd say no. This would mean that the Tribe CANNOT be moved onto a tile with the Knight (it either has insufficient strength or must attack), but CAN be moved onto a tile with the Dragon/Ash Dragon if Strength > Armor.

Is this correct?
 
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Kyle
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dsdhornet wrote:
Woelf wrote:
If it would prompt an immediate attack, you can't push the player there.


Do the Goblins have to Attack the Ash Dragon? Rules on the Variant card say "may use the Attack action", so rules as written I'd say no. This would mean that the Tribe CANNOT be moved onto a tile with the Knight (it either has insufficient strength or must attack), but CAN be moved onto a tile with the Dragon/Ash Dragon if Strength > Armor.

Is this correct?
The Tribe's strength must always be greater than the dragon's armor to enter or pass through the space.

Ash Dragon only adds them the option to attack (to do damage) rather than plunder.
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David Fenton
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Woelf wrote:
Ash Dragon only adds them the option to attack (to do damage) rather than plunder.


Would this mean that moving Goblins into an Ash Dragon's space does not "Trigger an attack", since it's optional?

The reason this matters is that it defines where the Goblins can be moved either via Giant Bats or if a tile collapses. If Goblins don't HAVE to attack (and aren't "triggering one", Goblins may be moved into the Ash Dragon's space (if Strength > Armor) using Giant Bats or if a tile collapses.
 
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David Fenton
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Anyone? Can a sufficiently powered Goblin tribe move onto a space with the Ash Dragon and choose not to attack (for whatever reason)?
 
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Kyle
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As long as the Tribe's strength is greater than the Dragon's Armor, it can enter the space without attacking or plundering.

 
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