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Subject: Ranged Fight Question rss

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Patrick Reynolds
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If a hero starts a ranged fight and leaves any monsters alive, the rules state that the monsters then move and make their attack rolls if they can reach the attacking hero. The Sins player rolls dice and compares the results against the initial fight roll made by the hero.

My question is, do the hits from the hero's roll count again at this point?

For example, let's say the hero attacks a space containing an Abomination and two Acloytes, and rolls 4 hits. He chooses to destroy the Abomination. The Acolytes move and make their roll. Does the hero now apply those 4 hits again, destroying both Acolytes? Or is the hero only concerns with defense results during the mnster's counter attack?

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Dave Kudzma
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No. The hits are factored in first, and then if the monster(s) survive, and can reach the shooter, they attack as normal. At that point, only the remaining results that were not used for the attack are applied. (Counter Corruption, Defense).

The only symbol you might hold in reserve is any excess Faith that you couldn't convert into Hits to kill.
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Patrick Reynolds
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locusshifter wrote:
No. The hits are factored in first, and then if the monster(s) survive, and can reach the shooter, they attack as normal. At that point, only the remaining results that were not used for the attack are applied. (Counter Corruption, Defense).

The only symbol you might hold in reserve is any excess Faith that you couldn't convert into Hits to kill.


Where in the rules is this supported? Under ranged fights it only says that the monsters compare their rolls to the hero's initial roll. It says nothing about only using defensive results.

Don't get me wrong, I'm inclined to agree with you but I want to know for sure that I'm playing it right. The sequence of events and dice comparison for ranged attacks seems messy.
 
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Kevin Clasing
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The example on the immediately following page from where was quoted does not show ranged heroes attacking twice.

Such would be rather unbalanced in terms of hero abilities, IMO.
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Dave Kudzma
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In the ranged rules, after the Hero has applied their results, if the monsters aren't all killed, and if they can reach the hero, they roll and apply the results against the hero's results:



That alone to me says you already applied the hits, and in turn when the monster(s) retaliate, all you have left are any unused results.

The example, and more specifically its example text, makes that clear:



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Patrick Reynolds
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kclasing wrote:
The example on the immediately following page from where was quoted does not show ranged heroes attacking twice.

Such would be rather unbalanced in terms of hero abilities, IMO.


I'm not sure; it would also help bring Shooters up the par with Bruisers in monster killing ability. Also, thematically you could look at it as the monsters advancing into a hail of bullets.
 
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Diversion Architect
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Have the shooters attack the monsters in said bruiser's space!

Free hits

Shooters play different from bruisers, but are incredibly useful in the right situations.
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Flavio Santos
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pkreynolds wrote:
kclasing wrote:
The example on the immediately following page from where was quoted does not show ranged heroes attacking twice.

Such would be rather unbalanced in terms of hero abilities, IMO.


I'm not sure; it would also help bring Shooters up the par with Bruisers in monster killing ability. Also, thematically you could look at it as the monsters advancing into a hail of bullets.

It is quite obvious that they do not attack twice.
 
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CK Lai
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Flaviorbs wrote:
pkreynolds wrote:
kclasing wrote:
The example on the immediately following page from where was quoted does not show ranged heroes attacking twice.

Such would be rather unbalanced in terms of hero abilities, IMO.


I'm not sure; it would also help bring Shooters up the par with Bruisers in monster killing ability. Also, thematically you could look at it as the monsters advancing into a hail of bullets.

It is quite obvious that they do not attack twice.


The only advantage shooters have is they get a chance to take out a monster at range first, without getting into a normal opposed die roll combat.
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William Aull
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Chinkster wrote:
The only advantage shooters have is they get a chance to take out a monster at range first, without getting into a normal opposed die roll combat.


This. Or if you shoot at monsters more than 2 spaces away, or monsters in a space with another FAITH member (since monsters cant leave spaces with FAITH members).
 
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CK Lai
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Hillean wrote:
Chinkster wrote:
The only advantage shooters have is they get a chance to take out a monster at range first, without getting into a normal opposed die roll combat.


This. Or if you shoot at monsters more than 2 spaces away, or monsters in a space with another FAITH member (since monsters cant leave spaces with FAITH members).


Yes. Or a hero that's in between a monster and the shooter (since if a monster moves into a space with a hero, it can't leave that space again to reach the shooter, so that target monster won't move at all, assuming the shooter whiffed his dice rolls).
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Joel Smith
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Chinkster wrote:
Yes. Or a hero that's in between a monster and the shooter (since if a monster moves into a space with a hero, it can't leave that space again to reach the shooter, so that target monster won't move at all, assuming the shooter whiffed his dice rolls).

This and the previous comment is spot on with my thinking and should be known to Heroes. This can make for a good strategy. I'm glad some one answered my question with out it being asked
 
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Jeremiah Dixon
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I've got a question about this as well but it is about movement.
If the hero does a ranged attack 2 spaces away, thus making it his space, a middle space that has another hero in it, and then the monster's space, and the attack leaves a monster alive, when the monster moves does he move one space and stop at the space with a hero or does the monster move two spaces through the first hero in his path and into the space with the attacking hero?
 
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Dan Harrow
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Jmiahddixon wrote:
I've got a question about this as well but it is about movement.
If the hero does a ranged attack 2 spaces away, thus making it his space, a middle space that has another hero in it, and then the monster's space, and the attack leaves a monster alive, when the monster moves does he move one space and stop at the space with a hero or does the monster move two spaces through the first hero in his path and into the space with the attacking hero?

He does not move at all, because he would otherwise be forced to stop in the first space with a hero. After determining this path, since he is unable to reach the ranged attacker, he will not move, instead.
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Krzysztof Olszewski
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I have additional question here - if there are any monster left after ranged attack - are they obliged to move and attack? Or Can I, as Sins player, decide not to move?

I was playing that it is the must.
 
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Patrick Reynolds
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olsszak wrote:
I have additional question here - if there are any monster left after ranged attack - are they obliged to move and attack? Or Can I, as Sins player, decide not to move?

I was playing that it is the must.


It's not an option; if they can reach the hero and attack they must.
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Willem Moransard
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One question on ranged combat which I just want to sure on:
A "shooter" cannot attack monsters in his own space? Or can he?
 
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Dan Harrow
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fillem wrote:
One question on ranged combat which I just want to sure on:
A "shooter" cannot attack monsters in his own space? Or can he?

No, you cannot initiate ranged combat with an enemy in your same space. That's just regular "melee" combat and follows the standard combat rules.
 
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Ruud
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XeyneGaming wrote:
fillem wrote:
One question on ranged combat which I just want to sure on:
A "shooter" cannot attack monsters in his own space? Or can he?

No, you cannot initiate ranged combat with an enemy in your same space. That's just regular "melee" combat and follows the standard combat rules.


Can a ranged character also fight melee?
 
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Paul Glickman
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yes.
 
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Dan Harrow
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Ruud2009 wrote:
XeyneGaming wrote:
fillem wrote:
One question on ranged combat which I just want to sure on:
A "shooter" cannot attack monsters in his own space? Or can he?

No, you cannot initiate ranged combat with an enemy in your same space. That's just regular "melee" combat and follows the standard combat rules.


Can a ranged character also fight melee?

Yep! They just don't get the benefits of ranged combat, such as hitting first, or any ranged combat-specific hero powers.
 
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Ruud
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XeyneGaming wrote:
Ruud2009 wrote:
XeyneGaming wrote:
fillem wrote:
One question on ranged combat which I just want to sure on:
A "shooter" cannot attack monsters in his own space? Or can he?

No, you cannot initiate ranged combat with an enemy in your same space. That's just regular "melee" combat and follows the standard combat rules.


Can a ranged character also fight melee?

Yep! They just don't get the benefits of ranged combat, such as hitting first, or any ranged combat-specific hero powers.


Ah. we (Fillem, me) interpreted it as exclusively ranged. Meaning they couldn't attack melee.
 
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Dan Harrow
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Ruud2009 wrote:
Ah. we (Fillem, me) interpreted it as exclusively ranged. Meaning they couldn't attack melee.

Ah, ok. Yeah, they can attack in melee range via the normal combat rules when they need to... generally because the Sin player has managed to move a Monster into their space and they no longer have a choice but to fight!
 
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Ruud
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XeyneGaming wrote:
Ruud2009 wrote:
Ah. we (Fillem, me) interpreted it as exclusively ranged. Meaning they couldn't attack melee.

Ah, ok. Yeah, they can attack in melee range via the normal combat rules when they need to... generally because the Sin player has managed to move a Monster into their space and they no longer have a choice but to fight!


Could somebody please refer us to the page in the rulebook where this is mentioned, and/or quote the rulebook? Yesterday (during play) we couldn't find it. Thanks!
 
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Willem Moransard
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XeyneGaming wrote:
Ruud2009 wrote:
XeyneGaming wrote:
fillem wrote:
One question on ranged combat which I just want to sure on:
A "shooter" cannot attack monsters in his own space? Or can he?

No, you cannot initiate ranged combat with an enemy in your same space. That's just regular "melee" combat and follows the standard combat rules.


Can a ranged character also fight melee?

Yep! They just don't get the benefits of ranged combat, such as hitting first, or any ranged combat-specific hero powers.


This changes everything!
 
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