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Subject: End of Turn Sequence - Villians with Influence Rewards rss

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Min Nemoy
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If the End of Turn actions occur in the order listed, it appears that the player who defeats a villian would not be able to use any influence they are rewarded.

Example: Quirinus Quirrell, Game 1

During Step 3: Hero Actions. I place the 6th attack on Quirrell.

Step 4.2: Check to see if Quirrell is defeated. He is. Hooray. Receive 1 influence, but I am already past Step 3 and can't use tokens any longer.

Step 4.5: Discard tokens, including the one I just got in 4.2, hence there was no possible way for me to use my reward before it went poof.

Is this correct? Seems unfair.
 
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Brian Mayer
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I must be playing wrong then. I had always immediately resolved the defeat of the villain(s) rather than at the end of the round. I don't have the rules in front of me. Does it say to wait until the end of the round to resolve the villains defeat?
 
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Benjamin Dumas
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In the rules during end of turn phase you check to see if any villains have enough attack on them to be defeated. But in the back of the book under fighting and defeating villains it explains that as soon as a villain has enough to defeat them you resolve the reward immediately. You just move them to the discard location at the end of the turn and then replace them with the next villain also at the end of the turn, rewards are instant. Or at least that's how my wife and I read it and have been playing it.
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Drew Johansen
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Benjamin's correct. I learned the game from the staff at GenCon, and you do receive the reward immediately upon defeating the villain. What you're checking for in the End Step is whether a new villain needs to be revealed to replace a defeated one.
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Rob Duncan
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RulesGuru wrote:
Benjamin's correct. I learned the game from the staff at GenCon, and you do receive the reward immediately upon defeating the villain. What you're checking for in the End Step is whether a new villain needs to be revealed to replace a defeated one.


Precisely this.
 
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Seth Goodnight
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trombonebull wrote:
In the rules during end of turn phase you check to see if any villains have enough attack on them to be defeated. But in the back of the book under fighting and defeating villains it explains that as soon as a villain has enough to defeat them you resolve the reward immediately. You just move them to the discard location at the end of the turn and then replace them with the next villain also at the end of the turn, rewards are instant. Or at least that's how my wife and I read it and have been playing it.


That's a really important distinction when it comes to locations too! We had the location filled up and defeated a villain that removes a token. From the list at the back, it looked like we lost the location, but we missed the part about getting the reward right away.
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Rob Duncan
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Darwins_Dog wrote:
trombonebull wrote:
In the rules during end of turn phase you check to see if any villains have enough attack on them to be defeated. But in the back of the book under fighting and defeating villains it explains that as soon as a villain has enough to defeat them you resolve the reward immediately. You just move them to the discard location at the end of the turn and then replace them with the next villain also at the end of the turn, rewards are instant. Or at least that's how my wife and I read it and have been playing it.


That's a really important distinction when it comes to locations too! We had the location filled up and defeated a villain that removes a token. From the list at the back, it looked like we lost the location, but we missed the part about getting the reward right away.


You only lose the location if, at the end of the current turn, the villain is not defeated or the current player cannot find a way to remove a control marker.
 
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Brian VanNatta
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As a follow up to this, since someone mentioned it, "You only lose the location if, at the end of the current turn, the villain is not defeated or the current player cannot find a way to remove a control marker."

Is this an extra reward that happens with each villian (I didn't see mention in the defeating villians sections)? Or is it with certain villians, the last villian, or is it only when the location would be lost that this condition occurs and you remove one for defeating the (a?) villain. I only read the base rule book, and haven't looked into game 2 or higher, so maybe this is explained later.
 
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Rob Duncan
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Longly wrote:
As a follow up to this, since someone mentioned it, "You only lose the location if, at the end of the current turn, the villain is not defeated or the current player cannot find a way to remove a control marker."

Is this an extra reward that happens with each villian (I didn't see mention in the defeating villians sections)? Or is it with certain villians, the last villian, or is it only when the location would be lost that this condition occurs and you remove one for defeating the (a?) villain. I only read the base rule book, and haven't looked into game 2 or higher, so maybe this is explained later.



A location being overrun is only assessed for at the end of the current player's turn.
 
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Seth Goodnight
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Longly wrote:
As a follow up to this, since someone mentioned it, "You only lose the location if, at the end of the current turn, the villain is not defeated or the current player cannot find a way to remove a control marker."

Is this an extra reward that happens with each villian (I didn't see mention in the defeating villians sections)? Or is it with certain villians, the last villian, or is it only when the location would be lost that this condition occurs and you remove one for defeating the (a?) villain. I only read the base rule book, and haven't looked into game 2 or higher, so maybe this is explained later.


Some of the villains have a reward that removes a control token from the location. My previous comment was that we missed the rule about getting the rewards right away, which made the game a bit harder for the heroes.
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Bryan Machen
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Darwins_Dog wrote:
Longly wrote:
As a follow up to this, since someone mentioned it, "You only lose the location if, at the end of the current turn, the villain is not defeated or the current player cannot find a way to remove a control marker."

Is this an extra reward that happens with each villian (I didn't see mention in the defeating villians sections)? Or is it with certain villians, the last villian, or is it only when the location would be lost that this condition occurs and you remove one for defeating the (a?) villain. I only read the base rule book, and haven't looked into game 2 or higher, so maybe this is explained later.


Some of the villains have a reward that removes a control token from the location. My previous comment was that we missed the rule about getting the rewards right away, which made the game a bit harder for the heroes.


If a location has reached it's control token limit and you defeat a villain whose reward doesn't include removing a token is that location lost? So defeating a villain doesn't necessarily save the location, only if their reward removes a token, correct?
 
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Russell Malo
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bryistupid wrote:
If a location has reached it's control token limit and you defeat a villain whose reward doesn't include removing a token is that location lost? So defeating a villain doesn't necessarily save the location, only if their reward removes a token, correct?


That's correct. Unless it is the last villain, then the game is won!
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Rob Duncan
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gotrek987 wrote:
bryistupid wrote:
If a location has reached it's control token limit and you defeat a villain whose reward doesn't include removing a token is that location lost? So defeating a villain doesn't necessarily save the location, only if their reward removes a token, correct?


That's correct. Unless it is the last villain, then the game is won!


Well I'm almost certain that the other way a full location will not be lost is if the current player plays a card/ability that will remove a location marker.
 
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Jarrod Babel
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bryistupid wrote:
[q="Darwins_Dog"]

If a location has reached it's control token limit and you defeat a villain whose reward doesn't include removing a token is that location lost? So defeating a villain doesn't necessarily save the location, only if their reward removes a token, correct?


Correct, defeating a villain doesn't auto guarantee a location is safe (unless it's the last villain then you win, hooray!).
I game 1 only draco's reward removes a control marker as a reward for his defeat (note-there are other hogwarts cards that remove them).
That's why checking location control is an end of turn effect (since villain rewards happen in step 3 when attack is assigned).
 
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B C Z
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Villians are defeated the moment they take enough lightning bolts. Their award is granted immediately, but they are not replaced until end of turn.

Other important timing things that are easy to miss, especially if you're used to playing other Deck Builders:

You can assign some generated attack tokens mid-way through your turn and then keep playing cards. This flows from some of the villians rewards being card draws, but also lets you take out a villian preventing an action (like healing) and then play a card granting that action.


You can make a purchase of a card mid-way through your turn and then keep playing cards. Usually cards go to your discard, so that's not much of an incentive, but if the discard is about to reshuffle due to a draw, or if you're placing cards directly on top of your deck, it can matter.
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