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Steven Woodcock
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Well, that will ruin your day:

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2016/02/us-marshals-for...
 
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J
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I believe we had a thread on this topic at the time.
 
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Walking on eggshells is not my style
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Topic has ceased to be an issue since Bernie is out of the picture. But it was red meat for the ignorant at the time. They've moved on to Trump's tax returns.
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Josh
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How is it private debt collectors get to call US mMrshalls on people?
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It's Texas, I'm just glad they can't outright execute them.
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Walking on eggshells is not my style
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jmilum wrote:
It's Texas, I'm just glad they can't outright execute them.


It's federal. Nice try.
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Koldfoot wrote:
jmilum wrote:
It's Texas, I'm just glad they can't outright execute them.


It's federal. Nice try.

In Texas! It's legal to shoot a fleeing thief there, as long as it's after dark.
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jeremy cobert
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jmilum wrote:
In Texas! It's legal to shoot a fleeing thief there, as long as it's after dark.


False, In Texas, thieves are free to not get shot by not trying to steal. It's their choice to steal.
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Boaty McBoatface
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jeremycobert wrote:
jmilum wrote:
In Texas! It's legal to shoot a fleeing thief there, as long as it's after dark.


False, In Texas, thieves are free to not get shot by not trying to steal. It their choice to steal.
Then they wouild not be thieves.

So I think you meant "they are free to not be thieves".

It's not that hard.

As to the topic, good why the hell should they get to ponce of people, it's a loan pay it back.
 
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Carl Parsons
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Koldfoot wrote:
Topic has ceased to be an issue since Bernie is out of the picture. But it was red meat for the ignorant at the time. They've moved on to Trump's tax returns.


Irony is someone whining about every thread being about Trump when that person is actually making every thread about Trump.
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Shawn Fox
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jmilum wrote:
Koldfoot wrote:
jmilum wrote:
It's Texas, I'm just glad they can't outright execute them.


It's federal. Nice try.

In Texas! It's legal to shoot a fleeing thief there, as long as it's after dark.

I believe the rule is that you can shoot a thief if you reasonably believe there is no way you'll be able to recover what they have stolen. So you can't shoot someone for stealing your car, but you can for stealing your food.

In any case, I've never understood the liberal penchant for defending criminals. I've got no problem with someone, either a homeowner or a police officer, shooting a criminal. If you don't want to get shot, stop stealing shit.
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Chapel
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Well to be fair, the Marshals aren't arresting people for outstanding loans, they are arresting people who are in contempt of court.

Debt isn't illegal, ignoring a summons is.
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Josh
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sfox wrote:
jmilum wrote:
Koldfoot wrote:
jmilum wrote:
It's Texas, I'm just glad they can't outright execute them.


It's federal. Nice try.

In Texas! It's legal to shoot a fleeing thief there, as long as it's after dark.

I believe the rule is that you can shoot a thief if you reasonably believe there is no way you'll be able what they have stolen. So you can't shoot someone for stealing your car, but you can for stealing your food.

In any case, I've never understood the liberal penchant for defending criminals. I've got no problem with someone, either a homeowner or a police officer, shooting a criminal. If you don't want to get shot, stop stealing shit.


It's the 'shoot someone and claim they were a criminal' that follows that is the problem. Also, it's not exactly a case of 'oops my bad' if you were mistaken.
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Isaac Citrom
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Shadrach wrote:
It's the 'shoot someone and claim they were a criminal' that follows that is the problem. Also, it's not exactly a case of 'oops my bad' if you were mistaken.


Right, you go to prison if you were mistaken.

I'm asking: Is it a problem in Texas such that people are being mistakenly shot while robbing when they actually weren't?
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Michael Carter
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sfox wrote:
jmilum wrote:
Koldfoot wrote:
jmilum wrote:
It's Texas, I'm just glad they can't outright execute them.


It's federal. Nice try.

In Texas! It's legal to shoot a fleeing thief there, as long as it's after dark.

I believe the rule is that you can shoot a thief if you reasonably believe there is no way you'll be able to recover what they have stolen. So you can't shoot someone for stealing your car, but you can for stealing your food.

In any case, I've never understood the liberal penchant for defending criminals. I've got no problem with someone, either a homeowner or a police officer, shooting a criminal. If you don't want to get shot, stop stealing shit.


There is this thing called due process that you should read about. While you are at it, take a look at cruel and unusual punishment as well.
 
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Shawn Fox
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Shadrach wrote:
It's the 'shoot someone and claim they were a criminal' that follows that is the problem. Also, it's not exactly a case of 'oops my bad' if you were mistaken.

That is life, everything has winners and losers. The question is, does it overall have a positive effect. I'm not concerned that there will be a few accidental deaths (or purposeful murders) if it reduces burglaries. I believe the knowledge that it is legal to shoot a thief in Texas does reduce crime to some extent, but it is obviously very hard to actually prove that.
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Drew1365 wrote:
slatersteven wrote:
As to the topic, good why the hell should they get to ponce of people, it's a loan pay it back.


Paying what you owe is for suckers. Just refuse to pay, like this principled New York Times writer did.

Quote:
Years later, I found myself confronted with a choice that too many people have had to and will have to face. I could give up what had become my vocation (in my case, being a writer) and take a job that I didn’t want in order to repay the huge debt I had accumulated in college and graduate school. Or I could take what I had been led to believe was both the morally and legally reprehensible step of defaulting on my student loans, which was the only way I could survive without wasting my life in a job that had nothing to do with my particular usefulness to society.

I chose life. That is to say, I defaulted on my student loans.

As difficult as it has been, I’ve never looked back. The millions of young people today, who collectively owe over $1 trillion in loans, may want to consider my example.


See? He chose following his bliss instead of actually repaying his debt. He "chose life" as he insists. He didn't want to "waste his life" working at a different job to pay back what he owed. He wanted to basically be a leech on society.

And he suggests people follow his example.


That article is unbelievable. "First marry someone with good credit."
.
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Born To Lose, Live To Win
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sfox wrote:
That is life, everything has winners and losers. The question is, does it overall have a positive effect. I'm not concerned that there will be a few accidental deaths (or purposeful murders) if it reduces burglaries. I believe the knowledge that it is legal to shoot a thief in Texas does reduce crime to some extent, but it is obviously very hard to actually prove that.
Sorry, I don't want to get shot jogging past someones house to hypothetically protect your xbox in a future crime.
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Christopher Yaure
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MWChapel wrote:
Well to be fair, the Marshals aren't arresting people for outstanding loans, they are arresting people who are in contempt of court.

Debt isn't illegal, ignoring a summons is.


You appear to have misread the article. No ignored summonses in Texas, just willful nonpayment of a debt. In effect, debtors' prisons have returned.

Quote:
In 2003, U.S. marshals were arresting people in the Twin Cities who had not paid their student loans as part of the so-called “Operation Anaconda Squeeze.” But as with any case in the U.S., where debtors’ prisons have been outlawed since 1833, those arrests came from contempt-of-court warrants issued after summonses had been ignored; that does not appear to have happened here. Particularly since the financial crisis of the 2000s, debt imprisonment has grown, and a judge can issue a contempt warrant if he or she feels that a debtor is “willfully” not paying a loan.
(emphasis added)
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Shawn Fox
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TheChin! wrote:
sfox wrote:
That is life, everything has winners and losers. The question is, does it overall have a positive effect. I'm not concerned that there will be a few accidental deaths (or purposeful murders) if it reduces burglaries. I believe the knowledge that it is legal to shoot a thief in Texas does reduce crime to some extent, but it is obviously very hard to actually prove that.
Sorry, I don't want to get shot jogging past someones house to hypothetically protect your xbox in a future crime.

Jogging along the street, it is far more likely you get run over by a car than get shot for being mistaken as a thief. Are you in favor of banning people from driving as well?

This is the problem with such arguments, they ignore reality. In theory, you could be mistaken for a criminal. In practice, it virtually never happens. You are using the same flawed logic as a parent who obsesses over the risk of their child being abducted while they walk to school but ignores the risk that they will be molested by their priest, coach, teacher, etc.
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Born To Lose, Live To Win
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sfox wrote:
Jogging along the street, it is far more likely you get run over by a car than get shot for being mistaken as a thief. Are you in favor of banning people from driving as well?

This is the problem with such arguments, they ignore reality. In theory, you could be mistaken for a criminal. In practice, it virtually never happens. You are using the same flawed logic as a parent who obsesses over the risk of their child being abducted while they walk to school but ignores the risk that they will be molested by their priest, coach, teacher, etc.
No, I am not ignoring those other risks, they are just that... OTHER risks. What I don't want to do is add MORE risk for dubious value. My and my loved ones lives are far more valuable that the value of your OLED TV. I don't want any of us to be sacrifices as examples for criminals.

As for the logical fallacy you present, I can turn it around. It is far more likely you will be stolen from by being overcharged at the register at the grocery store, should you be able to shoot cashiers as they leave the store after their shift? Sounds dumb doesn't it?
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Michael Carter
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Drew1365 wrote:
mlcarter815 wrote:
There is this thing called due process that you should read about. While you are at it, take a look at cruel and unusual punishment as well.


Due process is only for the elite. Sorry.


Apparently so judging by the affluent white guys getting away with rape.
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Michael Carter
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sfox wrote:
Shadrach wrote:
It's the 'shoot someone and claim they were a criminal' that follows that is the problem. Also, it's not exactly a case of 'oops my bad' if you were mistaken.

That is life, everything has winners and losers. The question is, does it overall have a positive effect. I'm not concerned that there will be a few accidental deaths (or purposeful murders) if it reduces burglaries. I believe the knowledge that it is legal to shoot a thief in Texas does reduce crime to some extent, but it is obviously very hard to actually prove that.


Your Xbox is that valuable to you that you would freely give up someone's rights?

I am fully prepared to kill someone who is threatening my life or someone else's life, but shooting someone over them stealing an item is silly.
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Born To Lose, Live To Win
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This all ignores that property crime, with no element of bodily harm risk for the victim, does not warrant a death sentence.

If you have a relative who has been lead down the wrong path and is now desperately addicted to drugs and they steal a TV to trade for drugs, would you rather they are shot in the back on someones lawn while fleeing? Or should they be arrested and given drug treatment with the potential for putting their lives together and being a loved member of your family. That is the problem with these sorts of laws/arguments, they don't take into account reality. Not every burglar is an anti-social waste of human life who deserves to die. They very well may be very valuable people to their loved ones who need help desperately. Average homeowners should not be the arbiters of life and death unless their own life is threatened.
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Chapel
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actuaryesquire wrote:
MWChapel wrote:
Well to be fair, the Marshals aren't arresting people for outstanding loans, they are arresting people who are in contempt of court.

Debt isn't illegal, ignoring a summons is.


You appear to have misread the article. No ignored summonses in Texas, just willful nonpayment of a debt. In effect, debtors' prisons have returned.

Quote:
In 2003, U.S. marshals were arresting people in the Twin Cities who had not paid their student loans as part of the so-called “Operation Anaconda Squeeze.” But as with any case in the U.S., where debtors’ prisons have been outlawed since 1833, those arrests came from contempt-of-court warrants issued after summonses had been ignored; that does not appear to have happened here. Particularly since the financial crisis of the 2000s, debt imprisonment has grown, and a judge can issue a contempt warrant if he or she feels that a debtor is “willfully” not paying a loan.
(emphasis added)


No, the writers of that article got it wrong.

Quote:
Marshals had made several attempts to contact Aker to appear in federal court, according to Hunter. Notices were sent to numerous known addresses. Marshals spoke with Aker by phone and requested that he appear in court, but Aker refused, a statement from officials said. So a federal judge issued a warrant for Aker’s arrest for failing to appear at a December 2012 hearing.

“A big misconception is people are being arrested for not paying their loans, when in fact they are being arrested for failure to appear in court,” Hunter said. “At the point the U.S. marshals show up at your door, there have been months — perhaps many years — of notices, summons, et cetera, issued.”


So, no, debtors prisons have not returned.
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