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Steven Woodcock
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Well, that will ruin your day:

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2016/02/us-marshals-for...
 
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J
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I believe we had a thread on this topic at the time.
 
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Based upon my poor understanding of history, science, and ethics...
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Topic has ceased to be an issue since Bernie is out of the picture. But it was red meat for the ignorant at the time. They've moved on to Trump's tax returns.
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Josh
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How is it private debt collectors get to call US mMrshalls on people?
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J
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It's Texas, I'm just glad they can't outright execute them.
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Based upon my poor understanding of history, science, and ethics...
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jmilum wrote:
It's Texas, I'm just glad they can't outright execute them.


It's federal. Nice try.
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J
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Koldfoot wrote:
jmilum wrote:
It's Texas, I'm just glad they can't outright execute them.


It's federal. Nice try.

In Texas! It's legal to shoot a fleeing thief there, as long as it's after dark.
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jeremy cobert
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cedar rapids
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jmilum wrote:
In Texas! It's legal to shoot a fleeing thief there, as long as it's after dark.


False, In Texas, thieves are free to not get shot by not trying to steal. It's their choice to steal.
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Boaty McBoatface
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jeremycobert wrote:
jmilum wrote:
In Texas! It's legal to shoot a fleeing thief there, as long as it's after dark.


False, In Texas, thieves are free to not get shot by not trying to steal. It their choice to steal.
Then they wouild not be thieves.

So I think you meant "they are free to not be thieves".

It's not that hard.

As to the topic, good why the hell should they get to ponce of people, it's a loan pay it back.
 
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Carl Parsons
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Koldfoot wrote:
Topic has ceased to be an issue since Bernie is out of the picture. But it was red meat for the ignorant at the time. They've moved on to Trump's tax returns.


Irony is someone whining about every thread being about Trump when that person is actually making every thread about Trump.
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Shawn Fox
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jmilum wrote:
Koldfoot wrote:
jmilum wrote:
It's Texas, I'm just glad they can't outright execute them.


It's federal. Nice try.

In Texas! It's legal to shoot a fleeing thief there, as long as it's after dark.

I believe the rule is that you can shoot a thief if you reasonably believe there is no way you'll be able to recover what they have stolen. So you can't shoot someone for stealing your car, but you can for stealing your food.

In any case, I've never understood the liberal penchant for defending criminals. I've got no problem with someone, either a homeowner or a police officer, shooting a criminal. If you don't want to get shot, stop stealing shit.
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Chapel
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Well to be fair, the Marshals aren't arresting people for outstanding loans, they are arresting people who are in contempt of court.

Debt isn't illegal, ignoring a summons is.
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Drew
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Thanks for the rent-free space in your head. Would have been nice if you'd cleaned it up a bit before you rented it out, though.
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Shadrach wrote:
How is it private debt collectors get to call US mMrshalls on people?


Doesn't the government pretty much run the student loan scam business these days?

This is what "big government" looks like, guys! Yay, big government!
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Josh
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sfox wrote:
jmilum wrote:
Koldfoot wrote:
jmilum wrote:
It's Texas, I'm just glad they can't outright execute them.


It's federal. Nice try.

In Texas! It's legal to shoot a fleeing thief there, as long as it's after dark.

I believe the rule is that you can shoot a thief if you reasonably believe there is no way you'll be able what they have stolen. So you can't shoot someone for stealing your car, but you can for stealing your food.

In any case, I've never understood the liberal penchant for defending criminals. I've got no problem with someone, either a homeowner or a police officer, shooting a criminal. If you don't want to get shot, stop stealing shit.


It's the 'shoot someone and claim they were a criminal' that follows that is the problem. Also, it's not exactly a case of 'oops my bad' if you were mistaken.
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Drew
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Thanks for the rent-free space in your head. Would have been nice if you'd cleaned it up a bit before you rented it out, though.
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slatersteven wrote:
As to the topic, good why the hell should they get to ponce of people, it's a loan pay it back.


Paying what you owe is for suckers. Just refuse to pay, like this principled New York Times writer did.

Quote:
Years later, I found myself confronted with a choice that too many people have had to and will have to face. I could give up what had become my vocation (in my case, being a writer) and take a job that I didn’t want in order to repay the huge debt I had accumulated in college and graduate school. Or I could take what I had been led to believe was both the morally and legally reprehensible step of defaulting on my student loans, which was the only way I could survive without wasting my life in a job that had nothing to do with my particular usefulness to society.

I chose life. That is to say, I defaulted on my student loans.

As difficult as it has been, I’ve never looked back. The millions of young people today, who collectively owe over $1 trillion in loans, may want to consider my example.


See? He chose following his bliss instead of actually repaying his debt. He "chose life" as he insists. He didn't want to "waste his life" working at a different job to pay back what he owed. He wanted to basically be a leech on society.

And he suggests people follow his example.

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Isaac Citrom
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Shadrach wrote:
It's the 'shoot someone and claim they were a criminal' that follows that is the problem. Also, it's not exactly a case of 'oops my bad' if you were mistaken.


Right, you go to prison if you were mistaken.

I'm asking: Is it a problem in Texas such that people are being mistakenly shot while robbing when they actually weren't?
.
 
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Michael Carter
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sfox wrote:
jmilum wrote:
Koldfoot wrote:
jmilum wrote:
It's Texas, I'm just glad they can't outright execute them.


It's federal. Nice try.

In Texas! It's legal to shoot a fleeing thief there, as long as it's after dark.

I believe the rule is that you can shoot a thief if you reasonably believe there is no way you'll be able to recover what they have stolen. So you can't shoot someone for stealing your car, but you can for stealing your food.

In any case, I've never understood the liberal penchant for defending criminals. I've got no problem with someone, either a homeowner or a police officer, shooting a criminal. If you don't want to get shot, stop stealing shit.


There is this thing called due process that you should read about. While you are at it, take a look at cruel and unusual punishment as well.
 
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Drew
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Thanks for the rent-free space in your head. Would have been nice if you'd cleaned it up a bit before you rented it out, though.
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mlcarter815 wrote:
There is this thing called due process that you should read about. While you are at it, take a look at cruel and unusual punishment as well.


Due process is only for the elite. Sorry.
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Shawn Fox
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Shadrach wrote:
It's the 'shoot someone and claim they were a criminal' that follows that is the problem. Also, it's not exactly a case of 'oops my bad' if you were mistaken.

That is life, everything has winners and losers. The question is, does it overall have a positive effect. I'm not concerned that there will be a few accidental deaths (or purposeful murders) if it reduces burglaries. I believe the knowledge that it is legal to shoot a thief in Texas does reduce crime to some extent, but it is obviously very hard to actually prove that.
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Isaac Citrom
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Drew1365 wrote:
slatersteven wrote:
As to the topic, good why the hell should they get to ponce of people, it's a loan pay it back.


Paying what you owe is for suckers. Just refuse to pay, like this principled New York Times writer did.

Quote:
Years later, I found myself confronted with a choice that too many people have had to and will have to face. I could give up what had become my vocation (in my case, being a writer) and take a job that I didn’t want in order to repay the huge debt I had accumulated in college and graduate school. Or I could take what I had been led to believe was both the morally and legally reprehensible step of defaulting on my student loans, which was the only way I could survive without wasting my life in a job that had nothing to do with my particular usefulness to society.

I chose life. That is to say, I defaulted on my student loans.

As difficult as it has been, I’ve never looked back. The millions of young people today, who collectively owe over $1 trillion in loans, may want to consider my example.


See? He chose following his bliss instead of actually repaying his debt. He "chose life" as he insists. He didn't want to "waste his life" working at a different job to pay back what he owed. He wanted to basically be a leech on society.

And he suggests people follow his example.


That article is unbelievable. "First marry someone with good credit."
.
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Born To Lose, Live To Win
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sfox wrote:
That is life, everything has winners and losers. The question is, does it overall have a positive effect. I'm not concerned that there will be a few accidental deaths (or purposeful murders) if it reduces burglaries. I believe the knowledge that it is legal to shoot a thief in Texas does reduce crime to some extent, but it is obviously very hard to actually prove that.
Sorry, I don't want to get shot jogging past someones house to hypothetically protect your xbox in a future crime.
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Christopher Yaure
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MWChapel wrote:
Well to be fair, the Marshals aren't arresting people for outstanding loans, they are arresting people who are in contempt of court.

Debt isn't illegal, ignoring a summons is.


You appear to have misread the article. No ignored summonses in Texas, just willful nonpayment of a debt. In effect, debtors' prisons have returned.

Quote:
In 2003, U.S. marshals were arresting people in the Twin Cities who had not paid their student loans as part of the so-called “Operation Anaconda Squeeze.” But as with any case in the U.S., where debtors’ prisons have been outlawed since 1833, those arrests came from contempt-of-court warrants issued after summonses had been ignored; that does not appear to have happened here. Particularly since the financial crisis of the 2000s, debt imprisonment has grown, and a judge can issue a contempt warrant if he or she feels that a debtor is “willfully” not paying a loan.
(emphasis added)
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Shawn Fox
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TheChin! wrote:
sfox wrote:
That is life, everything has winners and losers. The question is, does it overall have a positive effect. I'm not concerned that there will be a few accidental deaths (or purposeful murders) if it reduces burglaries. I believe the knowledge that it is legal to shoot a thief in Texas does reduce crime to some extent, but it is obviously very hard to actually prove that.
Sorry, I don't want to get shot jogging past someones house to hypothetically protect your xbox in a future crime.

Jogging along the street, it is far more likely you get run over by a car than get shot for being mistaken as a thief. Are you in favor of banning people from driving as well?

This is the problem with such arguments, they ignore reality. In theory, you could be mistaken for a criminal. In practice, it virtually never happens. You are using the same flawed logic as a parent who obsesses over the risk of their child being abducted while they walk to school but ignores the risk that they will be molested by their priest, coach, teacher, etc.
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Drew
United States
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isaacc wrote:
Drew1365 wrote:
slatersteven wrote:
As to the topic, good why the hell should they get to ponce of people, it's a loan pay it back.


Paying what you owe is for suckers. Just refuse to pay, like this principled New York Times writer did.

Quote:
Years later, I found myself confronted with a choice that too many people have had to and will have to face. I could give up what had become my vocation (in my case, being a writer) and take a job that I didn’t want in order to repay the huge debt I had accumulated in college and graduate school. Or I could take what I had been led to believe was both the morally and legally reprehensible step of defaulting on my student loans, which was the only way I could survive without wasting my life in a job that had nothing to do with my particular usefulness to society.

I chose life. That is to say, I defaulted on my student loans.

As difficult as it has been, I’ve never looked back. The millions of young people today, who collectively owe over $1 trillion in loans, may want to consider my example.


See? He chose following his bliss instead of actually repaying his debt. He "chose life" as he insists. He didn't want to "waste his life" working at a different job to pay back what he owed. He wanted to basically be a leech on society.

And he suggests people follow his example.


That article is unbelievable. "First marry someone with good credit."
.


But you just don't understand! He took out those enormous loans to attend a private university because he was reaching beyond his lower-middle-class origins! He didn't want a nice, stable job as district manager, he wanted to become a "professional reader and writer!"

If he'd gone into a lucrative career, "self-disgust and lifelong unhappiness [would] destroy a precious young life."
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Born To Lose, Live To Win
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sfox wrote:
Jogging along the street, it is far more likely you get run over by a car than get shot for being mistaken as a thief. Are you in favor of banning people from driving as well?

This is the problem with such arguments, they ignore reality. In theory, you could be mistaken for a criminal. In practice, it virtually never happens. You are using the same flawed logic as a parent who obsesses over the risk of their child being abducted while they walk to school but ignores the risk that they will be molested by their priest, coach, teacher, etc.
No, I am not ignoring those other risks, they are just that... OTHER risks. What I don't want to do is add MORE risk for dubious value. My and my loved ones lives are far more valuable that the value of your OLED TV. I don't want any of us to be sacrifices as examples for criminals.

As for the logical fallacy you present, I can turn it around. It is far more likely you will be stolen from by being overcharged at the register at the grocery store, should you be able to shoot cashiers as they leave the store after their shift? Sounds dumb doesn't it?
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