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Subject: NVA Attack Bot rss

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Bruce Wigdor
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Quote:
WHICH NVA ATTACK: Once spaces are selected, Attack only as follows, in the following order among spaces of the same priority above:

• If there are at least 4 NVA Troops in the selected space, the Troops Attack.

• Where there are fewer than 4 NVA Troops and NVA Ambush is possible, Ambush—first with Guerrillas on LoCs—until no further Ambush spaces are allowed. (Check now to see if Ambushing per below is possible; if not, Bombard per below before any Attacks if enemies would remain for Attacks to remove).

• Where there are fewer than 4 NVA Troops and NVA Ambush is not possible, Attack with Guerrillas only if there are at least 4 NVA Guerrillas.

• Among remaining selected spaces...


I have a lot of confusion about the 2nd bullet. Every other bullet refers to a single selected space and how to deal with it, but the 2nd bullet seems like it might be talking about something else.

Let me start with a simple question, after which I will probably have follow ups. Does the second bullet only allow for Ambushing in the selected space, or may other spaces be targeted at this time?
 
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Jason Sherlock
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This is a lot clearer if you look at the Non-player NVA handout.

When looking at the Ambush section, it states on bullet point 2: "...including adjacent enemies from LOC's"
 
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Bruce Wigdor
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OK, so it just applies to the selected space?

So am I resolving this correctly?

I am going to be attacking in several spaces, including several spaces where an Ambush would be possible. However, the highest priority space is Central Laos, where there are just 2 NVA troops and 1 ARVN cube and no ambush is possible.

Resolving the attack in Central Laos, I do not have 4 troops, so I check instead for Ambush in Central Laos. None is possible, so I Bombard instead, and then attack with the 2 NVA troops.

I then continue in the other spaces, but no Ambush is possible, because I have used Bombardment as my Special Action.

Correct?
 
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Oerjan Ariander
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The phrasing of this NP instruction is awkward because the selected spaces, aka "Attack spaces", are not always the same as the target spaces. Per rule 3.3.3, in an Attack Operation (including Ambushes) you select and pay for each space where Attacking (Ambushing) units are located. In the case of a LoC Ambush, you select the LoC itself as the Attack space. The target space OTOH is the one from which the enemy units were removed. This is usually the same as the selected Attack space... except in the case of a LoC Ambush, when it may instead be adjacent to the selected space.

During the NVAbot Attack, you first pick your target spaces per the first set of four bullets in 8.6.2 (the ones you didn't quote), and determine the Attack (including Ambush) spaces that would allow you to remove enemies from those target spaces. This selection also gives you the main priority order that you will eventually resolve the Attacks on those spaces in.

Note that you aren't actually resolving any of the Attack spaces yet, and thus have not yet committed to actually using any Ambush; you're just listing the spaces you want to strike with your Attack and noting which of them where you might want or need to use an Ambush to strike.

Once you have chosen the target spaces per above, you use the next set of four bullets (the ones you did quote) to determine with what units, and from what Attack spaces (in case the "what units" check tells you to use an Ambush), you will resolve the Attack on those spaces. Note "will resolve"; you're still just planning the operation and haven't resolved any part of it! In case the initial target-picking bullets left you with target spaces that have equal priority, this second set of bullets also helps you sort out the exact order between them.

At this point, if you find that no Ambush will be used anywhere during the Attack Operation, you use Bombard instead. (If it is used at all, it is used before resolving the Attacks in order to reduce the risk of Attrition.)

THEN you resolve the entire Attack (including any Ambushes), in the order and with the units identified above, until NVA runs out of target spaces or Resources (whichever comes first).

Regards,
Oerjan
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Bruce Wigdor
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Thanks, Oerjan--I think I'm getting closer to grasping this.

Do I have it right that, when the NVA bot is controlling things, that an Ambush and normal Attack will not remove pieces from the same space?

Also, if shaded PT-76 is in effect, do you consider that when weighing space priorities, or do you first wait to see which are the spaces that are going to be attacked, and only then determine the space in which PT-76 will have the most effect?
 
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Oerjan Ariander
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brucewig wrote:
Thanks, Oerjan--I think I'm getting closer to grasping this.

Do I have it right that, when the NVA bot is controlling things, that an Ambush and normal Attack will not remove pieces from the same space?

Correct.

Quote:
Also, if shaded PT-76 is in effect, do you consider that when weighing space priorities

Yes. That's explicitly stated in the part of the 4th bullet that you replaced with "..." in the original post.

Regards,
Oerjan
 
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Bruce Wigdor
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Thanks again--I believe I am getting closer to an understanding! By the way, Oerjan, since I have your attention, I might as well pay you the compliment of saying that I think these bots are a work of pure genius. An amazing job.

I am falling a bit over the words of "check now to see if Ambushing per below is possible." I think I have an example that illustrates my question.

Situation: lone ARVN guerilla in Central Laos, lone NVA Guerilla adjacent on Route 9. In Pleiku, there are 4 NVA troops with enemy COIN Pieces. In addition, an NVA Guerilla is on Route 13 and could be Ambushing in Kien Phong. Those are the only places Attacking or Ambushing could occur. The NVA have just two resources.

So the top priority space is Central Laos. Checking the priorities, we see that the only way attacking in Central Laos is possible is to Ambush. Does "check now" mean that we immediately check for Ambush spaces, or do we continue moving down the priority list to see if another Ambush will occur?

If we do the former, we immediately identify Kien Phong as a target, and the two targets will be Central Laos and Kien Phong. Pleiku, though more enemy pieces would be removed than from Kien Phong, is not chosen.

If we do the latter, we continue to move down the priority list and identify Pleiku. But now we are done, because we are out of resources. Only one space is Ambushing, so the Ambush is no longer possible. So it is not possible to Ambush anywhere, and we will be attacking in Pleiku and also Bombarding, and will be ignoring the highest priority space (Central Laos).

Which is the correct way to resolve this? Or is there another solution that I am missing?

Thanks!
 
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Oerjan Ariander
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When you get to the "check now" bit, you check all the Attack spaces to see if you're going to use any Ambushes during this Operation or if you're going to Bombard before actually Attacking anything. The "below" refers to the fact that the NP instruction for the Ambush SA is located further below in the text (on the next page).

But remember that the second set of bullets only resolves any remaining ties between the spaces selected by the first set, which reads:

Quote:
• First, target any enemy pieces in Laos or Cambodia, then those
within South Vietnam.
• Within that priority, Attack first in (or from, if Ambushing from
LoCs, 4.4.3) those spaces in (or from) which the most enemy
pieces total could be removed.
• Within that priority, Attack first where a Base could be removed,
then where Special Forces (Irregulars or Rangers) could be
removed, finally Troops and Police evenly (starting with the
fewest in the space, 8.1.2). For each Attack space, remove pieces
in that order, to the degree allowed. NOTE: These are the same
priorities for removal of enemy pieces as Non-player VC Attack
uses (8.5.4).
• Within those priorities, Attack and remove US pieces before
ARVN whenever possible.


The first bullet in this set says to target enemies in Laos/Cambodia before anything else. This means that the Ambush into Central Laos has the highest priority for this Operation; neither of the other two spaces can compete with it.

The second bullet says to target where the largest number of enemy pieces can be removed. NVA Ambushes can only remove 1 enemy piece each, so if the 4 Troops in Pleiku could remove 2 COIN pieces (or more, if shaded PT-76 is in play) then Pleiku will be second priority.

If there is only 1 COIN piece in Pleiku, then Pleiku and Kien Phong are tied for the number of pieces they could remove. In this case the 3rd bullet makes them look at what types of piece they could remove: a Base if possible, otherwise SF, and if that isn't possible then remove cubes.

If they are still tied at this point, the last bullet in the first set says to choose the space where the bot could remove US pieces over spaces where it'd remove ARVN pieces.

Only if Pleiku and Kien Phong are STILL tied after the entire first set of bullets - i.e., Attacking or Ambushing either of them would remove exactly one piece of the same type from the same Faction regardless of which of the two spaces the bot hits - does the second set of bullets get to resolve the tied priority. In that case the bot will choose Pleiku, since the first bullet in the 2nd set says to Attack with 4+ Troops first if there's a tie "among spaces of the same priority above" (i.e., from the first set).

Later,
Oerjan
 
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Bruce Wigdor
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OK--I finally figured out what was confusing me so badly.

Quote:
Do not Ambush if either piece removed would be an ARVN Troop or Police, or if only 1 Ambush space is possible...


I read far too much into the "or if only 1 Ambush space is possible" phrase. I read it to mean that the NVA bot either Ambushes from 2 spaces, or not at all. You clarify what you mean immediately after, but I still read it wrong. I would say my fault more than the rule's, especially since if you read it my way it causes all these questions.

OK, so now on to Bombardment. If, after you've selected your targets and determined that Ambush is not possible, do you reassess the priority of the targets now that you know there will be Bombardment?

Also, how does Bombardment choose which two Attack spaces to target? Usual random selection?
 
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