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Chris R.
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"...marijuana entrepreneur Gary Johnson has floated another idea that shows he is far from a libertarian purist. After picking the statist Bill Weld as his running mate, Johnson presented a 'free market' (read: statist) idea ... a form of cap and trade.

'...include a fee -- not a tax, he said -- placed on carbon. Such a fee would make pollutants bear a market cost.'

A fee on carbon emissions is the centerpiece of progressive attempts to institute a cap and trade scheme on American industry. ...

This seems to be a departure from a position Johnson held during the 2012 campaign when he came out against a cap and trade...

...while Johnson's 'fee' may not lead to a full cap and trade policy, any artificial barrier in the marketplace is not 'free market.'

...remember the Obama administration tried to sell Obamacare as a fee, not a tax.

Johnson is not running as a libertarian purist or even as a 'conservatarian' like Ron and Rand Paul. He is running as a liberal Republican in Libertarian clothing."

https://www.conservativereview.com/commentary/2016/08/libert...

...

Other attached links...

"73 percent of what Bernie (Sanders) says I agree with." -- Gary Johnson

https://www.conservativereview.com/commentary/2016/06/libert...

5 Statist Positions That Should Make Libertarians Run from (his vice presidential candidate) Bill Weld

1. Gun Control
2. Eminent Domain
3. Affirmative Action
4. Environmental Regulations
5. Full-Throated Endorsement of Barack Obama

https://www.conservativereview.com/commentary/2016/05/5-stat...

(Perhaps there's a fourth or fifth candidate out there for who I can throw away my vote...)
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Me nah play no 'ide and seek
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If you Libertarians are gonna shit all over Gary Johnson, what do you have this election?
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William Boykin
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For BJ.....
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Johnson is a libertarian who doesnt hide his head in the goddamn sand when political ideaology and reality clash. He understands that a libertarian stance on some issues like global warming, for instance, requires libertarianism to first admit the problem exists in the first place.

Finally, libertarianism isnt against government. Rather, it is a position that argues skepticism about government; but to be skeptical about government isnt the same as saying that government has no role at all.

Frankly, I like Johnson in the same way that others here like Trump- he demonstrates that there sre other eays to be a libertarian rather than the oh so tired Rothbard minarchism thst is so prevalent in the online community.

Darilian
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Steven Woodcock
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sikeospi wrote:
"...marijuana entrepreneur Gary Johnson has floated another idea that shows he is far from a libertarian purist. After picking the statist Bill Weld as his running mate, Johnson presented a 'free market' (read: statist) idea ... a form of cap and trade.

'...include a fee -- not a tax, he said -- placed on carbon. Such a fee would make pollutants bear a market cost.'

A fee on carbon emissions is the centerpiece of progressive attempts to institute a cap and trade scheme on American industry. ...

This seems to be a departure from a position Johnson held during the 2012 campaign when he came out against a cap and trade...

...while Johnson's 'fee' may not lead to a full cap and trade policy, any artificial barrier in the marketplace is not 'free market.'

...remember the Obama administration tried to sell Obamacare as a fee, not a tax.

Johnson is not running as a libertarian purist or even as a 'conservatarian' like Ron and Rand Paul. He is running as a liberal Republican in Libertarian clothing."

https://www.conservativereview.com/commentary/2016/08/libert...

...

Other attached links...

"73 percent of what Bernie (Sanders) says I agree with." -- Gary Johnson

https://www.conservativereview.com/commentary/2016/06/libert...

5 Statist Positions That Should Make Libertarians Run from (his vice presidential candidate) Bill Weld

1. Gun Control
2. Eminent Domain
3. Affirmative Action
4. Environmental Regulations
5. Full-Throated Endorsement of Barack Obama

https://www.conservativereview.com/commentary/2016/05/5-stat...

(Perhaps there's a fourth or fifth candidate out there for who I can throw away my vote...)



Just more evidence he's really just a tepid Democrat.


Ferret
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Lone Locust of the Apocalypse
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toku42 wrote:
If you Libertarians are gonna shit all over Gary Johnson, what do you have this election?


They don't want what they have, they don't like what they might get and what they need doesn't exist besides that it couldn't get elected anyway.
 
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Josiah Fiscus
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All of this makes me like Gary Johnson even more.
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Junior McSpiffy
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Ferretman wrote:

Just more evidence he's really just a tepid Democrat.


Ferret


And Democrats would use it as evidence to say he's just a tepid Republican.
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Junior McSpiffy
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sikeospi wrote:
"...marijuana entrepreneur Gary Johnson has floated another idea that shows he is far from a libertarian purist. After picking the statist Bill Weld as his running mate, Johnson presented a 'free market' (read: statist) idea ... a form of cap and trade.

'...include a fee -- not a tax, he said -- placed on carbon. Such a fee would make pollutants bear a market cost.'

A fee on carbon emissions is the centerpiece of progressive attempts to institute a cap and trade scheme on American industry. ...

This seems to be a departure from a position Johnson held during the 2012 campaign when he came out against a cap and trade...

...while Johnson's 'fee' may not lead to a full cap and trade policy, any artificial barrier in the marketplace is not 'free market.'

...remember the Obama administration tried to sell Obamacare as a fee, not a tax.

Johnson is not running as a libertarian purist or even as a 'conservatarian' like Ron and Rand Paul. He is running as a liberal Republican in Libertarian clothing."

https://www.conservativereview.com/commentary/2016/08/libert...

...

Other attached links...

"73 percent of what Bernie (Sanders) says I agree with." -- Gary Johnson

https://www.conservativereview.com/commentary/2016/06/libert...

5 Statist Positions That Should Make Libertarians Run from (his vice presidential candidate) Bill Weld

1. Gun Control
2. Eminent Domain
3. Affirmative Action
4. Environmental Regulations
5. Full-Throated Endorsement of Barack Obama

https://www.conservativereview.com/commentary/2016/05/5-stat...

(Perhaps there's a fourth or fifth candidate out there for who I can throw away my vote...)


Not enough color. Also, the links only had a brief highlight of the article rather than the entire article itself. No videos.

3 out of 10 on the Shrevescale. Would read again.
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Junior McSpiffy
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sikeospi wrote:

(Perhaps there's a fourth or fifth candidate out there for who I can throw away my vote...)


My favorite part of all this. Gary Johnson isn't Libertarian enough. So he's just gonna vote for Trump.
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J.D. Hall
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Christ, another candidate run afoul of the ideological purists. Fuck 'em, Gary, just do what you want.
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Steven Woodcock
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GameCrossing wrote:
Ferretman wrote:

Just more evidence he's really just a tepid Democrat.


Ferret


And Democrats would use it as evidence to say he's just a tepid Republican.


I don't see how...only a very small handful of Republicans (RINOs mostly) support a cap-and-trade, whereas nearly all Democrats have been indoctrinated to believe this now.

So the Democrats would be wrong here...which is of course not unusual for them.

Well played sir!



Ferret
 
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Chris,

It seems to me that cap and trade is one of the least authoritarian and most market based solutions to the problem of the negative externalities caused by companies that pollute. How do you suggest these and other negative externalities be addressed? Or do you just not acknowledge/care that negative externalities exist?
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Mac Mcleod
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Johnson is a complicated, likable figure who definately falls in the libertarian quadrant of the political spectrum if you define libertarian as "socially liberal and fiscally conservative".

Some libertarians do not see him as a libertarian. But that's the nature of being libertarian.

Some libertarians apply a litmus test and if Johnson supports a single issue they disagree with then they say he's not a libertarian. That's the nature of being stupid and unrealistic.

Net net, I would not vote for Johnson if he had a chance of winning but there are many area's where I agree with him.
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Daniel Edwards
United Kingdom
London
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verandi wrote:

Chris,

It seems to me that cap and trade is one of the least authoritarian and most market based solutions to the problem of the negative externalities caused by companies that pollute. How do you suggest these and other negative externalities be addressed? Or do you just not acknowledge/care that negative externalities exist?


Affected individuals have to sue in the non-binding, non-governmental courts that are somehow supposed to exist. And then enforce the decision of that court somehow.
 
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Stephen Rost
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Fort Wayne
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Darilian wrote:
Johnson is a libertarian who doesnt hide his head in the goddamn sand when political ideaology and reality clash. He understands that a libertarian stance on some issues like global warming, for instance, requires libertarianism to first admit the problem exists in the first place.

Finally, libertarianism isnt against government. Rather, it is a position that argues skepticism about government; but to be skeptical about government isnt the same as saying that government has no role at all.

Frankly, I like Johnson in the same way that others here like Trump- he demonstrates that there sre other eays to be a libertarian rather than the oh so tired Rothbard minarchism thst is so prevalent in the online community.

Darilian


Would you say that progressive liberalism or conservatism are positions that do not argue for skepticism against government? I say that there is more to libertarianism than mere skepticism of government, else we are all libertarians and the distinction would cease to have meaning.

I suspect that without Rothbard and other writers framing libertarianism as anarcho-capitalism, there would be no Gary Johnson. If we don’t have that radical stake planted in the ground far from conventional political theory—a beacon for principle--the space in-between doesn’t exist.

If overall, the Johnson run has the effect of drawing both the GOP and DNC to accepting some libertarian platforms in the future, no matter how watered-down, then I view that as a good thing. To be sure, there exists a spectrum of beliefs that encompass the ideology, and Johnson certainly entertains some of the party platforms (others he disregards) but I personally couldn't acknowledge Johnson as being libertarian proper.

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Daniel
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toku42 wrote:
If you Libertarians are gonna shit all over Gary Johnson, what do you have this election?


Abstain from evil. Don't vote.

Lew's reasons are good:

A lot of people have asked me why I do not vote.

1) Voting is the sacrament of the civil religion. I’m a political atheist.
2) Not voting bugs the regime, and no wonder. Such abstinence, like not complying in other ways, weakens them. What if they held an election and nobody came?
3) It’s a pain in the neck.
4) Your vote doesn’t count, unless the election is decided by a single vote. You are far more likely to be killed on the way to the polls than to have that happen.
5) The candidates itch to rule others. There is no lesser evil.
6) Politics is not our salvation. Indeed, the whole system is corrupt from top to bottom.

A Christian's case for non-voting (especially when you can not in good conscience support anyone):
https://www.lewrockwell.com/2016/07/michael-s-alford/dont-vo...

Key points: The system is evil and worldly.

Also, a la Carlin, if I vote, what right do I have to complain???
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Damian
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Ferretman wrote:
I don't see how...only a very small handful of Republicans (RINOs mostly) support a cap-and-trade, whereas nearly all Democrats have been indoctrinated to believe this now.

Cap and trade is a Republican invention from the Bush I administration. Up until the late aughts it was being advocated by Republican poster boys like McCain, Romney, Huckabee and Pawlenty.
 
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Steven Woodcock
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damiangerous wrote:
Ferretman wrote:
I don't see how...only a very small handful of Republicans (RINOs mostly) support a cap-and-trade, whereas nearly all Democrats have been indoctrinated to believe this now.

Cap and trade is a Republican invention from the Bush I administration. Up until the late aughts it was being advocated by Republican poster boys like McCain, Romney, Huckabee and Pawlenty.


...which doesn't make it "Republican". If you bothered to research a bit, you'd find it was a Bush gimmie to the Gore-ites at the time, as it was believed they'd be able to stampede the nation into doing something even more catastrophically bad. Fortunately it died quickly.

And who said Bush/Romney/McCain weren't all RINOs? They meet the very definition.

Nice try. Now sit down and let the adults talk.


Ferret
 
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Damian
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Ferretman wrote:
...which doesn't make it "Republican". If you bothered to research a bit, you'd find it was a Bush gimmie to the Gore-ites at the time, as it was believed they'd be able to stampede the nation into doing something even more catastrophically bad. Fortunately it died quickly.

Bush I was a huge champion of emissions trading, they started working on it before he even took office. It was a fundamental platform of his policy of being an environmental president. If you think it was some sort of "gimme" then you need to find better sources of information.

Quote:
And who said Bush/Romney/McCain weren't all RINOs? They meet the very definition.

So Dole has been the only "real Republican" candidate since 1980? Even Reagan supported emissions trading to phase out leaded gas. If you believe that you might want to reevaluate what a Republican is, because it sure as hell isn't what you seem to think.

Quote:
Nice try. Now sit down and let the adults talk.

A guy who needs to "research" something that happened in 1989 probably shouldn't be commenting here.

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