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The Lord of the Rings: The Card Game» Forums » Rules

Subject: Current Quest during Setup? rss

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Mr. D
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During Setup, is Quest 1A considered to be the "Current Quest"? Do Treacheries that "attach to current quest" get attached to 1A or are they ignored?

thanks
-TR
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"And wrapped it around the Antho-space / From the Eye of the U on out / Displacement is never felt / If that's where you're at, uh, / It looks like that's that" -- Ed Dorn
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I would imagine that they do get attached to the 1A quest, since in the rules (Page 10), 6. Set Quest Cards comes before 7. Follow Scenario Setup. Good luck!
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Matthew Saloff
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This is a question someone may have to submit to FFG.

Recently, I sent in a question about damage or progress showing up during the resolution of a 1A and the ruling was that while the tokens are still placed, they will fall off when you flip to 1B.

So this may be the same. It may still attach, but then will fall off as soon as you flip the quest over.


*EDITED mis-type
 
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Andrew Brown
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Mattr0polis wrote:
This is a question someone may have to submit to FFG.

Recently, I sent in a question about damage or progress showing up during the resolution of a 1A and the ruling was that while the tokens are still placed, they will fall off when you flip to 2A.

So this may be the same. It may still attach, but then will fall off as soon as you flip the quest over.
do you mean 1B? 1A to 2A is definitely far removed

i think the OP is asking if something attached to 1A will: be placed at all and/or will still be there when it flips to 1B
 
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Lee Broderick
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Mattr0polis wrote:
This is a question someone may have to submit to FFG.

Recently, I sent in a question about damage or progress showing up during the resolution of a 1A and the ruling was that while the tokens are still placed, they will fall off when you flip to 2A.

So this may be the same. It may still attach, but then will fall off as soon as you flip the quest over.


1A would, surely, flip to 1B?
 
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Titus M
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This is a very good question, and I don't remember anything addressing it from the latest faq. I would imagine that the card does attach to 1A, but flipping 1A to 1B (while I agree, tokens should be lost) doesn't make it clear whether "quest card 1" was around the whole time, or card 1A has left play and card 1B has entered play.

I would think the latter, but that will make the quest easier. So I'd wager Caleb will tell us to leave treacheries attached.
 
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Andrew Brown
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i would honestly say that, during setup, the quest is on 1A, since you are clearly following those steps listed on the card (if any) and immediately transition to 1B once you're done.

i'm honestly at a loss to reconcile whether or not 1A and 1B (or 2A, 2B, etc.) are the same quest or not.
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Matthew Saloff
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dr00 wrote:
do you mean 1B? 1A to 2A is definitely far removed


Woops, yeah. Meant from 1A to 1B.

Edited my post to prevent more confusion.
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Chris Mabry
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Mattr0polis wrote:
This is a question someone may have to submit to FFG.

Recently, I sent in a question about damage or progress showing up during the resolution of a 1A and the ruling was that while the tokens are still placed, they will fall off when you flip to 1B.

So this may be the same. It may still attach, but then will fall off as soon as you flip the quest over.


*EDITED mis-type


That's interesting. I've been playing Flight from Moria wrong the entire time. Legolas could often place progress on the 2A side of the quest card. Then when you got to the next quest phase, you would flip it over and sometimes it would be immediately completed since a couple of the quest cards have low progress requirements which is usually bad for the players.

If tokens don't stay, then I don't see why the attachment would.

The argument for attachments (and imo tokens) staying would be that the quest card has the same title. It's strange to me that the 1A/1B (which is only their to indicate sequencing according to the Core Set rules) makes the card different enough that tokens (and possibly attachments) would be discarded.

We know for certain that 1A/1B are the same stage according to the Core Set Rules:

Quote:
1. Card Title: The name of this card. Each sequential
stage in a scenario has its own unique name

Players proceed from side A to side B on each stage of a scenario.


What we don't know is if they are the same "quest card".

Quote:
Each quest card represents one of the various stages of
the quest the players are pursuing in a scenario.


Based on the above, I'm inclined to say that a quest card is a stage. If that is true, then that would mean if you attached something to the "current quest card" it would remain attached, even when you flip it from 1A to 1B.

But as mentioned before...since progress tokens are evidently removed when a quest card is flipped from A to B, it seems somewhat contradictory.
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It sounds like we've solved the question if the card would be attached to 1A (consensus seems to be that it would indeed be attached), but the new question is whether or not that card would remain attached on flip from 1A to 1B. I would probably keep the card attached under the logic that 1B is the same stage as 1A, but I can see both sides of it (especially given the ruling on progress tokens falling off), and think that a question to FFG would make sense.
 
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Lee Broderick
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cr0835ab wrote:
It sounds like we've solved the question if the card would be attached to 1A (consensus seems to be that it would indeed be attached), but the new question is whether or not that card would remain attached on flip from 1A to 1B. I would probably keep the card attached under the logic that 1B is the same stage as 1A, but I can see both sides of it (especially given the ruling on progress tokens falling off), and think that a question to FFG would make sense.


There's also the argument that something attached to stage 1A would be pointless if it disappeared when the card flipped, since it would essentially vanish the moment the game started. I know common sense isn't always the answer with rules but, well.
 
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Mr. D
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Answer from Caleb:

If a treachery is attached to the current quest during setup it will be attached to stage 1A and remain attached when it flips to stage 1B.
Cheers,
Caleb

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Matthew Saloff
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Thanks for sending that in.

I wonder how they justify that being different from tokens falling off? Like, gameplay-wise it seems like attachments should stay and are more important than tokens, but why are they treated differently I wonder?

*shrug*
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Maybe cards are treated differently than tokens? Text that attaches the card to another card with an ongoing effect would seemingly be more "permanent" than a token. Just a thought though! It's definitely interesting.
 
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cr0835ab wrote:
Maybe cards are treated differently than tokens? Text that attaches the card to another card with an ongoing effect would seemingly be more "permanent" than a token. Just a thought though! It's definitely interesting.


It think this is probably just to keep things consistent with quest resolution. Finish card 1, move to card 2. Read side A, flip to side B. Obviously any 'unspent' progress tokens shouldn't overspill from card 1 to card 2 but if someone were learning the game it might be simpler to keep things consistent in this manner.
 
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Matthieu Monteil
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Mattr0polis wrote:
Recently, I sent in a question about damage or progress showing up during the resolution of a 1A and the ruling was that while the tokens are still placed, they will fall off when you flip to 1B.

Would you by any chance have a link to that question/answer thread ?

I'm interested to see how this mix up with the information I once saw in the following thread:
https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1173320/lonely-mountain

black spark wrote:
When advancing from stage 2 to stage 3 there's something that applies that may not be obvious: note that determining that you have quested successfully comes before placing progress tokens (as per section 1.24 of the FAQ). The first Forced effect on stage 2B triggers when you determine that you have quested successfully, the Forced effect then allows you to advance to stage 3 (after a successful burgle attempt), and progress tokens from the resolution of the quest are then placed on stage 3 (and yes, I checked this with Caleb, months ago).

I'm wondering if in such case, tokens would be placed on 3A and would then fall while flipping to 3B?
(if so, it wouldn't be of any interest )

Thanks in advance,
ilujito
 
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Matthew Saloff
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ilujito wrote:
Would you by any chance have a link to that question/answer thread ?


I don't have a link as it was in an email reply but I saved the email.

Here was the question I sent in on 4/5/2016:

Mattropolis Rules Inquiry wrote:
Hello,
here is a few weird questions again that came up recently:

1. What is a quest "stage" exactly? Is side A and B of a quest card the same stage? We hit the treachery card 'Devilry of Saruman':

("When Revealed: Place 3 progress on the current quest(bypassing any active location). Until the end of the round, treat each character’s text box as blank (except for Traits).")

during setup which placed 3 progress on side 2A of Assault on Helm's Deep before flipping it over. Would the progress carry over to side 2B when we flip it? Or would the progress go away like when switching to a different quest card?


And here is the answer from Caleb on 4/22/2016:

Caleb Grace wrote:
1. I’m surprised this never came up before. Here’s what I would do if I revealed Devilry of Saruman at stage 2A: I would place 3 progress on that stage and when I flipped the card over to its B side, I would discard that progress. However, my character’s text boxes would still be blanked for the rest of the round.

Cheers,
Caleb
 
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Matthieu Monteil
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Thanks a lot !

And BTW, I'm now totally confused as I don't know anymore how to treat Lonely Mountain .
 
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Joke Meister
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Honestly, this is starting to feel like interpretation was simply based on what would give the worst result for the player in each instance without any consideration to other rules or any kind of rules/thematic framework.
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