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Kingdom Death: Monster» Forums » General

Subject: KD Char Sheet App rss

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David Tolin
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So, I just ran across a campaign/character tracking app on the iOS app store called the "KD Char Sheet." It's a really nifty piece of work, including a lot of time-saving information and shortcuts. I've been toying around with the idea of using one of the great Google Doc tracking sheets for our current campaign, but the need to have multiple laptops at the table is a hurdle.

This app may be the answer to that issue, since everyone can just a phone or tablet. The problem I'm seeing with that solution is that the settlement data doesn't appear to be shareable in the same way the Google Sheets are--I suppose I could create and export every character for all the other players, but updates from those players would then need to be exported back to me... it seems like a non-starter, except for solo play.

Has anyone tried using the app for 4-player games and had much luck with it? If so, how did you do it?

The other downside of the app is that some of the events are not very clearly triggered. I like the way the timeline is set up, but for events that trigger in other ways (e.g., first death, etc.), players unfamiliar with the game will still need to keep a physical settlement sheet handy to make sure they don't miss anything.
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Timothy O'Connell
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Hey: I maintain http://kdm-manager.com and if you've got a second, I would be interested in hearing whether you've tried and, it so, how you think it could work better for multiplayer/mobile.

(Or just how it could work better generally, again, if you don't mind taking the time to write it up.)

Thanks!
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David Tolin
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toconnell wrote:
Hey: I maintain http://kdm-manager.com and if you've got a second, I would be interested in hearing whether you've tried and, it so, how you think it could work better for multiplayer/mobile.

(Or just how it could work better generally, again, if you don't mind taking the time to write it up.)

Thanks!


I will definitely fiddle around with it. At first glance, it looks better suited to mobile devices than the Google Sheets I've been toying with. Also, one of my players is vision-impaired, and the large text is great. It's pretty confusing getting started (I'm not sure what I'm really looking at when I click on the campaign button), but I'm optimistic.

I promise I will give more input once I have time to play around with it some more.
 
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Demian
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there are a dozen or so shared Settlements ongoing at http://vibrantlantern.com/cm/ at any one time. Some are local play and some are skype based.

while not directly supported, folks just log in with a single login multiple times and use the same settlement. All data for Settlements is saved as you go, and players update single survivor sheets as needed. the complication is that it's a last in save condition, that is, the last person to save data for that login is the one that commits and there is no "undo" so there is usually just one player managing Settlements while the rest manage their Survivors

from feedback, desktop/laptop/tablets are best, phones are workable - I plan to rebuild on bootstrap 4 when that releases

Check out kdm-manager.com (mentioned above) and pgsgames.com/kdm (not sure if it's still maintained)

good luck!

edit: just checked stats, looks like 1,200 users with 1,500 Settlements and 5,500 Survivors. about 20% of users have logged in the past 30 days


 
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Jonahdel
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I have this app too but there are quite a few missing items in it (ability descriptions, weapon masteries, gender change, to name a few).
I asked the dev when he plans on adding them but got no response.

So far, Tim's kdm-manager.com is the best digital solution that I'm using. If only he could turn it into an app with offline support, it'll be perfect!
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Michael Boehm
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Woah... people are playing KD campaigns via Skype? Awesome. Where do I find these and ask to join? I've had KD for a while now and have only been able to do solo play.
 
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Timothy O'Connell
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DavidT wrote:
toconnell wrote:
Hey: I maintain http://kdm-manager.com and if you've got a second, I would be interested in hearing whether you've tried and, it so, how you think it could work better for multiplayer/mobile.

(Or just how it could work better generally, again, if you don't mind taking the time to write it up.)

Thanks!


I will definitely fiddle around with it. At first glance, it looks better suited to mobile devices than the Google Sheets I've been toying with. Also, one of my players is vision-impaired, and the large text is great. It's pretty confusing getting started (I'm not sure what I'm really looking at when I click on the campaign button), but I'm optimistic.

I promise I will give more input once I have time to play around with it some more.


Nice! Thanks for checking it out.

The UI is definitely counter-intuitive: one of my long-standing goals is to implement some kind of "first time user" tutorial type of feature, but I have prioritized full expansion support over that kind of thing based on feedback, so it's been languishing.


Please do hit me up if you have any questions/comments/ideas. I just recently got a GitHub repo going for the project, which is where I'm tracking issues now, so here's the URL for that, in case that's a good tool for you: https://github.com/toconnell/kdm-manager

Thanks again!
 
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Timothy O'Connell
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Xairen wrote:
...

So far, Tim's kdm-manager.com is the best digital solution that I'm using. If only he could turn it into an app with offline support, it'll be perfect!


Thanks!

re: offline support, I actually did log some hours on a native Android app, but I never got very far with it and have pretty much abandoned it.

If I ever get serious about a "version two" of the Manager again, it almost certainly will be an Android app though.
 
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David Tolin
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toconnell wrote:
Hey: I maintain http://kdm-manager.com and if you've got a second, I would be interested in hearing whether you've tried and, it so, how you think it could work better for multiplayer/mobile.

(Or just how it could work better generally, again, if you don't mind taking the time to write it up.)

Thanks!


Okay, so this weekend our group tested out a variety of different options for digital campaign management, and you'll probably be pleased to hear that KDM-Manager.com won out as our solution of choice. The other two options were the new app I linked at the top of this thread, and a modified Google Sheets tracker. In a very brief nutshell, the pros and cons of each were:

KD Char Sheet App - Pros: slick interface, easy to use on mobile devices; Cons: not vision-impaired friendly, not entirely comprehensive or automated (yet?), doesn't seem to support multiple users for a single settlement.

Google Sheets - Pros: best interface with the most information at a glance, fast, looks really good on a laptop, multiple-user support is great; Cons: Nearly impossible to use on a mobile device or tablet, not vision-impaired friendly, least automation of the three tested.

KDM-Manager - Pros: displays well on a phone but best on a laptop, most automated of the three tested, nearly as comprehensive as Google Sheets, oversized text on phones is perfect for visually-impaired players, "meta" features are great; Cons: interface is not visually appealing, on tablets the layout is awful (everything is too oversized, even moreso than on phones, and no apparent way to default to non-mobile version), some key functionality missing for survivor management.

Ultimately, as I mentioned above, we settled on KDM-Manager as the best solution for us. A number of factors influenced this decision, some of which are specific to us, as a group.

First, and probably most importantly, one of our players has very poor vision. Realistically, nothing but KDM-Manager was going to work for him, unless he brought his own laptop and magnifier--but we were trying to keep actual laptops to a minimum. With KDM-Manager, he enjoyed the game like he never has before and remarked that he would prefer phone use over the laptop due to the large text and formatting of the mobile layout. It was superior to using the physical survivor and settlement sheets for him, so he was very happy.

Second, my primary requirements were that the software be comprehensive and as automated as possible. If the settlement gets an innovation and the survival limit should go up, then I want the software to handle that. I also want survivor stats, etc., to update automatically when severe injuries, impairments, etc., are suffered. And I want milestone and story events to be clearly highlighted, so we don't miss anything. The three systems we tested out were all pretty good in these areas, though Google Sheets was not the best. It was good with survivor automation, but not much for the settlement. KDM-Manager is tops in this area, and almost everything I would want automated, is. In fact, there were some things I didn't even know I wanted that KDM-Manager provides: the lineage tracker is fun, the ability to add survivors to a Hunt and then return them automatically is critical, and the way it tracks the metadata of all settlements participating is awesome.

We used two laptops and one phone, as we were playing with 3 players. If we had a fourth there, it might have been a bit tougher. I don't think two laptops is too much, but three might be. And, aside from our vision-impaired player, I don't think everyone would enjoy using a phone for survivor tracking. Though KDM-Manager has a good layout for the phone, there is still too much scrolling around to get to vital information, for my taste. A tablet would be the perfect solution, but I couldn't figure out how to boot up the system on a tablet without it defaulting to the mobile view--and the mobile view on tablet is like a punch in the face. Everything is H-U-G-E, and there is even less information on the screen than when using a phone.

Overall, though, KDM-Manager is a great little tool, and I'm very happy with it. We are going to continue using it, and I think it will really speed up play in some areas. Since you asked for advice on how to make it a better experience, here are my big wishes for this thing:

1) There really need to be separate fields for temporary stat bonuses (from armor, weapons, etc.). We want to add everything up before the Hunt, after we're equipped, and then see at a glance what our survivors' new base stats are for that Hunt. But if we add it in, it's a real headache to update the stats back to base level when the Hunt is over (and not mistakenly remove an actual permanent stat boost that a survivor may have gained). This is such a big deal for me that I almost opted for Google Sheets instead of KDM-Manager. If not for our vision-impaired player, I very well might have.

2) The separation of the "Campaign Summary" and "Edit Settlement" into two separate screens is sort of clunky. Most of the time, the Campaign Summary screen is where we want to be, but the Timeline is only accessible in the Edit Settlement screen. And we can't add innovations or settlement locations in Campaign Summary, either. But, if we opt for the Edit Settlement screen instead, we no longer have access to Hunt preparation and survivors, or useful reminders like the awesome "available endeavors" feature.

3) Regarding the Timeline itself, I would like to see an option to hide Timeline events until the relevant year is reached.

4) In the pipe dream category, probably, it would be awesome if characters could equip for the Hunt in KDM-Manager itself, and the equipped items automatically adjusted stats. Like a drop-down box containing all gear owned by the Settlement, where gear can be selected and then applied to that survivor (and then unavailable to other survivors). There could be a separate button in the Campaign Summary screen that you press when ready to prepare for the next Hunt, and that button could strip all gear from survivors. Then, you add characters to the Hunt, and after adding your four characters, you edit those individually to equip them from the drop-down box.

If the above features were added, I think this would be the perfect complement to KDM. Thanks for all your work designing KDM-Manager, and I hope this feedback is helpful.

Best,

-dt
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Timothy O'Connell
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This is awesome! This kind of feedback is really important to me! I sent you a PM reply with some detailed responses.

Thanks again!
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Dave Cohen
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I'd love to see those responses if you don't mind sharing.
 
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Timothy O'Connell
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Symphonic5 wrote:
I'd love to see those responses if you don't mind sharing.


Basically, I talked about the trouble I have getting feedback on the Manager: since December 2015, 1065 users have registered and I've had about 50 (or so) people check in with comments/emails/issues.

Even assuming that a handful of those 1065 are bogus and a large part of that number represents drive-bys who realize that it's not a KDM simulator and close the tab, there are a ton of users who make a test/dummy settlement, fiddle a few survivors and then never sign in again. I'm talking about hundreds. I'd really like to hear from the folks who do that.

At any rate, I am really, really grateful for everyone who has taken the time to write out any issues/comments/requests.

The rest of the response went like this:

toconnell wrote:
The next big milestone will be the Flower Knight release, which will probably not address too many of your issues (details here: https://github.com/toconnell/kdm-manager/milestone/1 ), but I think I can handle your timeline request in the next release and add a user preference that hides all subsequent years.

Also, based on your feedback, I think am going to do another release in September that adds tablet resolution support. I will probably make it a smaller one and codename the milestone "Tablet Resolution" (haha) or something like that and try to target mid- to late-September for it.

(I also like the idea of Timeline controls on the Campaign Summary. I've been thinking about that for a while, and your post game me an idea for how I might implement it...stay tuned.


For now, the Tablet Resolution milestone (https://github.com/toconnell/kdm-manager/milestone/2) date is 09/25, but depending on how it goes getting the Flower Knight release together, I might still fiddle with that.

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Torsten Pluschke
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Is it intentional that understanding is not automatically increased by 1 when you get graves?

Additionally, a permanent severe injury like gaping chest wound decreases your strength automatically but a principal like barbaric does not automatically increase everyones strength.
 
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