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Eric Harman
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These two starting skills are both amazing.

One gives you bonus damage and experience (and of course, damage is king)

The other let's you escape without rolling, and move through other minis. Plus it gives you 1 free grit every fight.


Which do you think is better, and why?
 
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Andreas Lieberoth Wadum
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Still waiting for my preview doc

I'm curious to see builds as well. After all, the Doc reeks of support character, which probably isn't the easiest way to keep up in the XP race, so I'm interested to know if he'll be decent at dishing out as well
 
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J M
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I would take the first in my two player game, and the latter in my five player game. Being able to re position by moving through models in blocked corridors and room entrances is a strong tactical aspect of the saloon girl, and I'd expect the same with the doc.
 
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Steve Billups
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Field Researcher matched up with the character I had in my head thematically, so I chose that. Essentially one of my characters was mortally wounded (Internal Bleeding) and they came across this creepy doctor who had an office in an outlaw town. Kind of a Herbert West of the West.

Anyway, my first game using him, he leveled up just from encountering new Enemies and being able to bottle up his rage with the Collector Jar came in handy during the final fight. I got lucky with his die rolls and he murdered a void Sorcerer with his bare hands.

No other game gives you so much freedom to dream up whatever you want and make it happen in the game.
 
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Jee Fu
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If you meet enough monsters over enough games, the Doc will become almost as powerful as the Saloon Girl can be at level 1 ><

- Jee
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Joe Price
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Austin
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Inspector Jee wrote:
If you meet enough monsters over enough games, the Doc will become almost as powerful as the Saloon Girl can be at level 1 ><

- Jee


Not exactly a glowing recommendation there.
 
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Eric Harman
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Inspector Jee wrote:
If you meet enough monsters over enough games, the Doc will become almost as powerful as the Saloon Girl can be at level 1 ><

- Jee


Not sure I agree with that... I think he has an edge.
He has the ability to get 3+ defense, and 3+ willpower. Or he can have an innate +3 damage that applies to every attack,
Or he can have the kind of battlefield. mobility mobility she can't get til level 4, right out of the gate.
Plus he's naturally better at playing card.
And 'tools of science' would be amazing in his hands.
 
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Jee Fu
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Cooperton wrote:
Inspector Jee wrote:
If you meet enough monsters over enough games, the Doc will become almost as powerful as the Saloon Girl can be at level 1 ><

- Jee


Not sure I agree with that... I think he has an edge.
He has the ability to get 3+ defense, and 3+ willpower. Or he can have an innate +3 damage that applies to every attack,
Or he can have the kind of battlefield. mobility mobility she can't get til level 4, right out of the gate.
Plus he's naturally better at playing card.
And 'tools of science' would be amazing in his hands.

Any melee weapon in the hands of the Frontier Doc is better in the hands of a Saloon Girl with Dirty Fighting, all things being equal. The Tools of Science is begging to be wielded by anyone with high Cunning, which Saloon Girls might be stacking anyway.

My answer was a little tongue-in-cheek tho. The Doc has a wealth of other abilities and utility that the Saloon Girl doesn't have, so he shouldn't be as combat-capable as she is. To answer the OP's original question: Field Research is likely the best straight-damage option. It's also super-fun and thematic for other reasons (especially if you go down the Upgrade Tree that's meant for it).

Battlefield Experience is what you want if you're trying to be a Combat Medic - you're trying to stay adjacent to as many Heroes as possible at all times, and you want to maximize your survival/bandage rolls.

You can do the same thing with Field Research (since you'll be more offense oriented), but it will srsly cost you in mobility over the other spec. You're also missing the Grit-Gen, but that can be mitigated by taking Dissection at level 2.

- Jee
 
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Eric Harman
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Inspector Jee wrote:
Cooperton wrote:
Inspector Jee wrote:
If you meet enough monsters over enough games, the Doc will become almost as powerful as the Saloon Girl can be at level 1 ><

- Jee


Not sure I agree with that... I think he has an edge.
He has the ability to get 3+ defense, and 3+ willpower. Or he can have an innate +3 damage that applies to every attack,
Or he can have the kind of battlefield. mobility mobility she can't get til level 4, right out of the gate.
Plus he's naturally better at playing card.
And 'tools of science' would be amazing in his hands.

Any melee weapon in the hands of the Frontier Doc is better in the hands of a Saloon Girl with Dirty Fighting, all things being equal. The Tools of Science is begging to be wielded by anyone with high Cunning, which Saloon Girls might be stacking anyway.

My answer was a little tongue-in-cheek tho. The Doc has a wealth of other abilities and utility that the Saloon Girl doesn't have, so he shouldn't be as combat-capable as she is. To answer the OP's original question: Field Research is likely the best straight-damage option. It's also super-fun and thematic for other reasons (especially if you go down the Upgrade Tree that's meant for it).

Battlefield Experience is what you want if you're trying to be a Combat Medic - you're trying to stay adjacent to as many Heroes as possible at all times, and you want to maximize your survival/bandage rolls.

You can do the same thing with Field Research (since you'll be more offense oriented), but it will srsly cost you in mobility over the other spec. You're also missing the Grit-Gen, but that can be mitigated by taking Dissection at level 2.

- Jee


That's good input, and you make some good points.

But, regarding tools of science. Any character has equal chance to stack cunning, but the doctor starts with more cunning, making him a better choice for the weapon.
Maybe not by enough to mitigate the saloon girl's other advantages in melee.
But I maintain that the Doc can be a close combat beast, and one of the tankiest characters around.
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Jee Fu
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Cooperton wrote:
That's good input, and you make some good points.

But, regarding tools of science. Any character has equal chance to stack cunning, but the doctor starts with more cunning, making him a better choice for the weapon.

The Doc doesn't have +Cunning on his random Upgrade Chart (boo); the Saloon Girl does, and on a 6 to boot (which is a pretty easy number to hit, especially if you've got Lucky Dice or a Lucky Hat or some other way to re-roll/change 'any dice' that isn't Grit-based). They both have it amongst their normal Upgrades, but the Doc's at are Tier 4 and the Saloon Girl's is at Tier 3.

So yeah, the Doc starts ahead by 1 but if they're both actively trying to stack it she will likely have him beat by Level 4, all things being equal. I don't really have an issue with this per se, because it's Dirty Fighting that really makes the difference (best ability in the entire game, by far ... I don't know why the Saloon Girl even has other Starting Upgrades; thing needs a nerf IMO).

Cooperton wrote:
But I maintain that the Doc can be a close combat beast, and one of the tankiest characters around.

I like the idea of a Tank Doc. I would probably build him as a Combat Medic and then slowly ramp up the Tankiness.

- Jee
 
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Eric Harman
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Inspector Jee wrote:

The Doc doesn't have +Cunning on his random Upgrade Chart (boo); the Saloon Girl does, and on a 6 to boot (which is a pretty easy number to hit, especially if you've got Lucky Dice or a Lucky Hat or some other way to re-roll/change 'any dice' that isn't Grit-based). They both have it amongst their normal Upgrades, but the Doc's at are Tier 4 and the Saloon Girl's is at Tier 3.


I hadnt noticed the lack of cunning on his chart. That does make a difference.

Inspector Jee wrote:
...it's Dirty Fighting that really makes the difference (best ability in the entire game, by far ... I don't know why the Saloon Girl even has other Starting Upgrades; thing needs a nerf IMO).
- Jee


If Dirty Fighting is the real crux of it, then I posit that Field Research is comparable.
Sure, it has to be the second time you've seen a particular monster in your career to get the damage bonus, but the first time you get a nice chunk of xp. Additionally, since the ability comes with a Collection Jar you'll get one big hit per adventure, eg: during the boss fight when it matters most.
I'd say this more than makes up for not getting the damage bonus the first time (which is likely to be at low-level when you dont need the damage as much, and when the 50 xp is worth the most to you.
 
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Jee Fu
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Cooperton wrote:
Inspector Jee wrote:
...it's Dirty Fighting that really makes the difference (best ability in the entire game, by far ... I don't know why the Saloon Girl even has other Starting Upgrades; thing needs a nerf IMO).
- Jee


If Dirty Fighting is the real crux of it, then I posit that Field Research is comparable.
Sure, it has to be the second time you've seen a particular monster in your career to get the damage bonus, but the first time you get a nice chunk of xp. Additionally, since the ability comes with a Collection Jar you'll get one big hit per adventure, eg: during the boss fight when it matters most.

I'd say this more than makes up for not getting the damage bonus the first time (which is likely to be at low-level when you dont need the damage as much, and when the 50 xp is worth the most to you.

In a vacuum, I might agree.

I'm not certain that +XP and +Damage are comparable (I think +Damage is better than gaining levels, unless you get +Damage/Combat/Shots by leveling), but for the sake of discussion I will make that concession - very well.

However! Part of the mega-awesomeness of Dirty Fighting is that it's on the Saloon Girl, who comes with a 4+ Ranged-To-Hit and the ability to use Hold-Out Pistols with no downside (like having to obtain and keep Outlaw). Contrast this with the Doc's 5+ Range-To-Hit. The Saloon Girl can go Saber/Gun/Free-Attack-Gun, worry-free. This gives her more versatility AND more dice which all remain on a 4+. You can trick-out the Doc with the Tools + another Melee weapon, but he's gonna be hard pressed to beat the number of dice that can effect the most number of monsters (and therefore the number of times +Damage comes into play) described in the Saloon Girl's situation.

Sidebar: It doesn't actually say to remove all the tokens from the Specimen Jar at the End of the Adventure, so you can save up the +Damage across multiple Adventures and then like, 1-Shot a big dude later ("I have created the MOST virulent anti-Dark-Stone-Brute bacteria KNOWN TO MAN!").

- Jee
 
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Eric Harman
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I'll happily concede that once we start including range into the mix, the saloon girl wins handedly by way of versatility.

But if we're going to go range/melee mix, well the US Marshal laughs at both of them :-)

But I'm more interested in...
Inspector Jee wrote:
Sidebar: It doesn't actually say to remove all the tokens from the Specimen Jar at the End of the Adventure, so you can save up the +Damage across multiple Adventures and then like, 1-Shot a big dude later ("I have created the MOST virulent anti-Dark-Stone-Brute bacteria KNOWN TO MAN!").

- Jee


Oh my, it certainly doesn't say the tokens can't carry over between adventures. That is remarkable.
Hypothetically, that means the good Dr could, under the right circumstances, one shot (literally one shot, not one round) any enemy in the game. She can have her hold out and whatever pistol she can find. (He can use the Trusty pistol btw, not that his low agilty and his 5+ range will make much use of it)
The Dr will be busy 1 shotting belial :-D
 
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Jee Fu
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Sadly, Endurance handily counters it (so, no 1-Shotting Be'lial). But you could 1-Shot non-endurance stuff once every coupla Adventures or so.

- Jee
 
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Eric Harman
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Ah. Didn't realize ol' Belli had endurance.
Yeah, that won't work then. Still cool though, plenty of big beasties without endurance.
 
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