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Subject: Traveling through Other World rss

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David Reagan
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I am having trouble understanding the game flow for traveling through the Other World (OW). My interpretation of the typical game flow is as follows:

TURN 1: i) upkeep, ii) move to gate location, iii) move to corresponding OW location, iv) have 1st OW encounter, v) resolve Mythos card
TURN 2: i) upkeep, ii) move to second OW space, iii) nothing happens, iv) have 2nd OW encounter, v) resolve Mythos card
TURN 3: i) upkeep, ii) move back to Arkham through a corresponding gate, iii) attempt to close/seal gate, iv) nothing happens, v) resolve Mythos card.

The updated rules state that if one has an Arkham encounter that indicates "a gate appears," the investigator moves to the OW and is delayed (updated AH rulebook p 9). According to the official FAQs (v1.2, p 4), this rule is to prevent an investigator from having only one OW encounter instead of two. By my interpretation of the rules, one would have two OW encounters if they were not delayed and three if they were delayed. This surely is not correct!

If not delayed:
TURN 1: i) upkeep, ii) move to Arkham location, iii) "A gate appears," move to OW location, but don't delay investigator iv) have 1st OW encounter, v) resolve Mythos card
TURN 2: i) upkeep, ii) move to second OW space, iii) nothing happens, iv) have 2nd OW encounter, v) resolve Mythos card
TURN 3: i) upkeep, ii) move back to Arkham by corresponding gate, iii) attempt to close/seal gate, iv) nothing happens, v) resolve Mythos card

If delayed:
TURN 1: i) upkeep, ii) move to Arkham location, iii) "A gate appears," move to OW location and delay investigator iv) have 1st OW encounter, v) resolve Mythos card
TURN 2: i) upkeep, ii) stand investigator up, iii) nothing happens, iv) have 2nd OW encounter, v) resolve Mythos card
TURN 3: i) upkeep, ii) move to second OW space, iii) nothing happens, iv) have 3rd OW encounter, v) resolve Mythos card
TURN 4: i) upkeep, ii) move back to Arkham by corresponding gate, iii) attempt to close/seal gate, iv) nothing happens, v) resolve Mythos card

Note that I've interpreted that if you are delayed you still have encounters. The rules specifically state that the only consequence of being delayed is that you receive no movement points (updated AH rulebook p 8, 16). In addition, the FAQs (v 1.2, p 4) support this via the following scenario: if you are DELAYED and DRAW an OW encounter that returns you to Arkham, you are still delayed when you return.

Can someone help me by clarifying the game flow rules for when an investigator travels through the OW ordinarily and for when he/she is drawn to the OW via "a gate appears" Arkham encounter? Thanks!
 
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John Paul Sodusta
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I thought all "delayed" does is that you cannot move and you still do the encounters where ever you are.
 
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John Paul Sodusta
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arylblue wrote:
The updated rules state that if one has an Arkham encounter that indicates "a gate appears," the investigator moves to the OW and is delayed (updated AH rulebook p 9). According to the official FAQs (v1.2, p 4), this rule is to prevent an investigator from having only one OW encounter instead of two. By my interpretation of the rules, one would have two OW encounters if they were not delayed and three if they were delayed. This surely is not correct!


Why do you think it is not correct? Being delayed sucks, especially in the Other Worlds. It takes you an extra turn to get out of it to close/seal the gate. Turns are very precious in this game if you are playing with 2-4 players. Being delayed is a pretty significant penalty. You also gotta remember that a huge percentage of the encounters in the Other Worlds are harmful.
 
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John Paul Sodusta
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arylblue wrote:
TURN 1: i) upkeep, ii) move to gate location, iii) move to corresponding OW location, iv) have 1st OW encounter, v) resolve Mythos card
TURN 2: i) upkeep, ii) move to second OW space, iii) nothing happens, iv) have 2nd OW encounter, v) resolve Mythos card
TURN 3: i) upkeep, ii) move back to Arkham through a corresponding gate, iii) attempt to close/seal gate, iv) nothing happens, v) resolve Mythos card.


That is correct.

Quote:
If not delayed:
TURN 1: i) upkeep, ii) move to Arkham location, iii) "A gate appears," move to OW location, but don't delay investigator iv) have 1st OW encounter, v) resolve Mythos card
TURN 2: i) upkeep, ii) move to second OW space, iii) nothing happens, iv) have 2nd OW encounter, v) resolve Mythos card
TURN 3: i) upkeep, ii) move back to Arkham by corresponding gate, iii) attempt to close/seal gate, iv) nothing happens, v) resolve Mythos card


You do get delayed in Turn 1. If you get sucked in through a gate during Arkham Encounter and Mythos Phase, your character gets "delayed." In this scenario you will be spending three turns in the Other World.


Quote:
If delayed:
TURN 1: i) upkeep, ii) move to Arkham location, iii) "A gate appears," move to OW location and delay investigator iv) have 1st OW encounter, v) resolve Mythos card
TURN 2: i) upkeep, ii) stand investigator up, iii) nothing happens, iv) have 2nd OW encounter, v) resolve Mythos card
TURN 3: i) upkeep, ii) move to second OW space, iii) nothing happens, iv) have 3rd OW encounter, v) resolve Mythos card
TURN 4: i) upkeep, ii) move back to Arkham by corresponding gate, iii) attempt to close/seal gate, iv) nothing happens, v) resolve Mythos card


Correct.

Quote:
Can someone help me by clarifying the game flow rules for when an investigator travels through the OW ordinarily and for when he/she is drawn to the OW via "a gate appears" Arkham encounter? Thanks!


During Arkham Encounter phase, if there is a gate in your location, you merely walk into it and go to the corresponding Other World.

If there is no gate and your encounter says that a gate appears in your location, then you are sucked into the Other World and is delayed. You then do a Other World encounter once everyone has completed their Arkham encounters.

Hopefully this helps.
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David Reagan
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Barkam wrote:
Why do you think it is not correct?


I think this is incorrect because according to the official FAQs (v. 1.2 p 4) "If the investigator was not delayed by a gate opening up in his location, he would be able to get through the Other World having only one Other World Encounter rather than two." This makes perfect sense if the investigator is drawn to the OW during the Mythos Phase but doesn't make sense if he/she's drawn during the Arkham Phase. As I indicated in my original post, I come up with 2 encounters if delayed and 3 encounters if not delayed instead of the 1 and 2 indicated by the FAQs.

Because I could not reconcile the FAQs statement, I thought that I may be playing wrong. Your posts seems to confirm that I am playing correctly. However, I am still mystified by that statement in the official FAQs.

Thanks for your response.
 
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Tom Hancock
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arylblue, welcome to BGG.

I think you are playing correctly. Delayed/sucked through - 3 other world encounters. Not delayed - 2 OW encounters. I agree with you that the FAQ entry you quote above implies something the writer probably did not mean it to. Hopefully Kevin Wilson sees this and passes the information on to the army of loyal cultists in his basement that write the faqs.

Edit: I can't spell.
 
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Brian Peters
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Actually the situation which would result in having only 1 OW encounter if you didn't properly Delay the investigator is if the Gate opens on the investigator's location due to a mythos draw. In this situation, you're getting pulled into the OW at the end of a turn, and if you didn't delay the investigator during movement of the next turn the investigator would move to square two of the OW, skipping the encounter for square 1. If Delayed, the Investigator has the normal 2 encounters. I'm not sure how to interpret your readings of what happens if you're pulled through due to a Gate opening during an Arkham Encounter. Your interpretations of the flow seem accurate, and I'm not sure whether or not I personally believe the player should be punished so much for an unlucky encounter... at least any more so than I believe they should be punished for being unlucky enough to pull a Mythos card that opens a Gate right where they are standing.
 
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Miguel de la Casa
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I agree with MrSkeletor.
 
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Christopher KrackerJack
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For what it's worth, I agree with Mr. Skeletor as well.
 
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Tommy Wareing
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Errr, there's a simple fix to this. In fact, it's so simple we may have been using it instinctively and incorrectly since day one:

when the investigator is delayed: knock over their token, and don't give them any more actions that turn.

Thus:
Turn 1. Investigator moves to location. Has Arkham Encounter, during which a gate opens. They move to the Other World, and are delayed. Their turn stops, and they do not have a second encounter this turn.
Turn 2. Stand them up, do not move them, and give them an encounter in the first Other World space.
Turn 3. Move to the second space, and have a second encounter.
Turn 4. Come home.

This is based on the assumption that Investigators are only entitled to have one encounter per turn. It seems unfair to draw an Arkham encounter card (which is done because it's an interesting, and potentially good thing), and then when the gate opens, to draw a second encounter card that turn.

It's the same speed as if the gate opened, and, rather than being drawn through immediately, the investigator was instructed "On your next turn, you cannot leave the location, you do not have to encounter any monsters that happen to be in your space, but you do have to step through the gate, and have an Other World encounter".

Plus, this system is slightly worse than stepping through a known, pre-existing gate: in that case the events I list above under turn 1 and turn 2 are mostly combined (the Arkham Encounter is replace with "Step through the gate", and they jump directly to the first OW encounter).
 
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Tommy Wareing
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MrSkeletor wrote:
All the "A Gate opens" encounter cards don't have anything else 'good' on them though, do they? So I don't see it as an advantage at all to get an otherworld encounter too.
Still, you could be right.


All travel broadens the mind. Travel to other worlds just broadens it into a fairly large, flat sheet. So, by that measure, it's a good thing... (and if there's a Cthonian stomping around in Arkham, it can be a very good thing!)

But the point is that the Invesigator has tried to get a piece of goodness (well, unless they were in the Woods, in which case, presumably they grabbed clue tokens, and are now just trying to get out without getting beating up by the Sheldon gang). Just because they failed doesn't entitle them to the opportunity to draw another card to make up for the one that just did nasty things to them.

Or, more strictly, since all of the above is just colourful hand-waving: investigators only get one encounter per turn (unless specifically instructed by encounter cards, such as "Doyle Jefferies gives you a lift"). At least, that's how we play it.
 
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Alex Martinez
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Gates almost always open on the Mythos phase. So if you're on a location where a gate opens up on the Mythos phase and were not delayed, then the very next turn you would move past the first part of the otherworld without having to have an encounter, since movement comes before encounters.

EXAMPLE #1: GETTING SUCKED INTO AN OPENING GATE WITHOUT DELAY.

MYTHOS PHASE: GATE OPENS IN CHARACTER'S CURRENT LOCATION. CHARACTER IS DRAWN THROUGH IT. SINCE THE GATE OPENED ON MYTHOS PHASE, THERE IS NO CHANCE FOR AN ENCOUNTER.

NEXT TURN PHASE: CHARACTER MOVES TO SECOND OTHERWORLD LOCATION AND HAS ENCOUNTER.

NEXT TURN PHASE: CHARACTER LEAVES OTHERWORLD, RETURNS TO ARKHAM.

There is only one otherworld encounter if the character is not delayed.

Properly done, with delay. It goes like this.

MYTHOS PHASE: GATE OPENS IN CHARACTER'S CURRENT LOCATION. CHARACTER IS DRAWN THROUGH IT AND DELAYED.

NEXT TURN: DELAYED CHARACTER DOESN'T MOVE, REMAINS IN FIRST PART OF OTHERWORLD, HAS FIRST OTHERWORLD ENCOUNTER.

NEXT TURN: CHARACTER MOVES TO SECOND PART OF OTHERWORLD, HAS SECOND ENCOUNTER.

NEXT TURN: CHARACTER MOVES FROM OTHERWORLD TO ARKHAM AFTER HAVING 2 ENCOUNTERS.



So you see that without the Delay for being sucked into a gate, a character would basically skip the first part of the otherworld, thus having only one encounter.
 
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Tommy Wareing
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KingCroc wrote:
Gates almost always open on the Mythos phase. So if you're on a location where a gate opens up on the Mythos phase and were not delayed, then the very next turn you would move past the first part of the otherworld without having to have an encounter, since movement comes before encounters.


But the issue is what happens when the gate opens in the Arkham Encounter phase, since that allows the investigator to be drawn into the Other World, and immediately have an Other World encounter (since the Arkham Encounter phase precedes the Other World encounter phase).
 
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Darrell Pavitt
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I think the FAQ was answering what happens when you get sucked thorugh the gate - If you start yopur move already in the OW (because a gate opened on you) the question was whether you could immediately move straight to the 2nd encounter and miss the first encounter. The FAQ stated that, no, you were delayed, and therefore you couldn't move straight to the second area, and had to have an encounter in the first area.

If you are delayed while already in the OW, you cannot make your next move, and must still take an encounter. It's possible you could be delayed several turns in a row, and must take an encounter for each of them.

The reasoning is that you always have to face at least 2 encounters, and may have to face more than 2 (the exception being if an encounter dumps you back into the real world).

I don't understand King Croc's question:

Quote:
So if you're on a location where a gate opens up on the Mythos phase and were not delayed...


from the rules:

Quote:
If a gate opens at a location that contains an investigator,
he is immediately drawn through the gate to the first
area of the corresponding Other World. As a result of the
sudden disorientation caused by the gate swallowing
him, the investigator is delayed.



So, you are always delayed if sucked through a gate.
 
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Alexander
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Tommie is right i play like this, when i enter a gate suddenly because of the location encounter i delay so i move the character in OW and delay, NO encounters i am too dizzy to do anythingyuk I play again with that character in the next turn so i am getting up the character and DONT move but i am making NOW my first OW encounter then as usual.


hope i helped.
 
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Darrell Pavitt
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OK, I get the question now: do delayed characters who have just been sucked through a gate in the encounter phase have to draw an encounter in the OW.

The rules don't say anything about this, neither does the FAQ. The FAQ does talk about encounters that let you move to a new location and draw a new encounter there. But there is nothing in the rules that says you should skip the OW encounter stage, just because you arrived in the Arkhm phase and are delayed.

So I would play that, yes, you would immediately have an encounter, in addition to the two you will have for moving through the other worlds.

Quote:
NO encounters i am too dizzy to do anything


Just because you are delayed doesn't mean the thing whose lair you have just appeared in is too dizzy to do anything!
 
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David Reagan
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nyhotep wrote:
The reasoning is that you always have to face at least 2 encounters, and may have to face more than 2 (the exception being if an encounter dumps you back into the real world).


I like your reasoning. If this was the designer's intentions, then he should change the FAQs so that in reads "at least 2 encounters" instead of 2 rather than 1.

***

I may have been over-interpreting the FAQs, since it does not specifically mention the Arkham Phase. I've been assuming that it applies to both Arkham and Mythos phases, but the writer may have been implying the Mythos Phase only.

For those interested, there is another thread on BGG that deals with this issue:

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/article/641092#641092

Kevin Wilson replies in this thread that one would otherwise have 1 encounter instead of 2. However, the post doesn't provide any new information since he doesn't qualify as to whether he is writing about the Arkham or Mythos phase. However, it's curious that he quotes: "The rules are designed so that you have 2 OW encounters in a gate before you get to leave (unless something returns you to Arkham early)." Which seems to imply that an investigatodr should NOT be having 3 OW encounters if he/she is delayed!?!?

***

wimble wrote:
This is based on the assumption that Investigators are only entitled to have one encounter per turn.


The rules seem clear that you can have more than one encounter. For instance, if one has an encounter at an Arkam location that sends them to another Arkham location, they have a second encounter there (FAQs v1.2 p 3). I don't see why this can't be extended to if an Arkham encounter sends someone to the OW they have a second encounter there.

***

In conclusion, there is definitely confusion here. Until this is officially clarified by Kevin Wilson, my conclusion is that an investigator has 2 OW encounters "normally" and if he/she gets drawn in during the Mythos Phase, and that an investigator has 3 OW encounters if he/she is drawn in during the Arkham Phase. This is based on a strict reading of the rules and assuming that the FAQs ruling only applys to the Mythos phase.
 
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Dobromir Harrison
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arylblue wrote:
my conclusion is that an investigator has 2 OW encounters "normally" and if he/she gets drawn in during the Mythos Phase, and that an investigator has 3 OW encounters if he/she is drawn in during the Arkham Phase. This is based on a strict reading of the rules and assuming that the FAQs ruling only applys to the Mythos phase.


I'd go with this, too. There's nothing in the rules that says delayed characters don't have encounters - they just don't move. A player drawn unwillingly through a gate during the Arkham Encounters phase would thus have 3 Other World encounters before coming out. I don't really see where the confusion is here.
 
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Alex Martinez
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I guess it depends on how hard you want to make things on the investigators. I don't think an "official" rule reading is required. Just whatever suits you best.

I tend to think along the lines of a characters who are sucked into the Otherworld via an Arkham Encounter should probably not be delayed. If the point of the delay is to ensure that characters don't have an easier time of it. On the other hand, sometimes bad luck just happens, and I have no problem giving an unfortunate investigator (Arkham encounters that open gates are pretty rare) a bad deal. Just depends on how easy or hard you want to make it on the investigators.
 
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Vaughn Sandor
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I've only played once but I think an investigator sucked into a newly opened gate would have 3 OW encounters. Once while delayed and then his usually two. Unless the investigator had his encounter in Arkham before being sucked into the gate because I don't think he should have two encounters in one turn.

Has FFG address this yet?
 
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David Reagan
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Vaughn wrote:
Has FFG address this yet?


I have not seen the original version of the rules, but I am under the impression that the rule in question (being delayed after being drawn by an Arkham encounter) was added in the revised rules. I can only guess that this was added to parallel the rule that if a gate appears in the Mythos Phase you are delayed.

If it was just for the rule book, no confusion would have arisen which is why the consensus seems to be 3 OW encounters after being drawn by an Arkham encounter. However, the current FAQs (v1.2) and a post made by designer Kevin Wilson (see link above) seem to imply only 2 phases. I would love for FFG to clarify this (I sent them an e-mail which was never responded to), but until then I'll play as KingCroc suggests above: "whatever suits you best."
 
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