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Curt Frantz
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The Game

How does one describe Vast? I’m convinced this is one of the most asymmetric games ever created. The players don’t move the same way, attack the same way, or win the same way. Their actions and goals are completely different. This is a very novel concept. Let’s take a look at how the dragon, thief, cave, knight, and goblins each attempt to best each other!

Note: not all details will be included, as they are many and varied. I hope I’ve provided enough of the basics to provide an accurate representation of the gameplay and strategy.




The Board and Components

The board is comprised of tiles. At the start of the game, there will be just 5 tiles including the entrance tile.



In addition to the entrance tile, there are five other tiles in the game as well:

- 15x ambush tiles
- 9x crystal tiles
- 15x event tiles
- 6 treasure room tiles
- 6 vault tiles

The tiles aren’t all used in all games. For example, the vault tiles are removed if the thief is not playing. As you’ll see, the cave player will be responsible for placing these tiles as the game progresses. As you might expect, each player has very different components.

The Knight:

- Player board
- 3 bomb tokens
- 7 hero cubes
- 10 sidequest cards
- 1 knight piece
- 2 health and grit markers (red)



The Goblins


- Player board
- 12 goblin discs (green)
- 4 strength discs (red)
- 2 monster tokens
- 10 war cards
- 10 monster cards
- 10 secret cards
- 3 goblin tribe pieces
- 1 rage token



The Dragon

- Player board
- 1 shriek token
- 1 flamewall token
- 1 dragon die
- 18 power cards
- 2 dragon pieces (slumbering/awakened)
- 14 sloth cubes (dark red)
- 1 eaten goblin marker (green)
- 1 health marker (red)
- 3 dragon token gems



The Cave

- Player board
- 45 cave tiles
- 36 omen tokens and draw bag
- 9 crystal tokens
- 12 treasure tokens
- 3 rockslide tokens
- 10 event tokens
- 15 event cards
- 7 treasure cards
- 1 cave reference card



The Thief

- Player board
- 3 stat tokens
- 1 action die
- 6 vault tokens
- 5 action cubes
- 1 thief piece
- 1 loot drop token



The Gameplay

The gameplay will be broken into sections for each character as well. I won’t go into the nitty-gritty of every action that each character can take, but I’ll go through the basics. I’ll explain what each character is trying to do, and how they’re best able to go about their goals. Keep in mind that these are the goals for a five player game, but that with different combinations of players and characters, the goals and gameplay both change.

The Knight

Goal:

The knight’s goal is to slay the dragon. Unfortunately for the knight, the dragon starts the game well below the level of the other players, in a different section of the cavern. Until the dragon awakens, the knight will only be able to attack with bombs.

A turn:

The knight might have the most traditional game turn of all the characters. Broadly, the knight will be picking up the hero cubes they played the previous turn to redistribute them, and taking actions by moving around the board. The knight has three statistics:

1. Movement: the number of spaces the knight can move on their turn
2. Perception: the number of encounters the knight can have on their turn
3. Strength: determines whether the knight can make certain attacks, and defend against certain attacks.

Each of the above values starts at one each turn, but can be modified by the knight’s hero cubes. If the knight wants to do a lot of moving on their turn, they can place both starting hero cubes on the movement track to move across the board. They’ll still be able to perform one encounter and attack or defend with a strength of one. As the knight gains ‘grit’, he or she will unlock more hero cubes, increasing the number of actions and movements they can take on their turn.

The knight can move onto a dark tile to explore it. This means they reveal and resolve the tile, resolve attacks, and take any treasure that might be on the tile. Revealing and resolving a tile takes one encounter, no matter how many items must be resolved. The ‘light’ side of each placed tile is only known the the cave player, who is placing the tiles. The knight is the character that does most of the exploring during the game, thus furthering the cave’s victory condition of placing all the cave tiles, and then removing them to collapse the cave.

The knight can also attack. If the dragon is underground and the collapse of the cave hasn’t begun, the knight must attack with a bomb token, which is gained via a space on the knight’s player board where they may place hero cubes. The knight’s attack must be greater than the dragon’s health. If the dragon is above ground and awake, the same conditions apply, but the bomb token is not needed.

The knight can also complete sidequests to gain grit, acquire treasure tokens, and collect dragon gems. These generally allow the knight to ‘level up’ and become more powerful by gaining grit, which allows the knight to take more actions.

If the knight kills the dragon before another player completes their victory condition, they win!

The Goblins

Goal:

The goblin tribes’ goal is to kill the knight.

A turn:

The goblins are somewhat straightforward. On the player’s board, they have space to track the three goblin tribes (fangs, bones, eye). The tribes can each contain zero to four goblins and may collect strength bonuses and monsters. At the start of the turn, the player draws war cards equal to their rage value. If rage is at zero, the player increases it to one and draws a card. They then choose a card to apply and populate their tribes with the appropriate number of goblins. They also assign any monsters granted by the card (up to the limit of one per tribe, except bones tribe (two)). The maximum number of monsters across all tribes cannot be greater than the population of the bones tribe. These monsters provide bonuses to the assigned tribe. The fangs tribe always contains a strength bonus of plus one and the eye tribe is able to draw secrets cards, which may be played at any time on the players turn.

Once the war card is applied, each goblin tribe may perform one action. They may:

- Move: goblin tribes may move any number of tiles, applying the light penalty if moving through light tiles.

- Attack: the tribes may attack the knight, thief, or dragon (with certain variants) on their tile. They are also able to smash crystals. To pass through a tile containing the knight, the tribe’s strength (number of goblins plus modifiers) must be greater than the knight’s strength. If the knight is attacked, they lose one health and the goblin tribe scatters, decreasing the goblins’ rage by one. (scatter: when a tribe attacks, gets attacked, or is reduced to zero population, it scatters. Place it on your board, decrease its population by two and discard its monster card). Tribes can also be scattered when their population is made to increase above the limit of four goblins.

- Plunder: gain treasure tokens or dragon gems.

- Explore: force the cave to place dark tiles in empty spaces adjacent to a goblin tribe.

- Reveal: reveal a tribe by moving its marker from the player board to a matching symbol (on a dark tile) of the main board.

- Hide: remove the tribe from the board, placing it on the player board (allowing it to ambush, on specific ambush tiles the knight might explore).

The Dragon

Goal:

The dragon’s goal is to fully awaken from its slumber and escape from the cave. The dragon needs to avoid being killed by the knight, and eat as many goblins as possible along the way.

A turn:

While slumbering, it is the dragon’s goal to avoid the knight and the knight’s bombs, while removing cubes from the sloth boxes and placing them on the wakefulness track.

1. Move and use powers: the dragon is dealt cards each hand, and will use powers depending on the symbols present on the cards. The powers are clearly represented on the player board and allow to player to attack goblins, reveal tiles, attack the knight, move the knight, move treasure, etc. The dragon has all kinds of options. The dragon may also spend the power symbols on any dragon gems that remain on the main board (see step 4). Many of the dragon’s actions involve rolling the dragon die.

2. Pick up treasure: the dragon may collect treasure on its tile.

3. Place dragon gems: the dragon may place a dragon gem of their choice, if they have any, on their current cave tile. It behooves the dragon to place these in a space that isn’t easily accessible to the other players, because it will grant actions if it remains on the board for future turns. Each other player, except the cave, is able to collect the dragon gems and likely gain benefits from them.

4. Replace hand: the dragon discards all remaining cards and draws back up, to the level indicated on the reached on the wakefulness track.
The dragon can remove sloth cubes from three areas (one per area per turn):

1. Greed: cubes are removed by picking up treasure tokens.
2. Hunger: cubes are removed by eating goblins
3. Pride: cubes are removed by revealing event tiles, not moving for a turn, or placing a dragon gem while any remain on the map.

As the cubes are moved from the sloth tracks to the wakefulness track, the dragon becomes more powerful.

Once surfaced by awakening and reaching a crystal tile, the dragon simply has to make it to the entrance tile to win the game.

The Cave

Goal:

The cave’s goal is to expand the cave by first playing all the cave tiles and then destroying tiles until five crystals have been collapsed.

A turn:

1. Collect omen tokens: this is according to the number of treasure tokens plus the number of crystal tokens on the board. The more that are on the board, the more powerful the cave will be. The omen tokens allow the player to take actions similar to the dragon and their power cards. Different combinations of omens allow the cave to take different actions, allowing them to make life more difficult for the other players.

2. Shape the cave: the cave will choose a tile from their hand of three and place it dark side up, adjacent to any tile on the map. If crystal tiles are in hand, the cave must place those first. Once the last tile in the cave’s hand has been placed the collapse will begin on the next cave turn.

3. Place a treasure: the cave places a treasure token on a dark cave tile that doesn’t contain a player piece or a treasure token.

The cave also has control over other aspects of the game, such as which treasure cards the knight is granted. During the collapse, the cave will remove three tiles per turn instead of placing more. As soon as five crystals have been destroyed, the cave wins. The cave must remove tiles from the outside inwards (i.e. removing tiles that only have one adjacent tile before removing those with 2 and 3 adjacent tiles). The cave is the overseer. They need to make sure the game is balanced and continues long enough to snatch victory from underneath the other players.

The Thief

Goal:

The thief’s goal is to acquire and stash six treasure or dragon gem tokens to break their curse. Really, they want to interact with the other players as little as possible.

A turn:

1. Assign stat tokens: the thief will assign their three stat tokens to the movement, stealth, and thievery spaces on their player board, one to each. Action cubes equal to the thievery will be placed onto the player board. Stat tokens remain until reassigned on the next turn.

- Movement: the total number of tiles the thief may move on their turn.

- Stealth: determines how well the thief can avoid attacks.

- Thievery: the number of action cubes the thief gets on their turn.

2. Move and take actions: The thief may move by spending movement points and take actions, by spending action cubes from their board. Spending more action cubes improves the effectiveness or chance of success of an action. The thief may move between lit and dark tiles, and may pass into and through tiles occupied by other players. If movement is ended on a dark tile, the thief may view the tile, deciding whether or not to reveal it. The thief may:

- Loot: collect one treasure or dragon gem from the thief’s tile.

- Climb: find new routes through the cave by passing through a wall or impassable terrain.

- Pickpocket: steal treasure from another player.

- Pick lock: open a vault.

- Backstab: attack to injure another player on the thief’s tile.

- Hide loot: make themself less lucrative to kill.

When attacking other players or vice versa, the thief’s stealth is compared to the player’s perception.

When the thief acquires treasure or dragon gems, they must stash it by taking it to the entrance tile. Carrying a treasure or gem reduces the thief’s stealth by one.

When the thief dies, all their unstashed treasure and dragon gems are dropped. They may be recovered by returning to the drop location and using a loot action. The other players gain bonuses for killing the thief.

The thief also has opportunities to upgrade each of their actions, becoming more powerful as the game progresses.


The game is over immediately when one player completes their objective and they are declared the winner!

Final Thoughts

Strengths:

Asymmetry – I’m a sucker for asymmetry in games, as long as the roles are balanced (see below). Each of the roles is fun to play and they all seem competitive.

Fun factor – I haven’t played all the roles yet, but all of the characters seem like so much fun! As long as the game is kept moving at a good clip, it’s hard to overstate the fun factor in this game. It feels much like a traditional dungeon crawler, but each player at the table is playing an entirely different game. How cool is that?

Balance? – This game seems incredibly well balanced. Sure, some characters are probably more beginner friendly or challenging, but it seems like there is a very real path to victory for each character. I won’t truly be able to speak to the balance until I’ve played 10 or 12 games.

Replay value – With the asymmetry leading to hundreds of possible iterations, this game won’t get old quickly. The terrain and multiple variants also add to the replayability. The shape of the cave will obviously vary greatly from game to game as well.

Weaknesses:

Information overload – There is so much going on in this game. It’s mostly a good thing, but new players can find it quite daunting. Players can’t go into a game expecting to understand how all five roles work. If they do, it’ll be a slow game and/or they’ll be disappointed. This can lead to:

Analysis paralysis – This is supposed to be a quick moving, dungeon-crawling game of exploration and combat. It’s possible that some players may bog this game down with questions and analysis of interactions that can really only be learned by experiencing. Players shouldn’t treat this game like a spreadsheet; they’ll only really learn the roles by playing them.

How easy is the game to learn?

Calm down! Two stars doesn’t mean it's not worth it; it just means there is a lot of information to digest. As stated above a new player needs to focus on learning their role. If they do that, they’ll be okay, and the rest will come by playing the game and observing the other interactions. It’s impossible to go into a first game knowing all the interactions and possibilities.

How easy will it be to find players?

The theme and novel concept will really draw new players in. Even though the game is fun, it may be a challenge to find players to play again. Frankly, there will be a significant amount of effort during the first couple games to understand the roles and interactions. If the effort is there, the players will be rewarded, but some may choose to play/learn games that don’t take the same amount of effort. Once this hurdle is cleared, the game really isn’t difficult to play.

Is the reward worth the time spent?

In general, yes! This metric might not hold true for the first couple games. They will probably take a bit longer if there are multiple new players. Turns will go slower as the players realize what they should be doing and how they should be doing it. Again, once this hurdle is cleared (I feel like I’m repeating myself), the game should only take about 90 minutes and the reward is definitely worth it.

How much fun is defeat?*

Winning this game feels great! I really feel like I’ve accomplished something cool. This game feels very puzzly, and I love unlocking the puzzle more optimally than other players. However, losing this game is also fun. Most of my decisions in Vast are tactical, usually concerning just the given turn. “What can I do right now to further my objective and get in other players’ ways?” Playing the game successfully feels much like playing it…err…unsuccessfully, as most of my focus is on my character anyway, with only a peripheral view of the other players and their boards. (note: I’m probably not playing particularly well)

Overall score

*I think one of the best ways to evaluate a game is to consider how much fun it is to lose. The goal is to have fun whether I've won or lost!


If you enjoyed reading this review, feel free to check out my other game reviews HERE



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David desJardins
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WHY do the Goblins want to kill the Knight that's trying to kill the Dragon that's eating them?
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Stefan Van der Meulen
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Because they have been living in peace for ages on top of a sleeping dragon that did not harm them in any way. Enters the knight to disturb everything and wake up the dragon (and the cave!). So they hope that everything can turn back to "normal" by killing the intruder, so that the dragon can go back to sleep...
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Brad Scaggs

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Great review. It's definitely a game that is tough to get through the first few games as the players learn their roles. I hope these initial struggles do not turn too many people away from the fun that is available once things are figured out.

There are so many components to keep track of. I really need to work on a better storage system for all the bits. I'm probably going to have to go to the container store or staples. I normally bag everything and that will have to due until I figure out something better.

Really appreciated your gameplay breakdown as well. Great work.
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Yoki Erdtman
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Great review. How well does the game scale with different player numbers? You mention that gameplay, and goals change with the number of players, can any role face off against any other, or are only certain roles used based on the number of players?
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Kyle
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DaviddesJ wrote:
WHY do the Goblins want to kill the Knight that's trying to kill the Dragon that's eating them?
They're hungry too.
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Brad Scaggs

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Yokiboy wrote:
Great review. How well does the game scale with different player numbers? You mention that gameplay, and goals change with the number of players, can any role face off against any other, or are only certain roles used based on the number of players?


The game is built around the ability to play any combo from 1-5 players using variants that modify how things work and certain objectives. Currently, you can't play the cave solo.

From what I've seen, this game scales fantastically.
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Yoki Erdtman
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cromusz wrote:
The game is built around the ability to play any combo from 1-5 players using variants that modify how things work and certain objectives. Currently, you can't play the cave solo.

From what I've seen, this game scales fantastically.
That sounds wonderful. Are the rules available online? I'd love to give them a read.
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Sebastian Beck
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Yokiboy wrote:
Great review. How well does the game scale with different player numbers? You mention that gameplay, and goals change with the number of players, can any role face off against any other, or are only certain roles used based on the number of players?


We played two games with 3 so far:

First game with dragon, knight and goblins works very well.

The second game with dragon, goblins and cave was not that funny. The dragon won by a landslide and we did not see anyting to stop him. The dragon slays Goblins very easy and the cave is too slow to catch up.

So balance-wise: Not all combinations work.

Our group member played two matches the day before with 2 players and they did not work as well.

So stick with 4 our use combinations where everyone has its counterpart.
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Brad Scaggs

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Yokiboy wrote:
cromusz wrote:
The game is built around the ability to play any combo from 1-5 players using variants that modify how things work and certain objectives. Currently, you can't play the cave solo.

From what I've seen, this game scales fantastically.
That sounds wonderful. Are the rules available online? I'd love to give them a read.


I found this in another thread:
jerkules wrote:
Yep, asked the same question a few days ago. Rules can be found here:

https://drive.google.com/drive/u/0/folders/0B8xlQYyEm7zMfndS...

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neko flying
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Yokiboy wrote:
Great review. How well does the game scale with different player numbers? You mention that gameplay, and goals change with the number of players, can any role face off against any other, or are only certain roles used based on the number of players?


Any role can face off against every other, and every role can also play solo (except for the Cave). So there are 30 possibile combinations of roles. How well do these combinations work? I have created a poll here:

Poll: Rate all the Role Variants!
Rate all the Role Variants in Vast: The Crystal Caverns!
1. 4 / 5 Players
  Best Recommended Not Recommended
5 Players.
4 Players: No Thief.
4 Players: No Cave.
4 Players: No Dragon.
4 Players: No Goblins.
4 Players: No Knight.
2. 3 Players, no Thief.
  Best Recommended Not Recommended
Knight, Goblins, Dragon.
Knight, Goblins, Cave.
Knight, Dragon, Cave.
Goblins, Dragon, Cave.
3. 3 Players, with Thief
  Best Recommended Not Recommended
Knight, Goblins, Thief.
Knight, Dragon, Thief.
Knight, Cave, Thief.
Goblins, Dragon, Thief.
Goblins, Cave, Thief.
Dragon, Cave, Thief.
4. 2 Players, no Thief.
  Best Recommended Not Recommended
Knight vs. Goblins.
Knight vs. Dragon.
Goblins vs. Dragon.
Knight vs. Cave.
Dragon vs. Cave.
Goblins vs. Cave.
5. 2 Players, with Thief.
  Best Recommended Not Recommended
Knight vs. Thief.
Goblins vs. Thief.
Dragon vs. Thief.
Cave vs. Thief.
6. Solo.
  Best Recommended Not Recommended
Solo Knight.
Solo Goblins.
Solo Dragon.
Solo Thief.
      43 answers
Poll created by flying_neko


not so many votes so far, but it gives you a first impression.
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Curt Frantz
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DaviddesJ wrote:
WHY do the Goblins want to kill the Knight that's trying to kill the Dragon that's eating them?


If someone was chucking bombs around your home, wouldn't you want them gone?


cromusz wrote:
I hope these initial struggles do not turn too many people away from the fun that is available once things are figured out.


I agree. There's a really good game here if that is overcome. I hope I'm able to find a dedicated group that wants to play a number of times and switch roles, so that everyone can learn every role. Then the real game begins...


Yokiboy wrote:
Great review. How well does the game scale with different player numbers? You mention that gameplay, and goals change with the number of players, can any role face off against any other, or are only certain roles used based on the number of players?


I can't speak much to this. I've played with 5 players and 4 players. In the 4 player variant we simply left out the thief, who basically plays his/her own game anyway, so it played much the same. As others have pointed out, this can be played with just about any combination of roles. My thought is that the game will play optimally with the full complement of 5 players, which is how the game was obviously designed. It will be interesting to see which combinations work well and which don't.
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Patrick Leder
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tribefan07 wrote:

Yokiboy wrote:
Great review. How well does the game scale with different player numbers? You mention that gameplay, and goals change with the number of players, can any role face off against any other, or are only certain roles used based on the number of players?


I can't speak much to this. I've played with 5 players and 4 players. In the 4 player variant we simply left out the thief, who basically plays his/her own game anyway, so it played much the same. As others have pointed out, this can be played with just about any combination of roles. My thought is that the game will play optimally with the full complement of 5 players, which is how the game was obviously designed. It will be interesting to see which combinations work well and which don't.


As the group gets good enough to keep the Cave without treasure (particularly when the Thief is in the game) the Cave will be weaker. The Thief needs to participate in the control of the game's flow just as much as the Cave does, by stealing Treasure or Backstabbing.
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Ponder Stibbons
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GreenM wrote:
tribefan07 wrote:
Yokiboy wrote:
As the group gets good enough to keep the Cave without treasure (particularly when the Thief is in the game) the Cave will be weaker. The Thief needs to participate in the control of the game's flow just as much as the Cave does, by stealing Treasure or Backstabbing.

Maybe this will change in time as everyone becomes more efficient, but in my groups the very mobile goblins were the ones freely snatching up treasures. it's lazy (cowardly) overpopulation management (rage), stalling for secrets/monsters, and often just to see the knight turn green with envy. lack of treasure seems to slow all the other players down, but i'm not sure how to encourage the goblins to leave them alone short of cave making a deal with the dragon. adding thief doesn't seem like it'd slow down the cave since his unstashed treasures (and gems) still count for cave (and dragon), right? hmmmm, although, backstabbing/pick-pocketing goblins would be a great lesson in rage management and when not to slow down the game haha.
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Brad Scaggs

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The cave has the ability to feed treasures to the characters that need them the most. If the dragon is gaining too fast, feed the knight. If the knight if gaining too fast, feed the goblins. If the goblins are gaining too fast, feed the dragon.

The cave's goal is to keep the game going as long as possible to cycle through the tile stack.
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Beckikaze wrote:
The second game with dragon, goblins and cave was not that funny. The dragon won by a landslide and we did not see anyting to stop him. The dragon slays Goblins very easy and the cave is too slow to catch up.

So balance-wise: Not all combinations work.


It's been my experience that if a role is too easy, you've missed a few rules.

That's why I recommend reading the rules, playing the game, then reading the rules again to see what you missed.
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Dylan Thurston
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Rumbelow wrote:
GreenM wrote:
tribefan07 wrote:
Yokiboy wrote:
As the group gets good enough to keep the Cave without treasure (particularly when the Thief is in the game) the Cave will be weaker. The Thief needs to participate in the control of the game's flow just as much as the Cave does, by stealing Treasure or Backstabbing.

Maybe this will change in time as everyone becomes more efficient, but in my groups the very mobile goblins were the ones freely snatching up treasures. it's lazy (cowardly) overpopulation management (rage), stalling for secrets/monsters, and often just to see the knight turn green with envy. lack of treasure seems to slow all the other players down, but i'm not sure how to encourage the goblins to leave them alone short of cave making a deal with the dragon. adding thief doesn't seem like it'd slow down the cave since his unstashed treasures (and gems) still count for cave (and dragon), right? hmmmm, although, backstabbing/pick-pocketing goblins would be a great lesson in rage management and when not to slow down the game haha.
This surprises me, since if the goblins are spending their time picking up treasures they are taking time away from their primary goal of killing the knight, which they really need to focus on if they want to kill her off in time.
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Dylan Thurston
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stoneleaf wrote:
Beckikaze wrote:
The second game with dragon, goblins and cave was not that funny. The dragon won by a landslide and we did not see anyting to stop him. The dragon slays Goblins very easy and the cave is too slow to catch up.

So balance-wise: Not all combinations work.


It's been my experience that if a role is too easy, you've missed a few rules.

That's why I recommend reading the rules, playing the game, then reading the rules again to see what you missed.
Have you played this combination specifically? I haven't, although off-hand I would expect the goblins to use their great mobility to try to stay out of the dragon's way, or at least avoid plays where the dragon can kill two tribes at once. (They need at least 2 out of the 3 tribes to survive the dragon's turn in order to be able to smash a crystal.)
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Kyle
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dthurston wrote:
stoneleaf wrote:
Beckikaze wrote:
The second game with dragon, goblins and cave was not that funny. The dragon won by a landslide and we did not see anyting to stop him. The dragon slays Goblins very easy and the cave is too slow to catch up.

So balance-wise: Not all combinations work.


It's been my experience that if a role is too easy, you've missed a few rules.

That's why I recommend reading the rules, playing the game, then reading the rules again to see what you missed.
Have you played this combination specifically? I haven't, although off-hand I would expect the goblins to use their great mobility to try to stay out of the dragon's way, or at least avoid plays where the dragon can kill two tribes at once. (They need at least 2 out of the 3 tribes to survive the dragon's turn in order to be able to smash a crystal.)
When you're doing Goblins vs Dragon (with or without a Cave player), the Goblins need to kill the [Ash] Dragon and don't care much about crystals.

The trick is revealing them in places where they'll be close enough to attack the dragon, but not so close that it can eat all of the active tribes in a single turn.
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The Cave (me) has to play as a supporter then, which causes tile combinations that are not that profitable for me.

So it felt that I could slow down the Dragon by supporting the Goblins which leads to my loss.

I have the feeling that some combinations do not work are kinda boring to play where other combinations totally rock.
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DaviddesJ wrote:
WHY do the Goblins want to kill the Knight that's trying to kill the Dragon that's eating them?

LOL!

As to your question: Because they're Goblins, silly! They're just kind of nasty, always wake up on the wrong side of the bed, and greatly resent the extreme Goodness that the Knight represents.

The real question is, why are they so bad at killing the Knight? (My one game as the Goblins did not go well. Honestly, it was one of the worst gaming experiences I've ever had!)
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Larry Levy wrote:
DaviddesJ wrote:
WHY do the Goblins want to kill the Knight that's trying to kill the Dragon that's eating them?

LOL!

As to your question: Because they're Goblins, silly! They're just kind of nasty, always wake up on the wrong side of the bed, and greatly resent the extreme Goodness that the Knight represents.

The real question is, why are they so bad at killing the Knight? (My one game as the Goblins did not go well. Honestly, it was one of the worst gaming experiences I've ever had!)


Then you definitely did something bad/wrong. The goblins are a very real threat to the Knight, regardless of number of players/variant. If anything, they're too good at killing the knight.
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Well my sample size is only one game, but so far I'v got the same impression. 1st game with 5 players, I was the only one with one Dragon vs Knight game under my belt, all others played for the first time.

The game ended in a Cave win, with Dragon, Thief and Knight all 1-2 turns away from winning (so an awesome balanced exciting game). I was Goblins and was dead last, needing 4 more hits on the knight. To me it seems at least that the goblins are hardest to grasp. Most of the game I had more the feeling I was fodder for anyone else then a treat for the knight. At least after the first 3-4 turns. Ow well - cannot wait to try again...
 
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Jérôme Blanchette
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I did Goblins/Dragon/Cave too. Cave won (collapsing 5 carefully placed crystal tiles in one turn using 2 hatred), dragon was at 2 health, surfaced and close to the exit, but it would have long died if the cave didn't save its ass by walling off the goblins using crystal curse and moving them with giant bats, also, soporific spores is good against the dragon to slow it down. All in all it was a very close game.

My guess is your dragon player just played better than the other two, or the goblin player was careless (they have to be spread out enough so the dragon can't scatter two tribes in one shot). I have yet to find any combination that seems unbalanced, as long as you respect the suggested variants for each combo in the manual.
 
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