Kyle Krebs
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Hi all,

basically in the three games I played of this, the grenade launcher seems ridiculously OP. I had Anita with the grenade launcher and another character also with the grenade launcher and we were basically unstoppable.

Correct me if I'm wrong (basing this off memory) but you can use the grenade launcher for free (doesn't require an action die) ONCE per round to remove two zombies ANYWHERE on the board, not just at your location? Plus, Anita's special ability lets you remove one zombie at her location for free (again, no action die) plus you don't have to roll for exposure in either case?

The between Anita and my other character with the GL, I was removing 5 zombies every turn! It seems waaaay too easy.


Second question: The rules say that during the colony phase you have to pay one food for every two survivors in the colony rounded up. So, my understanding of "for every two" is that if you had only 1 survivor in the colony you wouldn't have to pay anything. Is this correct?

The wording they used is not the same as saying "pay 1 food equal to half the number of survivors in the colony rounded up". In the latter case, with 1 survivor in the colony I would indeed pay 1 food.


Thanks!
 
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Qurx 28
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" The rules say that during the colony phase you have to pay one food for every two survivors in the colony rounded up."

The rounded up part means you have to have 1 food if you only have 1 survivor. ( what else would rounded up refer to here if I'm wrong )
And thematically it seems more correct to do so. Even if there is only one survivor (s)he need to eat right?

And yes the grenade launcher seems very powerfull to me as well. I played it without spending a dice, and it almost feels like cheating. I played with alfonso who can use up 2 food to search an itemdeck for a weapon. So I grabbed the grenade launcher at turn one from the colony.

So I'm not sure what the rulings are on it, but I think I'm going to play it as if it costs an action die from now on. So what I'm saying is: I don't know, but you can houserule it if you feel it is more balanced that way.

 
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Kyle Krebs
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Yeah, I get what you mean too about the rounded up part but it's preceded by the part that says "for every two". I mentioned that it would mean a different thing if they had said "half the survivors rounded up".

In other words, if you only have one survivor in the colony that wouldn't meet the "for every two" requirement and you'd have nothing to round up.

I figured, thematically, it was assumed that if you only had one survivor in the colony then their consumption of food would be so little as to not even affect the supply, similar to how survivors in non-colony locations don't need to eat because they're assumed to find their own food.

Looking at it from another perspective, it would be weird, thematically, if one survivor consumes one can of food and two survivors consume also one can of food...
 
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One survivor only consums a half can of food but puts the other hald in the waste.
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Qurx 28
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Well I see it like this: you have to round up to a number of pairs. So 3 survivors would be 1.5 pairs, rounding up to 2 pairs. And 1 survivor would be 0.5 pair, rounding up to 1 pair.
I'm convinced you are meant to have to pay the food in that situation. But if you think I'm wrong or just prefer not doing so because you think it fits the theme better (or some other reason) then I encourage you to play the way you want! As long as the other players you play with agree.
 
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Jason
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kylekrebs wrote:
Yeah, I get what you mean too about the rounded up part but it's preceded by the part that says "for every two". I mentioned that it would mean a different thing if they had said "half the survivors rounded up".


What they were going for was "round up to the nearest two."
 
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Qurx wrote:
Well I see it like this: you have to round up to a number of pairs. So 3 survivors would be 1.5 pairs, rounding up to 2 pairs. And 1 survivor would be 0.5 pair, rounding up to 1 pair.
I'm convinced you are meant to have to pay the food in that situation. But if you think I'm wrong or just prefer not doing so because you think it fits the theme better (or some other reason) then I encourage you to play the way you want! As long as the other players you play with agree.


This is not a good suggestion in the case when playing with a traitor. It makes it more difficult for him and he can't vote against it since this would blow his cover.
 
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Todd France
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kylekrebs wrote:
Yeah, I get what you mean too about the rounded up part but it's preceded by the part that says "for every two". I mentioned that it would mean a different thing if they had said "half the survivors rounded up".

In this case, what are you rounding?
 
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Qurx 28
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ZdadrDeM wrote:
Qurx wrote:
Well I see it like this: you have to round up to a number of pairs. So 3 survivors would be 1.5 pairs, rounding up to 2 pairs. And 1 survivor would be 0.5 pair, rounding up to 1 pair.
I'm convinced you are meant to have to pay the food in that situation. But if you think I'm wrong or just prefer not doing so because you think it fits the theme better (or some other reason) then I encourage you to play the way you want! As long as the other players you play with agree.


This is not a good suggestion in the case when playing with a traitor. It makes it more difficult for him and he can't vote against it since this would blow his cover.


Although I do agree it can lead to some tricky situations, it doesn't have to be.
I mean, the players can openly discuss the rules of the game right? In the rules perspective your ingame role doesn't count. Or do you think people will always vote for what is in favor for their ingame role?
I imagine most will choose what seems most logical to them for the game. Thus not nessecairily that is best for their ingame situation.
But if you beleive otherwise you can always made sure before the roles are known! (before starting the game) So everyone will (hopefully) have a more neutral opinion.
Thanks for pointing out a possibly tricky situation with my suggestion
 
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Ryan M
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Yeah, the grenade launcher is awesome. I am slowly starting to mix the two sets together and someone already posted some suggestions for good ways to randomize the decks without messing with the numbers, which the suggested method in the manual will do.

Basically, you add the books or weapons from the original set into The Long Night. And if the police station has 5 weapons in it, you shuffle all the weapons from both sets and randomly add 5. That way the balance remains and yet you never can be certain a certain weapon (such as the grenade launcher) will be available or not. Same with books at the library, as another example. It adds a bit of extra set up and sorting time, but I think it will go a long way to adding variety and variability and people can't just try and hunt down/rely on the really awesome items like the grenade launcher.

Aside from that, everyone at the colony needs to eat. If you only have 1 or 3 or 5 people, you need 1 or 2 or 3 food tokens. You round up to the next pairing of two. So 1 person is rounded up to 2 and 3 people are rounded up to 4. I notice you didn't mention zombie placement in the colony which is the same as feeding. Did you also not add zombies if there was only 1 person at the colony, or ignore any odd numbered survivor?
 
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You always round up food tokens. I haven't received the expansion or the instruction booklet that comes with it, but in the base game, you definitely round up for purposes of food consumption. You also round up for zombies placed during the add zombies phase at the colony.
 
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David "Davy" Ashleydale
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I'm confident that what they meant was that 1 can of food can feed up to 2 people. They could have worded it better, though.

So if you have 3 people that need to eat, you're going to have to use 2 cans of food -- 1 can won't cut it for 3 people. And it's unfortunate that you have to open the 2 cans because there will be some left over that you can't save for later.

And if there's just 1 person in the Colony, they have to go ahead and open that 1 big can of food, It's wasteful, but it's better than not eating at all.
 
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D L
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Thematically think of 1 survivor using one token and not being able to eat all of it before it spoils. The token, though a can, is not necessarily saying how much food it provides. It could be perishable, it could have gotten infested by bugs, could have been a few different things other than those....such as rats, or raccoons, etc etc.

This takes care of the 2 people, 1 token issue in that regards. 2 people finish the food. 1 person does not.
 
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Kyle Krebs
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Hi guys,

Thanks for all the input. Alright, it looks like you're all in agreement so I'll play it that way then. Thematically, I think either way would make sense. I wish they had worded it better though haha.


How about for the grenade launcher? Am I using it right? Do you think it's broken/OP? In every game I've played so far, someone just goes straight to the police station turn 1 and searches for the grenade launcher. Once we get that, the game becomes a cakewalk haha. I was kind of hoping the zombies would feel like more of a threat. What are your thoughts?


Thanks!
 
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Kyle Krebs
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Hi Todd,

In this case you wouldn't round anything since the "for every two" part would take precedence. In other words, you would first check to see if you have two survivors--if not, you pay nothing; if you do, you'll pay some amount of food--then, if you do have two or more survivors, you check how many multiples of two you have, and if it contains a fraction you round up.

At least that's how I understood it because otherwise you wouldn't have to say "for every two"... you could just say "divide in half and round up."

But anyway, it's all academic at this point. I think I'll just go ahead and play it the same way everyone else seems to be doing it.

Thanks!
 
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kylekrebs wrote:
Hi Todd,

In this case you wouldn't round anything since the "for every two" part would take precedence. In other words, you would first check to see if you have two survivors--if not, you pay nothing; if you do, you'll pay some amount of food--then, if you do have two or more survivors, you check how many multiples of two you have, and if it contains a fraction you round up.

At least that's how I understood it because otherwise you wouldn't have to say "for every two"... you could just say "divide in half and round up."

But anyway, it's all academic at this point. I think I'll just go ahead and play it the same way everyone else seems to be doing it.

Thanks!


It is worded poorly, but you definitely need to feed your survivor at the colony even if there is only 1 person there.
 
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Ryan M
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kylekrebs wrote:
Hi guys,

Thanks for all the input. Alright, it looks like you're all in agreement so I'll play it that way then. Thematically, I think either way would make sense. I wish they had worded it better though haha.


How about for the grenade launcher? Am I using it right? Do you think it's broken/OP? In every game I've played so far, someone just goes straight to the police station turn 1 and searches for the grenade launcher. Once we get that, the game becomes a cakewalk haha. I was kind of hoping the zombies would feel like more of a threat. What are your thoughts?


Thanks!


You are definitely using the grenade launcher right. I don't think it's broken at all, but it MAY be a bit OP. It's basically like having two sniper rifles equipped to a character in the base game. Except I think Long Night actually has two grenade launchers at the police station...which is like having 4 sniper rifles in the original game. Add to that a sniper character and other characters with free "kill" abilities? Or even the ability to discard food to grab any gun you want? Things can get pretty "easy" on the zombie front. That doesn't even include the improvements (ie. trench) or the father character who can also reduce zombies being placed.

However. I'm reluctant to fully call it "op" just yet. I've only played 3 games of Long Night so far and the impression I get is a lot of the new character abilities and cards have been designed to deal with zombies. Almost as if when they playtested the game, tons of zombies were coming out all the time and players felt there needed to be more of a way to fight them. But that hasn't been my experience at all, even with the modules AND even in games where we didn't have the grenade launcher. So if zombies aren't any more prevalent in Long Night, than the original, it seems odd they would provide so many new (and free) ways to quickly take out zombies. If they are supposed to be more common, I haven't experienced that yet.

Then again, with a "meta-cooperative" game like this, I'm reluctant to pre-judge any strategy as being too good or OP. You could try playing the betrayor variant, or the hard version of objectives and see how that affects your games. How the modules mix in and affect different scenarios could also make a difference. For example, does Raxxon or Bandits (or both combined) play differently depending on the main objective. Personally, I found including bandits in the "clear out the colony" mission didn't really add any threat. Having them in a "search" mission, however, may be a whole different thing. "Too many mouths" and "Leave it all Behind" from the original set are my two favorite scenarios and seemingly the toughest. I'm eager to see how the modules and new characters/items affect those.

The Long Night has tons of items and characters who provide free zombie kills, often without even needing an exposure roll. I'm assuming this was done to "balance" the game which seems to imply having games where zombies are much more of a threat. But so far, I haven't seen it. Perhaps it is because I've mostly played the "fight" scenarios and not the more search heavy? Searching is more difficult in Long Night due to the lack of "search" characters and blueprints. Plus most of the free kill characters have really bad search stats.

I've already started mixing my sets, and I'm excited to see how the game feels now. As per my post above, I'm also going to randomize the weapons at the police station with the base cards. Not sure if it will be a fully random weapon draw (which could mean no grenade launcher but more pistols...or could mean two grenade launchers and two sniper rifles) or if I will just play around with customizing my own police station deck.

To be honest, I think owning both the original and Long Night is the ideal way to go at this point. You not only have tons of content, but the ability to customize the game if you feel certain items, characters, scenarios, etc are too good.
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Kyle Krebs
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Hi Ryan,

You're right, there are two grenade launchers at the police station. My experience has been pretty much similar to yours. In the 4 games I've played so far the zombies weren't even close to being a threat at all. In fact it was felt like during the colony phase, I'd add x number of zombies and immediately after during the player phase I'd be removing almost the same number of zombies "for free" . So even with almost all of our survivors out on the board, we'd only have to deal with a net total of 2 or 3 zombies each turn.

I might try mixing the two sets like you suggested actually. Thanks
 
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Brett Thomason
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Both my games so far have been the introductory Raxon scenario, one win and one loss. Even with the grenade launcher it was a close game both times due to the Raxon zombies being unaffected by it (it's not an attack) and the extra zombies being placed at the colony.

Any game where the colony is at increased risk renders the launcher less effective. If you think it's going to OP in your scenario then just use the Raxon module to make it less so.

Just in case anyone's doubting the launcher vs Raxon zombies, page 18 4th paragraph after 'containment code failure or thumbs down' - 'Special zombies can only be killed with a regular attack. Other game effects such as items and character abilities THAT DO NOT INVOLVE AN ATTACK, or explosive traps that would normally kill a zombie DO NOT AFFECT SPECIAL ZOMBIES.'

Not only that, but if you do make an attack at a location, you have to target special zombies first, possibly leading to some very unpleasant situations if you need to go to those locations.
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