GeekGold Bonus for All Supporters at year's end: 1000!

8,045 Supporters

$15 min for supporter badge & GeekGold bonus
21 Days Left

Support:

Recommend
 
 Thumb up
 Hide
21 Posts

Mansions of Madness: Second Edition» Forums » Rules

Subject: Duke and the Flux Stabilizer rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Anthony Harlan

Oregon
msg tools
mb
Ashcan has the rule that he starts with Duke. The app then lists Duke as one of the possessions to divvy up. Do you play that Duke starts in Ashcan's possession, or that he gets apportioned just like the axe? (Same for Flux Stabilizer)

Also, since Duke allows you to trade as though you were in the spot can Duke trade himself?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Matt E.

Virginia
msg tools
mb
Mxyzptlk wrote:
Ashcan has the rule that he starts with Duke. The app then lists Duke as one of the possessions to divvy up. Do you play that Duke starts in Ashcan's possession, or that he gets apportioned just like the axe? (Same for Flux Stabilizer)

Also, since Duke allows you to trade as though you were in the spot can Duke trade himself?


Does the character card for Pete not say he starts with Duke?

If so then Duke starts with Pete.

However in game I see no reason you couldn't trade him to another player.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
soak man
msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
You can divvy them however you want.

I don't see any reason why Duke couldn't trade himself (though it does seem odd). Don't forget that picking up dropped items is also a "trade" action, so you can have duke gather things like that as well, and since all trade actions can be performed in any order, Duke could pick up a dropped weapon and hand it off to a completely different person than Pete in the same turn, as well as swapping items.

My question is could you use duke to drop a light source (or other items) on a space within range? It seems like it. So he is very versatile and is great for handling darkness tokens for your friends as long as someone within range has a light source.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Bryce K. Nielsen
United States
Elk Ridge
Utah
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I think to use Duke to pick items up, there has to be an investigator in that space (either Pete or someone within range).

-shnar
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Anthony Harlan

Oregon
msg tools
mb
shnar wrote:
I think to use Duke to pick items up, there has to be an investigator in that space (either Pete or someone within range).

-shnar


I'm not seeing where this reading is coming from. A trade action doesn't require 2 investigators, why would a Duke Trade free action be different?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Bryce K. Nielsen
United States
Elk Ridge
Utah
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Oh, I stand corrected. I was remembering the Duke card stating something like, "You may perform a trade with another investigator within range." But, rereading the card, there is no "another investigator" requirement, just simply "within range".

-shnar
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
soak man
msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
shnar wrote:
Oh, I stand corrected. I was remembering the Duke card stating something like, "You may perform a trade with another investigator within range." But, rereading the card, there is no "another investigator" requirement, just simply "within range".

-shnar


Yeah, the card itself is worded rather strangely. I'm not even sure that I'm using the item correctly, but I'm using it more or less how I think it's intended to be used.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Peter Johnsson
Sweden
Malmö
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I've got an additional question. If you use Duke to trade, do you make an evade check for the space Pete is in, or in the target space? (If there's monsters in the spaces)

The wording on Duke is:
"At the start of your turn, you may perform a trade action as if you are in any space in range."
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
soak man
msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I read from someone else, a playtester I think, who said that Duke's item-action is a free action (as in it doesn't count as one of your two actions with Pete). If this is the case, I can easily see it not triggering an evade, but by the same token, the wording specifies that it IS a trade action (free, or not) and therefore should force an evade check.

I'm tempted to ask for specifics on how Duke works and interacts with other mechanics via the official channels on FFG's website just for a clear concise answer. I don't think I'm the only one a bit unsure about the poor mutt. And he seems to be very good, so I want to use him!
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Bryce K. Nielsen
United States
Elk Ridge
Utah
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I would say that if there is a monster in Pete's square, he would need to still do an Evade check. He's doing the action, even if it's a free action, and by the rules, if you do any action other than attack, you need to Evade. I would not make him do a check on the space that the Trade is being performed in.

Think of it this way, he's telling Duke what to do. If there's a monster, he has to evade him, get into a corner and convince Duke to run out. If there's a monster in the space that Duke is going to, that mutt is clever enough to avoid him on his own, so no evade check is needed.

-shnar
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Peter Johnsson
Sweden
Malmö
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
shnar wrote:
I would say that if there is a monster in Pete's square, he would need to still do an Evade check. He's doing the action, even if it's a free action, and by the rules, if you do any action other than attack, you need to Evade. I would not make him do a check on the space that the Trade is being performed in.

Think of it this way, he's telling Duke what to do. If there's a monster, he has to evade him, get into a corner and convince Duke to run out. If there's a monster in the space that Duke is going to, that mutt is clever enough to avoid him on his own, so no evade check is needed.

-shnar


It's just this wording that makes me hesitate:
"perform a trade action as if you are in any space in range."
Because if I'm gonna treat it like I'm in the space then I would have to do an evade test in that space as well.. Right?

But thematically your interpretation makes more sense though!
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Craig Bocketti
United States
Clifton Park
New York
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
So this sentence is from the article about the upcoming expansion of FFG site:

FFG wrote:
You can now take on the role of the altruistic drifter, "Ashcan" Pete and his trusty pup Duke, who allows you to trade with any other investigator, whether they are in range or not.


Why would it say in range or not? What am I missing?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Anthony Harlan

Oregon
msg tools
mb
mustardayonnaiz wrote:
So this sentence is from the article about the upcoming expansion of FFG site:

FFG wrote:
You can now take on the role of the altruistic drifter, "Ashcan" Pete and his trusty pup Duke, who allows you to trade with any other investigator, whether they are in range or not.


Why would it say in range or not? What am I missing?


I believe this was just sloppy wording. The normal range of the trade action is "in your space" This is using lower-case range not thinking about the fact that the game uses Range as a reserved term.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Craig Bocketti
United States
Clifton Park
New York
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Mxyzptlk wrote:
mustardayonnaiz wrote:
So this sentence is from the article about the upcoming expansion of FFG site:

FFG wrote:
You can now take on the role of the altruistic drifter, "Ashcan" Pete and his trusty pup Duke, who allows you to trade with any other investigator, whether they are in range or not.


Why would it say in range or not? What am I missing?


I believe this was just sloppy wording. The normal range of the trade action is "in your space" This is using lower-case range not thinking about the fact that the game uses Range as a reserved term.


Thanks! I think you are correct. I saw range and immediately thought 3 spaces.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Eric Stevenson

Apex
North Carolina
msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
mustardayonnaiz wrote:
Mxyzptlk wrote:
mustardayonnaiz wrote:
So this sentence is from the article about the upcoming expansion of FFG site:

FFG wrote:
You can now take on the role of the altruistic drifter, "Ashcan" Pete and his trusty pup Duke, who allows you to trade with any other investigator, whether they are in range or not.


Why would it say in range or not? What am I missing?


I believe this was just sloppy wording. The normal range of the trade action is "in your space" This is using lower-case range not thinking about the fact that the game uses Range as a reserved term.


Thanks! I think you are correct. I saw range and immediately thought 3 spaces.


IF you look -here-


It says:
You can now take on the role of the altruistic drifter, "Ashcan" Pete and his trusty pup Duke, who enables you to trade with other investigators and pick up items up to three unobstructed spaces away at the beginning of your turn.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Eric Stevenson

Apex
North Carolina
msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Ashcan Pete's character card says HE starts with Duke...not other players. So I dont think Duke is an item you can divvy up.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Craig Bocketti
United States
Clifton Park
New York
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
DoctorBox wrote:
mustardayonnaiz wrote:
Mxyzptlk wrote:
mustardayonnaiz wrote:
So this sentence is from the article about the upcoming expansion of FFG site:

FFG wrote:
You can now take on the role of the altruistic drifter, "Ashcan" Pete and his trusty pup Duke, who allows you to trade with any other investigator, whether they are in range or not.


Why would it say in range or not? What am I missing?


I believe this was just sloppy wording. The normal range of the trade action is "in your space" This is using lower-case range not thinking about the fact that the game uses Range as a reserved term.


Thanks! I think you are correct. I saw range and immediately thought 3 spaces.


IF you look -here-


It says:
You can now take on the role of the altruistic drifter, "Ashcan" Pete and his trusty pup Duke, who enables you to trade with other investigators and pick up items up to three unobstructed spaces away at the beginning of your turn.


Interesting they must have edited the article. I quoted exactly what was written before.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Eric Stevenson

Apex
North Carolina
msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
I bet you are right as I copied your phrase exactly, added it to Google and that is what came up.

Had this all come up in a game we played last weekend.
We actually interpreted the card to say that I could trade ANYWHERE on the board as if the person was in range...and used it to win a scenario we had lost twice before. ARGH
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jorgen Peddersen
Australia
Sydney
New South Wales
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
The designers don't write the articles most of the time, so it's understandable that human error will cause mistakes some of the time. It's good that FFG goes back to correct the errors when they are discovered, though.

Perhaps the writer of the article made the same comprehension mistake as you DoctorBox, and didn't realise that 'range' is a very well specified game term. I can see how you are reading the sentence now.

Incidentally, on a totally different point, while it is really unclear whether you can give duke to another player at the start of the game (there is no rule saying you can't), it is possible for other investigators to have Duke throughout the game. Duke can be traded like any other item. He can even be traded via his own free action!

 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Eric Stevenson

Apex
North Carolina
msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
We knew the rules about range, but the wording on Duke's card is a bit off. So, several people in our group, with 3+ plays, though the same thing.

I will have to look back, but it reads something like, "trade with other characters AS IF they are in range"
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jorgen Peddersen
Australia
Sydney
New South Wales
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
The wording is:

Duke wrote:
At the start of your turn, you may perform a trade action as if you are in any space within range.


Yes, this has two ways to read it:

1) Perform a trade action as if you are in a space within range of you.
2) Perform a trade action in any space as if you were within range for a trade action.

You were assuming the second interpretation, I believe. However, note that trade actions do not use range. They only happen within your space usually. Why would it be important to trade as if they are within range when you can't trade with people outside your space? It could just have been written as 'you may perform a trade action as if you are in any space' to achieve the same thing.

I guess your group didn't make this connection that 'trade as if you are within range of each other' meaning makes no sense when you look at the Range and Trade Action entries in the RRG. The wording could certainly be improved, but the alternate interpretation is certainly invalidated by the rules.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.