$20.00
$60.00
Recommend
2 
 Thumb up
 Hide
11 Posts

Falling Sky: The Gallic Revolt Against Caesar» Forums » Rules

Subject: NP Shifting Loyalties rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Mark Evans
United States
Berlin
New Hampshire
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
The event allows you to remove a capability. The Aedui NP instructions say to select a shaded capability affecting a Gaul player, then with Aedui symbol first on the card.

'Then' confuses me. Does it mean 'within that' select Aedui symbol first on card OR does it mean 'if none, then' select any card with the Aedui symbol first on the card?

I am wondering if the Aedui would remove one of their own capabilities?
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Shonai Dweller
Japan
flag msg tools
Shaded Aedui first card capabilities are all (I think) directly bad for Aedui. So, yeah, they'd be removing negative capabilities from themselves.

-- edit
Which would mean (as far as I can tell) no Gallic faction except Aedui would be holding an Aedui First shaded capability and therefore the logical sequence would be:
1) Remove capability from other gallic faction
2) If none, remove negative (Aedui first) capability from self.

 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Niko
Canada
Calgary
Alberta
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Shonai_Dweller wrote:
Shaded Aedui first card capabilities are all (I think) directly bad for Aedui. So, yeah, they'd be removing negative capabilities from themselves.

-- edit
Which would mean (as far as I can tell) no Gallic faction except Aedui would be holding an Aedui First shaded capability and therefore the logical sequence would be:
1) Remove capability from other gallic faction
2) If none, remove negative (Aedui first) capability from self.

I thought the instructions where that Aedui take unshaded capabilities unless specified in particular event instructions?
If they are specified to take the shaded capabilities I'd assume that those are good for them.

I don't think they would ever remove one from themselves, but only because I don't see a way that they would get one they would want to remove.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Oerjan Ariander
Sweden
HUDDINGE
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmb
Other Factions can play shaded Aedui Capabilities on the Aedui.

/Oerjan
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Shonai Dweller
Japan
flag msg tools
Rule 5.3:
Quote:
Events marked “CAPABILITY” have lasting effects that either help or hurt one or more Factions. When executing such text, put the card near the most affected player

And I've checked the playbook now, all the Aedui First shaded capabilities are ones you would play against the Aedui (except maybe Diviciacus which you might place equally on the Romans for the same effect - the Aedui bot could remove it from the Romans too with this card anyhow).
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mark Evans
United States
Berlin
New Hampshire
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
It sounds like 'then' in this case means 'within that'
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Shonai Dweller
Japan
flag msg tools
drmark64 wrote:
It sounds like 'then' in this case means 'within that'

There is no 'within that'. No gallic faction besdes the Aedui will ever have a shaded capability from an Aedui First card. They're all negative capabilities to play against the Aedui. Just read the playbook if you don't believe me. 'then' means 'then' in this case.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Oerjan Ariander
Sweden
HUDDINGE
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmb
Shonai, the problem is that the current Event instruction makes NP Aedui remove any Aedui-first Capability, including an unshaded/beneficial one, if there is no player Gaul Faction with a shaded Capability in play.

The standard usage of "then" in the COIN games is "after you've run out of options in the previous selection, start a new selection with this condition: ..."; it doesn't modify the previous selection. IOW, the instruction
Quote:
Shifting Loyalties – Select a shaded Capability affecting a player Gaul, then with Aedui symbol 1st on the card.
is parsed:
1) If possible, remove a shaded Capability from a Gaul player Faction (but not from an NP Faction).
2) If no Gaul player Faction had any shaded Capability in play, instead remove an Aedui-first one (from any Faction who happens to have one in play).

If the intent was to remove only shaded Capabilities, the correct way to phrase the instruction would be:
Quote:
Shifting Loyalties – Select a shaded Capability, first one affecting a player Gaul Faction, then one with Aedui symbol 1st on the card.

Regards,
Oerjan
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mark Evans
United States
Berlin
New Hampshire
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
I think you summarized my confusion Oerjan. Thanks.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Volko Ruhnke
United States
Virginia
flag msg tools
designer
mbmbmbmbmb
NP Aedui on Shifting Loyalties remove only Shaded Capabilities. If there are any affecting player Gauls, they select one of those Capabilities at random. If not, they select a shaded Capability with Aedui symbol 1st, wherever such a Capability is, at random.

(So the "then" is not a "within that", because NP Aedui may end up picking a Capability affecting a Non-player Gaul, most likely itself, after failing to find a shaded Capability affecting a player Gaul.)

We certainly don't want the NP Aedui removing its own unshaded Capability!

The parsing is:

Quote:
Select a shaded Capability affecting a player Gaul, then [select a shaded Capability] with Aedui symbol 1st on the card.

The phrase "then with" refers back to an earlier part of the sentence and cannot be syntactically completed without the word "shaded", because the "with" unambiguously modifies "Capability", which is in turn already modified by "a shaded". I say "unambiguously" in the hope that no reasonable reader would suspect that "with Aedui symbol" modifies "a player Gaul".

Cheers! Volko
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mark Evans
United States
Berlin
New Hampshire
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Thanks for clearing that up.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.