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Subject: police shoot unarmed deaf mute man suspected of speeding. rss

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Mac Mcleod
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A North Carolina man was killed by police during a traffic stop for speeding. Cenk Uygur and Ana Kasparian, hosts of The Young Turks, break it down.

“This is as bad as it gets.

A North Carolina state trooper shot and killed 29-year-old Daniel Harris — who was not only unarmed, but deaf — just feet from his home, over a speeding violation. According to early reports from neighbors who witnessed the shooting this past Thursday night, Harris was shot and killed "almost immediately" after exiting his vehicle.

He appeared to be trying to communicate with the officer via sign language.

"They should've de-escalated and been trained to realize that this is an entirely different situation," neighbor Mark Barringer said. "You're pulling someone over who is deaf, they are handicapped. To me, what happened is totally unacceptable."

Read more here: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/natio...



***


Young Turk (n), 1. Young progressive or insurgent member of an institution, movement, or political party. 2. Young person who rebels against authority or societal expectations. (American Heritage Dictionary)



http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/king-n-police-kill-...


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Trey Chambers
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Nothing will change until we start sending these cops to prison.
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Isaac Citrom
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Shampoo4you wrote:

Nothing will change until we start sending these cops to prison.


Right, because this police office is bigoted against the deaf, even when he doesn't know they're deaf.

Let's wait for the video. Having said that, I'm willing to guess that the officer kept yelling at him to get back into his car but the young man kept approaching the police officer. I agree, I'm just speculating at this point.

Traffic stops are very dangerous to the police. Officers are executed regularly.

Why did this man exit his vehicle? Why did he not stop for over 7 miles? How do you drive and not look into a mirror for over 7 miles?

In addition to specialized police training, I see a place for better training for the deaf. I thought driving while deaf was illegal. Even so, I would hesitate at denying the deaf the mobility and quality of life that driving offers. But, they likely need specialized training themselves. Use your mirrors constantly (which you're supposed to do anyway), never leave the vehicle when stopped by the police, have an explanatory card ready, have a deaf driver identification sticker in the window or on the license plate. But, all that doesn't fit the narrative of the evil cop who woke up just hankering to execute a deaf man.

I applaud the family's attitude. This is certainly a tragedy.

And, what are the rules for using a taser?
.
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Mac Mcleod
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isaacc wrote:
Shampoo4you wrote:

Nothing will change until we start sending these cops to prison.


Right, because this police office is bigoted against the deaf, even when he doesn't know they're deaf.

Let's wait for the video. Having said that, I'm willing to guess that the officer kept yelling at him to get back into his car but the young man kept approaching the police officer. I agree, I'm just speculating at this point.

Traffic stops are very dangerous to the police. Officers are executed regularly.

Why did this man exit his vehicle? Why did he not stop for over 7 miles? How do you drive and not look into a mirror for over 7 miles?

In addition to specialized police training, I see a place for better training for the deaf. I thought driving while deaf was illegal. Even so, I would hesitate at denying the deaf the mobility and quality of life that driving offers. But, they likely need specialized training themselves. Use your mirrors constantly (which you're supposed to do anyway), never leave the vehicle when stopped by the police, have an explanatory card ready, have a deaf driver identification sticker in the window or on the license plate. But, all that doesn't fit the narrative of the evil cop who woke up just hankering to execute a deaf man.

I applaud the family's attitude. This is certainly a tragedy.

And, what are the rules for using a taser?
.


NOT in other countries.

We train our cops to escalate and execute.
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Walking on eggshells is not my style
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Link doesn't work

Now it does. Disregard
 
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Isaac Citrom
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maxo-texas wrote:
isaacc wrote:
Shampoo4you wrote:

Nothing will change until we start sending these cops to prison.


Right, because this police office is bigoted against the deaf, even when he doesn't know they're deaf.

Let's wait for the video. Having said that, I'm willing to guess that the officer kept yelling at him to get back into his car but the young man kept approaching the police officer. I agree, I'm just speculating at this point.

Traffic stops are very dangerous to the police. Officers are executed regularly.

Why did this man exit his vehicle? Why did he not stop for over 7 miles? How do you drive and not look into a mirror for over 7 miles?

In addition to specialized police training, I see a place for better training for the deaf. I thought driving while deaf was illegal. Even so, I would hesitate at denying the deaf the mobility and quality of life that driving offers. But, they likely need specialized training themselves. Use your mirrors constantly (which you're supposed to do anyway), never leave the vehicle when stopped by the police, have an explanatory card ready, have a deaf driver identification sticker in the window or on the license plate. But, all that doesn't fit the narrative of the evil cop who woke up just hankering to execute a deaf man.

I applaud the family's attitude. This is certainly a tragedy.

And, what are the rules for using a taser?
.


NOT in other countries.

We train our cops to escalate and execute.


In other countries the authority of the police is respected and they are not executed on a regular basis.
.
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Walking on eggshells is not my style
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Interesting.

History of resisting arrest. Police bumped his car to get his attention. Lost a tire. Finished driving home on the rim.

Be interesting to see where this goes.
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Josh
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isaacc wrote:
maxo-texas wrote:
isaacc wrote:
Shampoo4you wrote:

Nothing will change until we start sending these cops to prison.


Right, because this police office is bigoted against the deaf, even when he doesn't know they're deaf.

Let's wait for the video. Having said that, I'm willing to guess that the officer kept yelling at him to get back into his car but the young man kept approaching the police officer. I agree, I'm just speculating at this point.

Traffic stops are very dangerous to the police. Officers are executed regularly.

Why did this man exit his vehicle? Why did he not stop for over 7 miles? How do you drive and not look into a mirror for over 7 miles?

In addition to specialized police training, I see a place for better training for the deaf. I thought driving while deaf was illegal. Even so, I would hesitate at denying the deaf the mobility and quality of life that driving offers. But, they likely need specialized training themselves. Use your mirrors constantly (which you're supposed to do anyway), never leave the vehicle when stopped by the police, have an explanatory card ready, have a deaf driver identification sticker in the window or on the license plate. But, all that doesn't fit the narrative of the evil cop who woke up just hankering to execute a deaf man.

I applaud the family's attitude. This is certainly a tragedy.

And, what are the rules for using a taser?
.


NOT in other countries.

We train our cops to escalate and execute.


In other countries the authority of the police is respected and they are not executed on a regular basis.
.


Seriously isaac, off topic, when did you become a meme? I don't remember seeing you around much for a while and now you come back and sound very different than I remember. I grant I didn't encounter you a great deal, but I retain the impeession of more critical thinking and depth of analysis from you.
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Shadrach wrote:
isaacc wrote:
maxo-texas wrote:
isaacc wrote:
Shampoo4you wrote:

Nothing will change until we start sending these cops to prison.


Right, because this police office is bigoted against the deaf, even when he doesn't know they're deaf.

Let's wait for the video. Having said that, I'm willing to guess that the officer kept yelling at him to get back into his car but the young man kept approaching the police officer. I agree, I'm just speculating at this point.

Traffic stops are very dangerous to the police. Officers are executed regularly.

Why did this man exit his vehicle? Why did he not stop for over 7 miles? How do you drive and not look into a mirror for over 7 miles?

In addition to specialized police training, I see a place for better training for the deaf. I thought driving while deaf was illegal. Even so, I would hesitate at denying the deaf the mobility and quality of life that driving offers. But, they likely need specialized training themselves. Use your mirrors constantly (which you're supposed to do anyway), never leave the vehicle when stopped by the police, have an explanatory card ready, have a deaf driver identification sticker in the window or on the license plate. But, all that doesn't fit the narrative of the evil cop who woke up just hankering to execute a deaf man.

I applaud the family's attitude. This is certainly a tragedy.

And, what are the rules for using a taser?
.


NOT in other countries.

We train our cops to escalate and execute.


In other countries the authority of the police is respected and they are not executed on a regular basis.
.


Seriously isaac, off topic, when did you become a meme? I don't remember seeing you around much for a while and now you come back and sound very different than I remember. I grant I didn't encounter you a great deal, but I retain the impeession of more critical thinking and deoth of analysis from you.


Google claims that:
Quote:
According to FBI Law Enforcement Officers Killed and Assaulted reports, 62 officers were killed during traffic stops from 2003 to 2012. That does not include 34 others who died during and after vehicle pursuits.

So that's around 10/year. There were over 12,000 traffic stops in 2014 in ONE COUNTY. Let's assume that's representative. There are over 3,000 counties in the U.S., for a total estimated number of traffic stops (by local police only, we'll just ignore state and federal law enforcement) of 36,000,000. So a cop who makes a traffic stop has less than a one three-millionth chance of being killed there.

Regular?

Let's also point out that it's roughly ten times as likely to result in the death of someone OTHER than an officer. So if the question is whether the police are reacting to threats in a way which balances their safety against the safety of others in a reasonable way, that seems to me like reason to think they aren't. Obviously, every police officer killed doing their duty is a tragedy. But the view that losing even one this way is unacceptable is what leads us to many more people dying.
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David Dearlove
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Another casualty of the right to bear arms.
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J J
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isaacc wrote:
In other countries the authority of the police is respected and they are not executed on a regular basis.
.


Because:

A) they don't routinely murder people
B) they don't see the general populace as the enemy (and vice versa)
C) they aren't there to control and shape society, nor are they political or militarised
D) they get actual (years of) training, and are required to undergo continual training, just like many other professionals

and plenty more, but that should be a nice starting point for where your society and your police have gone so very wrong.

Also - authority? Don't make me laugh. Australians have no respect for "authority". That's not why the general population and the police have a decent relationship here.
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Isaac Citrom
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rinelk wrote:
...

So that's around 10/year. There were over 12,000 traffic stops in 2014 in ONE COUNTY. Let's assume that's representative. There are over 3,000 counties in the U.S., for a total estimated number of traffic stops (by local police only, we'll just ignore state and federal law enforcement) of 36,000,000. So a cop who makes a traffic stop has less than a one three-millionth chance of being killed there.

Regular?

Let's also point out that it's roughly ten times as likely to result in the death of someone OTHER than an officer. So if the question is whether the police are reacting to threats in a way which balances their safety against the safety of others in a reasonable way, that seems to me like reason to think they aren't. Obviously, every police officer killed doing their duty is a tragedy. But the view that losing even one this way is unacceptable is what leads us to many more people dying.


It really doesn't matter because stats don't count for you guys. By that I mean, (a) of course there are a lot more non-police being shot at; that's why police carry guns; they shoot at criminals. You just wipe that concept away as "other than an officer". Now, if after having dealt with that huge number, you're still finding that there are too many cases of accidental or incorrect shootings, I think that's a fair and important question.

And (b), with respect to statistics, no matter how you slice it, the Left will simply not accept that Blacks are superrepresented in the figures because of their wildly (3 times their representation in the population) high representation in violent crime statistics. If that simply doesn't count, then we're at an impasse because those figures certainly count in my thinking. For example, BLM wants the cessation of policing. That's just as ridiculous as the call for killing cops.
.
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Boaty McBoatface
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isaacc wrote:
Shampoo4you wrote:

Nothing will change until we start sending these cops to prison.


Right, because this police office is bigoted against the deaf, even when he doesn't know they're deaf.

Let's wait for the video. Having said that, I'm willing to guess that the officer kept yelling at him to get back into his car but the young man kept approaching the police officer. I agree, I'm just speculating at this point.

Traffic stops are very dangerous to the police. Officers are executed regularly.

Why did this man exit his vehicle? Why did he not stop for over 7 miles? How do you drive and not look into a mirror for over 7 miles?

In addition to specialized police training, I see a place for better training for the deaf. I thought driving while deaf was illegal. Even so, I would hesitate at denying the deaf the mobility and quality of life that driving offers. But, they likely need specialized training themselves. Use your mirrors constantly (which you're supposed to do anyway), never leave the vehicle when stopped by the police, have an explanatory card ready, have a deaf driver identification sticker in the window or on the license plate. But, all that doesn't fit the narrative of the evil cop who woke up just hankering to execute a deaf man.

I applaud the family's attitude. This is certainly a tragedy.

And, what are the rules for using a taser?
.
I have some sympathy with this, until we know we cannot say this was anything less then a tragic accident.
 
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isaacc wrote:
rinelk wrote:
...

So that's around 10/year. There were over 12,000 traffic stops in 2014 in ONE COUNTY. Let's assume that's representative. There are over 3,000 counties in the U.S., for a total estimated number of traffic stops (by local police only, we'll just ignore state and federal law enforcement) of 36,000,000. So a cop who makes a traffic stop has less than a one three-millionth chance of being killed there.

Regular?

Let's also point out that it's roughly ten times as likely to result in the death of someone OTHER than an officer. So if the question is whether the police are reacting to threats in a way which balances their safety against the safety of others in a reasonable way, that seems to me like reason to think they aren't. Obviously, every police officer killed doing their duty is a tragedy. But the view that losing even one this way is unacceptable is what leads us to many more people dying.


It really doesn't matter because stats don't count for you guys. By that I mean, (a) of course there are a lot more non-police being shot at; that's why police carry guns; they shoot at criminals. You just wipe that concept away as "other than an officer". Now, if after having dealt with that huge number, you're still finding that there are too many cases of accidental or incorrect shootings, I think that's a fair and important question.

And (b), with respect to statistics, no matter how you slice it, the Left will simply not accept that Blacks are superrepresented in the figures because of their wildly (3 times their representation in the population) high representation in violent crime statistics. If that simply doesn't count, then we're at an impasse because those figures certainly count in my thinking. For example, BLM wants the cessation of policing. That's just as ridiculous as the call for killing cops.
.

You probably should have just admitted you got the numbers wrong...
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Steven Woodcock
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DavidDearlove wrote:
Another casualty of the right to bear arms.



How so? The officer is precisely the type of individual even most anti-gunner types say should have a firearm -- a trained member of the government (in this case the police).


Ferret
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Ferretman wrote:
DavidDearlove wrote:
Another casualty of the right to bear arms.



How so? The officer is precisely the type of individual even most anti-gunner types say should have a firearm -- a trained member of the government (in this case the police).


Ferret
I think the point is the cop has to assume he is dealing with someone who is armed, and thus has to assume his life may be in danger from someone who may be about the resist arrest.
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Ferretman wrote:
DavidDearlove wrote:
Another casualty of the right to bear arms.



How so? The officer is precisely the type of individual even most anti-gunner types say should have a firearm -- a trained member of the government (in this case the police).


Ferret


A trained comoetent police officer yes, apparently this human being, no.

I do agree with you the previous post was a bit trite and soundbite-y though.
 
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Shadrach wrote:
Ferretman wrote:
DavidDearlove wrote:
Another casualty of the right to bear arms.



How so? The officer is precisely the type of individual even most anti-gunner types say should have a firearm -- a trained member of the government (in this case the police).


Ferret


A trained comoetent police officer yes, apparently this human being, no.


I don't know anything about this particular officer's training -- if you do please share!


Shadrach wrote:

I do agree with you the previous post was a bit trite and soundbite-y though.


Concur, and thank you for seeing that.



Ferret
 
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slatersteven wrote:
Ferretman wrote:
DavidDearlove wrote:
Another casualty of the right to bear arms.



How so? The officer is precisely the type of individual even most anti-gunner types say should have a firearm -- a trained member of the government (in this case the police).


Ferret
I think the point is the cop has to assume he is dealing with someone who is armed, and thus has to assume his life may be in danger from someone who may be about the resist arrest.


I agree that was likely the situation; that doesn't strike me as what Dearlove seemed to be saying.



Ferret
 
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Boaty McBoatface
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Ferretman wrote:
slatersteven wrote:
Ferretman wrote:
DavidDearlove wrote:
Another casualty of the right to bear arms.



How so? The officer is precisely the type of individual even most anti-gunner types say should have a firearm -- a trained member of the government (in this case the police).


Ferret
I think the point is the cop has to assume he is dealing with someone who is armed, and thus has to assume his life may be in danger from someone who may be about the resist arrest.


I agree that was likely the situation; that doesn't strike me as what Dearlove seemed to be saying.



Ferret
It's exactly how I read it.
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Ferretman wrote:
Shadrach wrote:
Ferretman wrote:
DavidDearlove wrote:
Another casualty of the right to bear arms.



How so? The officer is precisely the type of individual even most anti-gunner types say should have a firearm -- a trained member of the government (in this case the police).


Ferret


A trained comoetent police officer yes, apparently this human being, no.


I don't know anything about this particular officer's training -- if you do please share!


Shadrach wrote:

I do agree with you the previous post was a bit trite and soundbite-y though.


Concur, and thank you for seeing that.



Ferret


Particular officer, no. But I do know officer training is woefully short, I started it once before I got another job, I don't think I would have made a good cop at the time, the mental headspace and attitude requirements (to be good, not to pass training) are narrow. I would do better now if I were to go bwck to it, but I'm good where I am.

I also know that officers who are bad enough to be fired ('resign') can move and get a job in a new district without much trouble. In fwct they tend to be a big part of the problem.
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Oliver Dienz
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JasonJ0 wrote:
isaacc wrote:
In other countries the authority of the police is respected and they are not executed on a regular basis.
.


Because:

A) they don't routinely murder people
B) they don't see the general populace as the enemy (and vice versa)
C) they aren't there to control and shape society, nor are they political or militarised
D) they get actual (years of) training, and are required to undergo continual training, just like many other professionals

and plenty more, but that should be a nice starting point for where your society and your police have gone so very wrong.

Also - authority? Don't make me laugh. Australians have no respect for "authority". That's not why the general population and the police have a decent relationship here.


In several European countries that I know you also simply get your speeding ticket by mail. Actually, police there is usually busy handling actual crimes than controlling traffic. In 10 years driving in Germany I have seen two traffic stops; both late at night to get drunks off the streets.
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Boaty McBoatface
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odie73 wrote:
JasonJ0 wrote:
isaacc wrote:
In other countries the authority of the police is respected and they are not executed on a regular basis.
.


Because:

A) they don't routinely murder people
B) they don't see the general populace as the enemy (and vice versa)
C) they aren't there to control and shape society, nor are they political or militarised
D) they get actual (years of) training, and are required to undergo continual training, just like many other professionals

and plenty more, but that should be a nice starting point for where your society and your police have gone so very wrong.

Also - authority? Don't make me laugh. Australians have no respect for "authority". That's not why the general population and the police have a decent relationship here.


In several European countries that I know you also simply get your speeding ticket by mail. Actually, police there is usually busy handling actual crimes than controlling traffic. In 10 years driving in Germany I have seen two traffic stops; both late at night to get drunks off the streets.
We also tend to have police forces larger then one village.
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Kelsey Rinella
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isaacc wrote:
rinelk wrote:
...

So that's around 10/year. There were over 12,000 traffic stops in 2014 in ONE COUNTY. Let's assume that's representative. There are over 3,000 counties in the U.S., for a total estimated number of traffic stops (by local police only, we'll just ignore state and federal law enforcement) of 36,000,000. So a cop who makes a traffic stop has less than a one three-millionth chance of being killed there.

Regular?

Let's also point out that it's roughly ten times as likely to result in the death of someone OTHER than an officer. So if the question is whether the police are reacting to threats in a way which balances their safety against the safety of others in a reasonable way, that seems to me like reason to think they aren't. Obviously, every police officer killed doing their duty is a tragedy. But the view that losing even one this way is unacceptable is what leads us to many more people dying.


It really doesn't matter because stats don't count for you guys. By that I mean, (a) of course there are a lot more non-police being shot at; that's why police carry guns; they shoot at criminals. You just wipe that concept away as "other than an officer". Now, if after having dealt with that huge number, you're still finding that there are too many cases of accidental or incorrect shootings, I think that's a fair and important question.


Do I interpret you correctly to be admitting that police are killed during traffic stops extremely rarely?

I have no idea where you're coming from with the accusation that stats don't matter to us guys. They've changed my mind about lots of issues, and I actually went looking for statistics to determine whether your assertion was true (which it seems you never have). But you're right that interpreting statistics is theory-laden; bias can creep in that way. So even if all of my statistics and inferences from them about rates are correct, my interpretation that police should ease off on the perception of threat might be wrong. That's part of why I'm presenting that chain of reasoning to you; you seem like a person with different biases from mine, who might be able to check my work.
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Christopher Yaure
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rinelk wrote:
isaacc wrote:
rinelk wrote:
...

So that's around 10/year. There were over 12,000 traffic stops in 2014 in ONE COUNTY. Let's assume that's representative. There are over 3,000 counties in the U.S., for a total estimated number of traffic stops (by local police only, we'll just ignore state and federal law enforcement) of 36,000,000. So a cop who makes a traffic stop has less than a one three-millionth chance of being killed there.

Regular?

Let's also point out that it's roughly ten times as likely to result in the death of someone OTHER than an officer. So if the question is whether the police are reacting to threats in a way which balances their safety against the safety of others in a reasonable way, that seems to me like reason to think they aren't. Obviously, every police officer killed doing their duty is a tragedy. But the view that losing even one this way is unacceptable is what leads us to many more people dying.


It really doesn't matter because stats don't count for you guys. By that I mean, (a) of course there are a lot more non-police being shot at; that's why police carry guns; they shoot at criminals. You just wipe that concept away as "other than an officer". Now, if after having dealt with that huge number, you're still finding that there are too many cases of accidental or incorrect shootings, I think that's a fair and important question.


Do I interpret you correctly to be admitting that police are killed during traffic stops extremely rarely?

I have no idea where you're coming from with the accusation that stats don't matter to us guys. They've changed my mind about lots of issues, and I actually went looking for statistics to determine whether your assertion was true (which it seems you never have). But you're right that interpreting statistics is theory-laden; bias can creep in that way. So even if all of my statistics and inferences from them about rates are correct, my interpretation that police should ease off on the perception of threat might be wrong. That's part of why I'm presenting that chain of reasoning to you; you seem like a person with different biases from mine, who might be able to check my work.


What he means is his favorite statistic about the higher rate of violent crimes by African-Americans hasn't convinced all who encounter it that it explains every bad thing that happens in the US.
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