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Cosmic Encounter: Cosmic Eons» Forums » News

Subject: Four Eon aliens previewed - Oligarch, Evil Twin, Coward, and Sheriff! rss

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Jason Emme
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Oligarch
https://www.facebook.com/cosmicencounter/posts/1080644618639...



Evil Twin
https://www.facebook.com/cosmicencounter/posts/1080640641973...



Coward
https://www.facebook.com/cosmicencounter/posts/1075952505775...



Sheriff
https://www.facebook.com/cosmicencounter/posts/1072013472836...

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Sean Franco
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Only the Coward impresses me here, and that's just relative to the other three.
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Jack Reda
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I enjoyed playing with Oligarch and Sheriff quite a bit. Coward is a good concept that is long overdue. Evil Twin I am all right with. It's just nasty, but I like having some nasty, mean aliens in the set.
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Simon Agner Holm
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I quite like these, but I think that the Oligarch is an odd alien to preview. Without seeing it's essence cards we have no idea of what it actually does...
Quote:
gets richer as others get poorer
hmmm
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Chris O
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Evil Twin completely breaks the game.

What happens if I am Evil Twin and I use a one-shot super powerful flare? I get to keep it forever and somehow the Good Twin has to discard it?

That's just ONE massive issue I see with this badly written alien...

Coward is the best alien I have seen of these previews so far.
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James Searles
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Messianic wrote:
Evil Twin completely breaks the game.

What happens if I am Evil Twin and I use a one-shot super powerful flare? I get to keep it forever and somehow the Good Twin has to discard it?


What? Discarding a card as part of its effect is not a "loss or penalty". I don't even see how that could be interpreted that way unless your really trying to be a jerk.
 
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Just a Bill
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No, I said "oh, brother," not "go hover."
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Chris is not trying to be a jerk; he is trying to interpret the game text. (I thought about saying "I don't even see how you could think that way unless you're really trying to be a jerk," but of course that's just way too easy, so I won't.)

And as it turns out, Chris is correct. Discarding a flare after use does seem like a card loss; it is a "card from your hand which [is] supposed to be discarded"; and Peter Olotka has said that it was intended that Evil Twin can use one-shot flares repeatedly.
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Simon Agner Holm
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Wait what!?!? wow
That doesn't make any sense to me... Does that mean that Evil Twin gets to keep every card that is normally discarded after use, even if he/she voluntarily plays it in a normal fashion. So Evil Twin keeps it's played Encounter card, reinforcements, artifacts, kickers and flares (unless given to another player).... and loses no ships, plus forces good twin to lose all those cards instead!?
That seems like 4 alien powers in one.
Are you sure it is not just all cards that is discarded against your will due to the actions of others players?
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Jefferson Krogh
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Evil Twin is really annoying and will be a magnet for Cosmic Zaps. I'm glad it's main player only.

It's a lot of fun watching the non-main players beg and wheedle their way out of being the good twin, though.

I expect many groups will interpret Evil Twin's language in other ways than Peter Olotka intended, too.
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Jack Reda
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Card loss is cards from your hand. Encounter cards, artifacts, reinforcements... these are all played, then discarded. I would argue that one-shot flares are also discarded by Evil Twin, because they are played out of hand, and instead of returning to the hand, are discarded.
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Just a Bill
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No, I said "oh, brother," not "go hover."
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The Warp wrote:
I would argue that one-shot flares are also discarded by Evil Twin, because they are played out of hand, and instead of returning to the hand, are discarded.

I would have argued that, too. However, the design intent stated by the designer is that the flare is kept.

Agner wrote:
Does that mean that Evil Twin gets to keep every card that is normally discarded after use, even if he/she voluntarily plays it in a normal fashion. So Evil Twin keeps it's played Encounter card, reinforcements, artifacts, kickers ... plus forces good twin to lose all those cards instead!?

That would be the logical conclusion of the flare ruling. Sounds ridiculous to some of us, yes, but these aliens are supposed to be outrageous, not balanced. My understanding is that one of the design goals of this expansion set is to make the Cosmos a more dangerous place and to challenge players to see if they can figure out how to deal with new, big-time adversities.
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Jack Reda
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I think Evil Twin will be plenty dangerous. I understand the design intent, but I don't agree that it overrules how flares work. If Evil Twin was supposed to also avoid losing flares, the power would need to be clear on that. It simply states "cards from your hand", and flares played don't re-enter the hand until after their effects are resolved. One-shot flares never re-enter the hand, so they are not included in Evil Twin's immunity from card loss.
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Just a Bill
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No, I said "oh, brother," not "go hover."
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The Warp wrote:
I understand the design intent, but I don't agree that it overrules how flares work.

You don't agree with me that the designers want this to overrule how flares work, or you don't agree with the designers that that's what the design intent should have been?

Either way, that seems like a point of discussion for them, not me. I'm just reporting what I understand the intent to be, not defending it.
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Jack Reda
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I understand that. But I don't think design intent really enters into it unless trying to resolve an ambiguity. There is no ambiguity. A card played is no longer in hand, and a one-shot flare never re-enters the hand.
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Just a Bill
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No, I said "oh, brother," not "go hover."
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Of course there's an ambiguity: Chris and James interpreted the text in opposite ways, and reasonably so. Evil Twin doesn't say it protects cards in your hand, it says it protects cards from your hand. There's a legitimate connotational difference there, which some will pick up on and others will ignore.

As a parallel example, a card in the reward deck is not the same thing as a card from the reward deck. "In" emphasizes an object's current position, while "from" emphasizes its source. I'm actually not interested in nitpicking these words; I'm just supporting my position that there are indeed some ambiguities in this text.

When players ask FFG this question, they're going to answer that Evil Twin gets to keep his one-shot flares. Whether we like that interpretation or not, it is the official position (unless there's been a change I don't know about, which is certainly possible).
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Jack Reda
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Any played card was in your hand. So is the design intent that Evil Twin doesn't discard played encounter cards and reinforcements, artifacts, kickers, rifts, etc?

Anyway, what official position has been announced? I haven't seen it. I do remember playtesting this alien, and as I recall, Evil Twin discarded every card he played.
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Just a Bill
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No, I said "oh, brother," not "go hover."
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The Warp wrote:
So is the design intent that Evil Twin doesn't discard played encounter cards and reinforcements, artifacts, kickers, rifts, etc?

As to the intent on non-flares, I don't know. The question was only asked and answered for one-shot flares that should be discarded after use.

The Warp wrote:
Anyway, what official position has been announced? I haven't seen it.

Most of the people who could answer that probably will not do so out of respect for their NDAs. I am not under that restriction, and that's why I chimed in to try to resolve the dispute and defend the legitimacy of Chris' viewpoint. Suffice it to say that a player asked this specific question and FFG responded that the designers' intent was as I have stated. I don't believe their answer has been published in a wider context (until today it had not yet come up in a wider context).

Hopefully that's a good enough explanation, but if not then of course anyone is free to ignore me. After all, I could be mistaken, lying, clinically insane, demon-possessed.... I'd like to be mistaken, since I don't personally care for the ruling. Anyway, do with the information what you will. No harm, no foul. Sooner or later an official answer will probably become available.

Maybe somebody should just ask this again of FFG customer support and/or on the CE facebook page, to see if my understanding is still correct or out of date.
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Jefferson Krogh
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The Warp wrote:
Any played card was in your hand. So is the design intent that Evil Twin doesn't discard played encounter cards and reinforcements, artifacts, kickers, rifts, etc?

Anyway, what official position has been announced? I haven't seen it. I do remember playtesting this alien, and as I recall, Evil Twin discarded every card he played.


Same here, but we didn't see or test the final final versions.

If the Evil Twin doesn't discard those played cards, then I guess the good twin discards instead. Does the good twin discard a random card in this case? A card of his choice that matches the same type? The alien sheet doesn't address that at all, unfortunately. If that is the intent, though, volunteering to be the good twin just to get cards out of one's hand might be a rational option.

The good twin will have much incentive to help Evil Twin win its encounters. If you prevent Evil Twin from losing anything, then you don't lose anything either. If you get the benefit of ditching bad cards as well, that's a nice bonus (but I would have suggesting writing the power to suit, instead of the text I see now).
 
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STB
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What exactly is an essence card penalty? Specifically, how would I tell which ones are penalties?
 
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Jefferson Krogh
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SpaghettiToastBook wrote:
What exactly is an essence card penalty? Specifically, how would I tell which ones are penalties?


Any essence card (that's the name for the little cards that go with some aliens in this expansion, such as Nanny) that hurts another player can be thought of as a penalty. They vary a lot by alien and card. You'll know them when you see them.
 
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Kyle Glyn
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Kobold Curry Chef wrote:


Any essence card (that's the name for the little cards that go with some aliens in this expansion, such as Nanny) that hurts another player can be thought of as a penalty. They vary a lot by alien and card. You'll know them when you see them.


Are they actually little? Smaller than all other cards in the game?
 
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Sean Franco
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kyleglyn wrote:
Kobold Curry Chef wrote:


Any essence card (that's the name for the little cards that go with some aliens in this expansion, such as Nanny) that hurts another player can be thought of as a penalty. They vary a lot by alien and card. You'll know them when you see them.


Are they actually little? Smaller than all other cards in the game?

That's typical FFG. If you've ever played games like Chaos in the Old World (may she RIP) or Arkham Horror, you should be familiar with the two card sizes in the same game.
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Just a Bill
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FFG's product page shows that Eons calls for 2 packs of "yellow" card sleeves.


From this information, we can conclude that the set contains more than 50, but not more than 100, mini cards measuring 1-5/8" by 2-1/2".
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Charles S

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Can the Evil Twins power be used as the offense?
 
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Jefferson Krogh
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TruthTaco wrote:
Can the Evil Twins power be used as the offense?


Yes, "main player" refers to the offense and the defense.
 
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