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Subject: EpiPen CEO: I didn't do it, blame something, anything else rss

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J.D. Hall
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She wants us to blame the system ... or lack of transparency ... or flying purple monkeys. Good to know personal responsibility is alive and well among those who make $19,000,000.00 a year.

http://money.cnn.com/2016/08/25/investing/epipen-cost-ceo-lo...
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Boaty McBoatface
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Ohh yes the

"I had to do it, because no one made me not do it"


defense.
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Drew
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Thanks for the rent-free space in your head. Would have been nice if you'd cleaned it up a bit before you rented it out, though.
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Since we're in full "Guilt-by-Association" mode lately, I feel it necessary to point out that her father is Sen. Joe Manchin. Democrat.
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Daniel
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Sounds like another government granted monopoly and restriction of competition.
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Pontifex Maximus
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Drew1365 wrote:
Since we're in full "Guilt-by-Association" mode lately, I feel it necessary to point out that her father is Sen. Joe Manchin. Democrat.


Really, did he have anything to do with the pricing decision, or are we being treated to your daily word salad?
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Born To Lose, Live To Win
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dandechino wrote:
Sounds like another government granted monopoly and restriction of competition.
The more we treat corporations like people, the more power they get. The concept needs to be reworked because Big Business controls DC.
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Drew
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Thanks for the rent-free space in your head. Would have been nice if you'd cleaned it up a bit before you rented it out, though.
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TheChin! wrote:
dandechino wrote:
Sounds like another government granted monopoly and restriction of competition.
The more we treat corporations like people, the more power they get. The concept needs to be reworked because Big Business controls DC.


I wonder why they'd want to control DC?
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jeremy cobert
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TheChin! wrote:
dandechino wrote:
Sounds like another government granted monopoly and restriction of competition.
The more we treat corporations like people, the more power they get. The concept needs to be reworked because Big Business controls DC.


in 2009 Obama signed a law forcing dozens of epi-pens into every school. meanwhile, the FDA has so many roadblocks to entry that is prevents a fast track alternative.

So government created a problem , prevents competition and now blames the free market.

um, o.k.

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Boaty McBoatface
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jeremycobert wrote:
TheChin! wrote:
dandechino wrote:
Sounds like another government granted monopoly and restriction of competition.
The more we treat corporations like people, the more power they get. The concept needs to be reworked because Big Business controls DC.


in 2009 Obama signed a law forcing dozens of epi-pens into every school. meanwhile, the FDA has so many roadblocks to entry that is prevents a fast track alternative.

So government created a problem , prevents competition and now blames the free market.

um, o.k.

Forced and encouraged are not the same words.
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Pontifex Maximus
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jeremycobert wrote:
TheChin! wrote:
dandechino wrote:
Sounds like another government granted monopoly and restriction of competition.
The more we treat corporations like people, the more power they get. The concept needs to be reworked because Big Business controls DC.


in 2009 Obama signed a law forcing dozens of epi-pens into every school. meanwhile, the FDA has so many roadblocks to entry that is prevents a fast track alternative.

So government created a problem , prevents competition and now blames the free market.

um, o.k.



Actually there is an alternative which is getting a lot of attention now with the price gouging on epic-pens

http://www.consumerreports.org/drugs/how-to-get-cheaper-epip...

Its the marketing program by epi-pens makers that make it seem like they are the only ones available.

But why let facts ruin your meme
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J
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Drew1365 wrote:
Since we're in full "Guilt-by-Association" mode lately, I feel it necessary to point out that her father is Sen. Joe Manchin. Democrat.

So?
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Steve K
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A well timed contribution to the correct candidates and PACs and this issue will evaporate like a can of carelessly opened Freon. Of efficient markets, very few compare with the DNC.
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Drew
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Thanks for the rent-free space in your head. Would have been nice if you'd cleaned it up a bit before you rented it out, though.
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I control your mind.
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jeremycobert wrote:
in 2009 Obama signed a law forcing dozens of epi-pens into every school. meanwhile, the FDA has so many roadblocks to entry that is prevents a fast track alternative.

So government created a problem , prevents competition and now blames the free market.


Yep. I haven't looked up this 2009 law you mention, but the manufacturer of EpiPen spent millions lobbying for the 2013 School Access to Emergency Epinephrine Act. At the same time they increased the cost 400%.

It's good to have friends in Washington who will create laws requiring your product be purchased en masse, and then narrow your field of competition so that you can have a monopoly.

If you think this is the free market at work, you don't really understand the concept of "free market."
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Boaty McBoatface
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So I take it then that EpiPen is the only Epinephrine the law allows in schools?
 
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jeremy cobert
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Kumitedad wrote:
Its the marketing program by epi-pens makers that make it seem like they are the only ones available.

But why let facts ruin your meme


Lets ask a Doctor and former legislator.

Quote:
With the FDA, patents, and cozy insurance relationships, Mylan has been able to steadily increase the price of EpiPens without significant market repercussions. Though, the current backlash may push many patients and doctors to look for alternatives. The only problem is that alternatives are few and far between because of government interventions.

Epinephrine is extremely cheap—just a few cents per dose. The complications come from producing the easy auto-injecting devices. Mylan “owns” their auto-injector device design, so competitors must find work-arounds in their devices to deliver the epinephrine into the patient’s body. This task, coupled with the tangled mess of FDA red tape, has proven to be difficult for would-be EpiPen competitors. It’s like expecting somebody to come up with a new way to play baseball without bases, balls, gloves, or bats, but still getting the game approved by the MLB as a baseball game substitute.


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Andre
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jeremycobert wrote:
Kumitedad wrote:
Its the marketing program by epi-pens makers that make it seem like they are the only ones available.

But why let facts ruin your meme


Lets ask a Doctor and former legislator.

Quote:
With the FDA, patents, and cozy insurance relationships, Mylan has been able to steadily increase the price of EpiPens without significant market repercussions. Though, the current backlash may push many patients and doctors to look for alternatives. The only problem is that alternatives are few and far between because of government interventions.

Epinephrine is extremely cheap—just a few cents per dose. The complications come from producing the easy auto-injecting devices. Mylan “owns” their auto-injector device design, so competitors must find work-arounds in their devices to deliver the epinephrine into the patient’s body. This task, coupled with the tangled mess of FDA red tape, has proven to be difficult for would-be EpiPen competitors. It’s like expecting somebody to come up with a new way to play baseball without bases, balls, gloves, or bats, but still getting the game approved by the MLB as a baseball game substitute.




So what does FDA red tape, or any other "reason" listed above have anything to do with the cost that Mylan is charging for the drug. What would explain the fact that the cost to consumers has increased hugely in the past 7 years, the drug is the same, the delivery system that Mylan offers is the same, so why the big increase, other than corporate greed?
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J
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jeremycobert wrote:
Kumitedad wrote:
Its the marketing program by epi-pens makers that make it seem like they are the only ones available.

But why let facts ruin your meme


Lets ask a Doctor and former legislator.

Quote:
With the FDA, patents, and cozy insurance relationships, Mylan has been able to steadily increase the price of EpiPens without significant market repercussions. Though, the current backlash may push many patients and doctors to look for alternatives. The only problem is that alternatives are few and far between because of government interventions.

Epinephrine is extremely cheap—just a few cents per dose. The complications come from producing the easy auto-injecting devices. Mylan “owns” their auto-injector device design, so competitors must find work-arounds in their devices to deliver the epinephrine into the patient’s body. This task, coupled with the tangled mess of FDA red tape, has proven to be difficult for would-be EpiPen competitors. It’s like expecting somebody to come up with a new way to play baseball without bases, balls, gloves, or bats, but still getting the game approved by the MLB as a baseball game substitute.



Adrenaclick is one competitor that is on the market.
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Born To Lose, Live To Win
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jeremycobert wrote:
in 2009 Obama signed a law forcing dozens of epi-pens into every school. meanwhile, the FDA has so many roadblocks to entry that is prevents a fast track alternative.

So government created a problem , prevents competition and now blames the free market.

um, o.k.
Really? Who do you think supports, lobbies for and greases palms for those road blocks? Because we allowed the flow of money from Big Business to law makers and bureaucrats. The FDA, USDA and EPA are all on the take to one extent or another. They wouldn't be if we could build a money-proofresistant wall between business and lawmakers.
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Born To Lose, Live To Win
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Drew1365 wrote:
I wonder why they'd want to control DC?
To ensure they get all the Benjamins. The people with the most Benjamins get to create the paths the Benjamins take, which is to themselves. This is why the rich get richer and the poor get poorer.
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There's a shape called "The Golden Rectangle". Have you heard of it?
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It refers to a rectangle that's approximately contstructed in the ratio of 9 to 16. The golden rectangle has several characteristics. Let's say I create a square within this shape. Then, this smaller rectangle that I just created will also be a
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golden rectangle. I make another square within that and the leftover is another golden rectangle. And I make a few more, and when I connect all the central points of these shapes it creates a spiral that continues forever. This is the "Golden Spin".
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abadolato01 wrote:
So what does FDA red tape, or any other "reason" listed above have anything to do with the cost that Mylan is charging for the drug. What would explain the fact that the cost to consumers has increased hugely in the past 7 years, the drug is the same, the delivery system that Mylan offers is the same, so why the big increase, other than corporate greed?


No one has ever claimed that Mylan isn't doing this to get more money (because God forbid a business charge whatever they can get for their product), just that overly restrictive IP law and FDA regulation provides an environment where such over-inflated prices for easily reproducible products are possible.
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jeremy cobert
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abadolato01 wrote:
So what does FDA red tape, or any other "reason" listed above have anything to do with the cost that Mylan is charging for the drug.


Are you kidding or serious ?

If you have a product and the government is now mandating that consumers must buy it and competitors will be hamstrung trying to get into the market, would the prices ever come down ?

Do they not teach economics 101 anymore ?
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Boaty McBoatface
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jmilum wrote:
jeremycobert wrote:
Kumitedad wrote:
Its the marketing program by epi-pens makers that make it seem like they are the only ones available.

But why let facts ruin your meme


Lets ask a Doctor and former legislator.

Quote:
With the FDA, patents, and cozy insurance relationships, Mylan has been able to steadily increase the price of EpiPens without significant market repercussions. Though, the current backlash may push many patients and doctors to look for alternatives. The only problem is that alternatives are few and far between because of government interventions.

Epinephrine is extremely cheap—just a few cents per dose. The complications come from producing the easy auto-injecting devices. Mylan “owns” their auto-injector device design, so competitors must find work-arounds in their devices to deliver the epinephrine into the patient’s body. This task, coupled with the tangled mess of FDA red tape, has proven to be difficult for would-be EpiPen competitors. It’s like expecting somebody to come up with a new way to play baseball without bases, balls, gloves, or bats, but still getting the game approved by the MLB as a baseball game substitute.



Adrenaclick is one competitor that is on the market.
https://medlineplus.gov/druginfo/meds/a603002.html

Brand names

Adrenaclick®
Adrenalin® Chloride Solution

EpiPen® Auto-Injector
EpiPen® Jr. Auto-Injector

Twinject

I see three brands listed on the government recommendations.
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Born To Lose, Live To Win
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jeremycobert wrote:
Lets ask a Doctor and former legislator.

Quote:
With the FDA, patents, and cozy insurance relationships, Mylan has been able to steadily increase the price of EpiPens without significant market repercussions. Though, the current backlash may push many patients and doctors to look for alternatives. The only problem is that alternatives are few and far between because of government interventions.

Epinephrine is extremely cheap—just a few cents per dose. The complications come from producing the easy auto-injecting devices. Mylan “owns” their auto-injector device design, so competitors must find work-arounds in their devices to deliver the epinephrine into the patient’s body. This task, coupled with the tangled mess of FDA red tape, has proven to be difficult for would-be EpiPen competitors. It’s like expecting somebody to come up with a new way to play baseball without bases, balls, gloves, or bats, but still getting the game approved by the MLB as a baseball game substitute.
I'm not sure this is wholly accurate. When I was in the service we had chemical warfare antidote auto-injectors that were not filled with epinephrine. Though I suppose the injectors could have been licensed, since I bet the military payed top dollar for them.
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Ron Preisach
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I just saw an epi-pen commercial at lunch. I couldn't help but think that they should have listed loss of wallet as a side-effect.
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Andre
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jeremycobert wrote:
abadolato01 wrote:
So what does FDA red tape, or any other "reason" listed above have anything to do with the cost that Mylan is charging for the drug.


Are you kidding or serious ?

If you have a product and the government is now mandating that consumers must buy it and competitors will be hamstrung trying to get into the market, would the prices ever come down ?

Do they not teach economics 101 anymore ?


I am not sure that the Government is mandating that Epinepfhrine from Mylan be purchased. Economics 101 indicates that the price will go up, when demand for a product does, or if supply is severely restricted. But none of this really answers real question of why they feel the need to gouge the public (and make no mistake, gouging it is) for the drug, when nothing relating to how and what they offer has changed, since 2007. Are you attempting to say that they are right to charge whatever they can get for it?? We are not talking about a car or some "optional" object here, we are talking about a medicine that many people may need to survive. This goes well beyond the field of economics, into the realm of human decency. The larger question, again, is why can't they charge the 2007 price, when NOTHING has changed, save the economic conditions that allow them to gouge the public. I'd like to hear what you consider to be the definition of price gouging.
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