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Subject: Hybrid Engine. rss

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Sean Turner
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I am a little confused about the wording of this rule. In the text it states "if you have more than any other player, then move two spaces." I understand that you just need to have more cubes than any single player on the board has in their discard pile. Not more than each of the other players.

Now the confusion. the last line of the description says "you may move your car two spaces as long as no other player has more blue cubes in their discard pile than you" This appears to me that if anyone has more cubes than you then you can't move two spaces.

Don't these completely contradict each other? Which one is correct?
 
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Jon Ben
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"if you have more than any other player, then move two spaces."

This means that you must have plurality. You must have more when compared to each other player individually. If you wanted to say that you only needed to have more than any single player then something like:

"if you have more than another player, then move two spaces."

would make more sense.
 
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Alexandre P.
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On my card the wording is "if you have more blue cubes on your player board than in any other player's discard pile" so I don't see any confusion.
 
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Jon Ben
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Here's the clarification text on Yucata
http://www.yucata.de/en/Rules/Automobiles

Quote:
Gain 1 wear cube from the stock. Count how many blue cubes you currently have in your active pile, used pile, and discard pile collectively. Compare that total against blue cubes found in each other player’s discard pile. Make this comparison with each other player individually, not all other players as a group. If you have more than any other player, then move your blue cube up to 2 consecutive spaces on the board. These 2 spaces must be the same color. For example, if you had 1 blue cube in your active pile, 1 on the track, and 2 blue cubes in your discard pile, then you could move 2 spaces of any color as long as no other player had 4 or more blue cubes in their discard pile.
 
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Jon Ben
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Xahendir wrote:
On my card the wording is "if you have more blue cubes on your player board than in any other player's discard pile" so I don't see any confusion.


This is the classic 'any' problem. Does it mean any one player or each other player. It can be parsed both ways.
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Sean Turner
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JonBen wrote:
Xahendir wrote:
On my card the wording is "if you have more blue cubes on your player board than in any other player's discard pile" so I don't see any confusion.


This is the classic 'any' problem. Does it mean any one player or each other player. It can be parsed both ways.


Exactly, and I don't think anything has been said yet that confirms either way. To me, you are asked to compare to each player. Then if you beat "any" of the players move 2 spaces. That means you only have to beat one other player. If it was all players wouldn't it say if you have more than "all" players then move 2 spaces?
 
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Alexandre P.
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I have always compared to each other player and used the ability only if I was the player with the greater number of cubes.
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Jon Ben
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Sean: Yucata consults the publisher/designer when putting games up I think you can trust their interpretation.

Your suggestion of 'more than all players' falls into the other trap that people will then compare to all players as a group instead of individually which is not correct.

 
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Sean Turner
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I just found it on Yucata and have yet to play. Is that they way it plays during a game?
 
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Todd
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Saltone wrote:
JonBen wrote:
Xahendir wrote:
On my card the wording is "if you have more blue cubes on your player board than in any other player's discard pile" so I don't see any confusion.


This is the classic 'any' problem. Does it mean any one player or each other player. It can be parsed both ways.


Exactly, and I don't think anything has been said yet that confirms either way. To me, you are asked to compare to each player. Then if you beat "any" of the players move 2 spaces. That means you only have to beat one other player. If it was all players wouldn't it say if you have more than "all" players then move 2 spaces?


Nope. You have to have more blue cubes than all players to get the bonus.

The rulebook is below and while "any" is used in an ambiguous way, the last sentence makes it clear. "As long as NO OTHER PLAYER had 4 or more blue cubes in their discard pile." Plus, I cheated and asked the designer and he confirmed it.

Quote:
Hybrid Engine: Gain 1 wear cube from the stock. Count how many blue cubes you currently have in your active pile, used pile, and discard pile collectively. Compare that total against blue cubes found in each other player’s discard pile.
Make this comparison with each other player individually, not all other players as a group. If you have more than any other player, then move your blue cube up to 2 consecutive spaces on the board. These 2 spaces must be the same color. For example, if you had 1 blue cube in your active pile, 1 on the track, and 2 blue cubes in your discard pile, then you could move 2 spaces of any color as long as no other player had 4 or more blue cubes in their discard pile.


I'm afraid this brings a cloud of doubt on
Sean Turner
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2016 Gencon 500 (Automobiles) Championship.
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Sean Turner
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FezAZ wrote:
I'm afraid this brings a cloud of doubt on
Sean Turner
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2016 Gencon 500 (Automobiles) Championship.


Second is the first loser high School Boy!

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Peter Elsenheimer
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FezAZ wrote:
Saltone wrote:
JonBen wrote:
Xahendir wrote:
On my card the wording is "if you have more blue cubes on your player board than in any other player's discard pile" so I don't see any confusion.


This is the classic 'any' problem. Does it mean any one player or each other player. It can be parsed both ways.


Exactly, and I don't think anything has been said yet that confirms either way. To me, you are asked to compare to each player. Then if you beat "any" of the players move 2 spaces. That means you only have to beat one other player. If it was all players wouldn't it say if you have more than "all" players then move 2 spaces?


Nope. You have to have more blue cubes than all players to get the bonus.

The rulebook is below and while "any" is used in an ambiguous way, the last sentence makes it clear. "As long as NO OTHER PLAYER had 4 or more blue cubes in their discard pile." Plus, I cheated and asked the designer and he confirmed it.

Quote:
Hybrid Engine: Gain 1 wear cube from the stock. Count how many blue cubes you currently have in your active pile, used pile, and discard pile collectively. Compare that total against blue cubes found in each other player’s discard pile.
Make this comparison with each other player individually, not all other players as a group. If you have more than any other player, then move your blue cube up to 2 consecutive spaces on the board. These 2 spaces must be the same color. For example, if you had 1 blue cube in your active pile, 1 on the track, and 2 blue cubes in your discard pile, then you could move 2 spaces of any color as long as no other player had 4 or more blue cubes in their discard pile.


I'm afraid this brings a cloud of doubt on
Sean Turner
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2016 Gencon 500 (Automobiles) Championship.


We discussed the Hybrid Engine midgame at that event, and agreed that I interpreted the Hybrid Engine incorrectly, but that we would finish the game as we had already been playing, and if in the future games we encountered the Hybrid Engine again, we would then play with the correct interpretation then.
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