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Subject: Congress of Gamers No-ship Math Trade, Rockville Maryland, Saturday September 24 2016 rss

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Eric Sokolowsky
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Laurel
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This is a no-shipping math trade held at Congress of Gamers in Rockville, Maryland, on Saturday September 24, 2016. We will not be using the OLWLG for this trade. We will be using abecorn. Deadline for want list submissions: Monday, September 19, 2016, 10:00 pm Eastern. Results will be posted shortly thereafter.

Link to trade on abecorn: http://trade.abecorn.com/#/trade/57a7a38b91e7cb003b9513bd
Discussion thread: https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1627788
Event website: http://emsps.com/cog/
Suggested deadline for trade entries: Thursday, September 15, 2016
Deadline for trade submissions: Monday, September 19, 2016, 10:00 pm Eastern

Posting games to trade before the suggested deadline gives your fellow traders the weekend to peruse your entries before the Monday deadline.

The actual trade will take place at the convention. If you or your proxy are not present and you do not make other arrangements, you will be responsible for all shipping costs to send and receive the games you traded. You will drop off your games on Saturday any time before 2pm. You will pick up your games at the same location any time after 2pm on Saturday. If you cannot be there on Saturday please make other arrangements with your trading partners.

Rules:

1. You must subscribe to this thread to be informed of changes. This is particularly important since I am learning how to use abecorn for this trade, and there may be changes once I get up and running.

2. Board games, Video Games, RPG items, gift cards and/or certificates, geek gold, and cash are allowed. Use the game item "Outside the Scope of BGG" for geekgold, cash, or gift certificates. If you choose to receive cash, gift certificates, or gift cards, you will need to pay 3% of the value to BoardGameGeek as their commission. After the trade is done, create a marketplace listing with "Miscellaneous Game Accessory" for the amount of the gift card, and then have the sender (the seller) buy it.

3. Please describe your items as fully as possible, including publisher, edition, language, completeness and condition of the game. It is NOT enough to include a picture and say "as pictured," because this does not provide enough information for your fellow traders. Err on the side of too much information. Remember that you want people to pick your items, and the more information they have the more likely they will put your items on their want lists. But don't write a book for each game. Long disclaimers are not pleasant to read either.

4. Only errors by the moderator will invalidate the results. In the case of problems after the results are posted, they will at most invalidate only the affected trade chain(s) and not the entire result set. In addition if a problem can be resolved by the most directly affected party or parties, then that will be the preferred course of action.

5. Software Used: TradeMaximizer 1.4 with duplicate protection. SEED=74951, ITERATIONS=30, METRIC=USERS-TRADING

6. Visit abecorn.com to get started. Sign up for an account, and optionally link it to your BGG account. Look for a link for "hosted trades," under which you will find the Congress of Gamers. I believe you can post games directly from your BGG collection but since I'm new at this too please let's all help each other through it. There's a tutorial for abecorn here: http://abecorn.wikispaces.com/

Edit: Here's the discussion thread for abecorn, so if you have trouble you can get more help: https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1579174/abecorn-feature-req...
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Eric Sokolowsky
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Laurel
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Reserved for results
 
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'Arctica' Gary
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Likely going to skip this one due to abecorn
 
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Ben Stephenson
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3wgames wrote:
Likely going to skip this one due to abecorn
Were you having issues navigating the system? I'd be happy to make improvements from your feedback.
 
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'Arctica' Gary
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Thanks Bien,

I want to like your system since OLWLG is such a resource drag, but its not designed well for navigating lots of items at once and really navigating the trade, i dont find it convenient to add my own items in and i prefer the backstopping and consistency that running the trade on BGG itself provides.

I do hope it eventually catches on though.
 
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Ben Stephenson
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3wgames wrote:
but its not designed well for navigating lots of items at once and really navigating the trade, i dont find it convenient to add my own items


We've added a lot since the last time you visited. We've added a view mode and you can choose to condense the item listings by seeing text only (see below). We've added a filter for your wants and the ability to add all of your BGG entries at once instead of one at a time.


3wgames wrote:

i prefer the backstopping and consistency that running the trade on BGG itself provides.


We've integrated much more with BGG as well. All the trade results are automatically posted on BGG in a nice forum format (example). We've added a BGG trade manager button that automatically fills out the trade using their system. All items directly link to BGG.

But most importantly of all, we don't suffer the outages and sync issues like other trades have as we only pull user data and push back results to BGG.

3wgames wrote:

I do hope it eventually catches on though.

Give it another try, I'm sure we can make changes with your feedback to customize the experience to whatever your needs.
 
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'Arctica' Gary
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I noticed that there were improvements, unfortunately they still weren't enough to convince me its better yet. I think its designed well for its original purpose - the never ending ongoing storefront/tradefront concept. For these one-off, defined timeline events its still not designed as efficiently and as well integrated as the OLWLG is and its not easy to manage multiple items. Your text view you show above is not easy to read whatsoever - for one, there is more information on every line about the trade you are participating than the game itself - every single line takes up half its space with a big blue distracting box showing you which trade you are participating in - on every. single. line.

its on the top of the page. Why do I need to see it on every line, taking up space? This would never be an issue on OLWLG. I'm sure this is useful for the ongoing tradefront concept but for a defined timeline trade, its very distracting. You also completely overlook the basic fundamentals of user interface. The primary function of this page is for people to click the "+" symbol for items they want to add. But the "+" symbol is in a different spot on every single line because it comes at the end, after the variable length description. On OLWLG the add button is in the same spot on every line and is much easier to work with particularly the bigger a trade gets. But this thread isn't the right place to discuss all that discussion, so if i have anything else to add, i'll try to find an abecorn specific thread.
 
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Ben Stephenson
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Your thoughts are useful for improving this.

3wgames wrote:
... i'll try to find an abecorn specific thread.


Here's what we're working on now
Feedback Roadmap

Here's our feedback/suggestion/complaint thread we use to add to the roadmap.
 
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Eric Sokolowsky
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Laurel
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3wgames, I understand your reluctance to try this new method. I myself was very used to the OLWLG so using abecorn is quite a shift, and a learning experience for all of us. Why not participate and make the experience better for all of those who come after? The actual trade at the convention will be the same as in past events, so all the learning curve is in the comfort of your own home in front of your computer. Please consider joining us in this experiment.
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'Arctica' Gary
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What is the reason for the switch from OLWLG then? Just using this trade as an experiment to try to help bring Abecorn up to the task of handling defined timeline; local pickup trades of this type that it wasn't designed for?
 
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Jerome King
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Is it possible to add other pictures inside the description? It seems if the pictures are hosted on some other server, it may be possible to add a url pointing to an image. Is that the only option to add pics to show condition?

 
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Eric Engelmann
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I have 600 more games than it would make sense to list in the trade. Please check my marketplace on BGG and let me know if you'd like me to add specific games to the trade. Thanks!

https://boardgamegeek.com/geekmarket/user/Eric%20Engelmann
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Ben Stephenson
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jejeking wrote:
Is it possible to add other pictures inside the description? It seems if the pictures are hosted on some other server, it may be possible to add a url pointing to an image. Is that the only option to add pics to show condition?


Copy and pasting an image into the description also works.
 
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Jerome King
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Eric, how about adding Agricola, Shogun and Vinhos?
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Ben Stephenson
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3wgames wrote:
...Your text view you show above is not easy to read whatsoever....
... The primary function of this page is for people to click the "+" symbol for items they want to add. But the "+" symbol is in a different spot on every single line because it comes at the end..


Made some suggested changes to the text only view mode. Thanks!
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Eric Engelmann
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jejeking wrote:
Eric, how about adding Agricola, Shogun and Vinhos?

Done!
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Larry Geyer
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Eric Engelmann wrote:
I have 600 more games than it would make sense to list in the trade. Please check my marketplace on BGG and let me know if you'd like me to add specific games to the trade. Thanks!

https://boardgamegeek.com/geekmarket/user/Eric%20Engelmann


El Grande
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Casual Gamer

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Just to confirm - with this new software, do you need to SUBMIT your trades or is the matrix automatically saved and submitted at the end of the countdown clock?
 
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Ben Stephenson
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urnmywy wrote:
Just to confirm - with this new software, do you need to SUBMIT your trades or is the matrix automatically saved and submitted at the end of the countdown clock?


It's automatically saved and submitted at the end of the countdown.
 
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Eric Sokolowsky
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This is why it is so important to get your entries in early. The earlier you get them in, the more time people have to see them, to put on their wants.

Those entering the trade should also keep their wants up to date (that matrix thingy with all the check boxes).
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Bryan Yeager
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So when do we actually get to submit?
 
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Eric Sokolowsky
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This is the biggest difference between the OLWLG and abecorn. There is no submit. You just maintain your wants matrix how you like it, adding new items, checking boxes, etc., and when the trade ends it takes the wants as they exist at that moment and runs the trade on them. That's why it's important to put your entries in as early as possible because that gives your fellow traders more time to look at your entries and add them to their wants.

I suggest that you put in your entries before Thursday this week to give everyone the weekend to look over your submissions. The trade will end next Monday evening (one week from today).

I hope this is clear. If not please ask questions!

Eric
 
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'Arctica' Gary
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Yea, Abecorn is designed for an entirely different purpose.


Its designed based on people having accurate want lists for things they want to get during on-going (never-ending) trade cycles.


It's not optimally designed for this type of short duration, defined ending, fixed location exchange. It makes the interface a lot more cumbersome and will take some getting used to for those who haven't used it before.


The fact is that in fixed-timeline fixed-location trades like this, many people trade for things that are *not* specifically on their normal want list - because they are analyzing the list of things on offer for the trade and deciding if they "want that more" than the item they are offering, opposed to if they just 'want it' in general. They don't have to worry entirely about making sure they only get the 'best' items they want, as they aren't paying shipping so like for like or trading for something you know nothing about but like the cover art or 'want to try it' is far more palatable then in other situations.

Thats one of the big benefits of the submission period in these trades, for people to *Create* a brand new want list based on the items on offer in that particular trade.
 
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George Louie
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I've used OLWLG in 3 previous No-Ship Math Trades, and Abecorn for a more recent No Ship Math Trade and while I found Abecorn confusing at first, I definitely prefer it over OLWLG.

OLWLG was very difficult to learn. It wasn't very intuitive at all... having to submit was strange, I didnt understand importing from BGG, and tying it to a BGG Geeklist made it confusing, and the whole Duplicate Protection is very clunky...

If I hadn't been "trained" by OLWLG, I would've found Abecorn easier to learn than OLWLG. The issues I had with Abecorn had more to do with what I was I used to with OLWLG, than the Abecorn interface.

I guess if I had to list 25+ games which are already listed as "For Trade" on BGG, it would be nice to import from my BGG collection. But I usually only offer up between 5-15 items, so its really not that big a deal to me..

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George Louie
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Listing Request:

I'm looking for a copy of Xenon Profiteer and/or Eminent Domain. If you have one available, please list.

Thanks!!!
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