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Combat Commander: Europe» Forums » Rules

Subject: Mines and Jammed rss

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kevin morgan
United Kingdom
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Hi all,

Picked up CC Europe a couple of months ago, generally loving it and its great balance of frustrating and rewarding moments (had a hissy fit a few times when the cards go against me!)

I have a few questions about a couple of rules, more for clarity really as we understand the implementation of them.

Mines - why are pre-placed mines for scenarios always deployed on map and not hidden? Or why isn't there a chance for each one of knowing/not knowing where they are before the games starts? I'm pondering a house rule allowing a 50/50 chance of knowing where they are at the start, otherwise their location could be written down by the player and revealed when activated.

Jammed - was wondering what the logic is for all weapons to jam if this happens (I had one last night where two German LMGs in a fire group jammed, then subsequently both broke on a random hex a turn or two later). Is it just to add a bit of jeopardy to making big fire groups?

Thanks!
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Mark Buetow
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McHenry
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drambuie wrote:
Hi all,

Picked up CC Europe a couple of months ago, generally loving it and its great balance of frustrating and rewarding moments (had a hissy fit a few times when the cards go against me!)

I have a few questions about a couple of rules, more for clarity really as we understand the implementation of them.

Mines - why are pre-placed mines for scenarios always deployed on map and not hidden? Or why isn't there a chance for each one of knowing/not knowing where they are before the games starts? I'm pondering a house rule allowing a 50/50 chance of knowing where they are at the start, otherwise their location could be written down by the player and revealed when activated.


I would say it's likely the result of Chad's (the designer) effort to keep things as simple as possible. Mine could represent other hazards as well (not just "land mines.") In any case, the uncertainty comes in whether or not they'll do any damage to units that move into that hex. Finally, note that there is a Defender Only Action called "Hidden Mines" which lets the Defender place mines into a hex into which a unit just moved or advanced. That definitely puts mines in the surprise category!

Quote:

Jammed - was wondering what the logic is for all weapons to jam if this happens (I had one last night where two German LMGs in a fire group jammed, then subsequently both broke on a random hex a turn or two later). Is it just to add a bit of jeopardy to making big fire groups?

Thanks!


Again it may not be that the guns are "jammed" so much as it is a low ammo supply or many other little things that might have happened. It may again be that effor to keep things simple and consistent in the game. It's also, in game terms, one of those things you need to consider because you can get a lot of firepower out of a bunch of weapons, but may jam them. The worst part is if you Jam them, your roll was low. So, maybe a time to use that Initiative Card if you have it?

One of the biggest draw of playing Combat Commander for me (and many others who will echo the same sentiment) is knowing that these awful things can happen without warning and yet being able to modify your place, adapt, and carry on, dealing with whatever happens in the game and not getting frustrated.

Enjoy CC! The community for the game is great here an BGG!
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Marty Sample
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Think of Mines kind of like Wire in the sense that even you though they're seen ahead of time, a smart defender will place them to either constrict your axis of attack, and/or cover them with units so if you risk traversing through, a unit that breaks could be eliminated all in the same move if subject to Opp fire after the Mine attacks resolves.
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Christopher
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Gunderian007 wrote:

Here is a very weird factoid from USA military analysis: At most, only 20% of American front line troops ever fire their weapon at the enemy, and this includes elite formations.


Is this in reference to the research of SLA Marshall? His work has come into question. You can find lots of discussion on the web about his claims and the skepticism that others have put forward about those claims. It's a fascinating topic. Check out this article, which has a Canadian spin to it:

www.canadianmilitaryhistory.ca/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/4-...

Unless more research or data comes to light, it seems we may never know what ratio of troops actually fired in combat in WW2.

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Mark Buetow
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war_hero wrote:
Gunderian007 wrote:

Here is a very weird factoid from USA military analysis: At most, only 20% of American front line troops ever fire their weapon at the enemy, and this includes elite formations.


Is this in reference to the research of SLA Marshall? His work has come into question. You can find lots of discussion on the web about his claims and the skepticism that others have put forward about those claims. It's a fascinating topic. Check out this article, which has a Canadian spin to it:

www.canadianmilitaryhistory.ca/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/4-...

Unless more research or data comes to light, it seems we may never know what ratio of troops actually fired in combat in WW2.



Actually, that research has come under fire from less than 20% of WWII historians.
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kevin morgan
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Thanks for your thoughts all. Yes I agree, it's sometimes easy to look at the cards too precisely and interpret them directly rather than more abstractedly. Bit like range being boosted by commanders - I read somewhere else that this could reflect improved accuracy/focus rather than making a squad fire further which makes total sense.

It's an excellent system, both me and my gaming partner are really enjoying it and makes a nice change from the more usual Euro-type games we play (I'm an old-style wargamer too, have Panzer Blitz gathering dust on the shelf ).

These forums have really helped answer some of our more confused issues (OP fire being a key one).

As an aside I got my first Hero the other night, he ran in and reoccupied a captured building in scenario 9 and used up 4 rounds and about 10 cards from the enemy before he finally succumbed to overwhelming odds!



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Mark Buetow
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drambuie wrote:

As an aside I got my first Hero the other night, he ran in and reoccupied a captured building in scenario 9 and used up 4 rounds and about 10 cards from the enemy before he finally succumbed to overwhelming odds!





May he be remembered with pride and admiration! I once had a hero on the beaches of Normandy who got a hold of a flamethrower and went running down the communication trenches clearing out bunkers and strongpoints. Still one of my favorite scenarios to play.
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