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Dead of Winter: The Long Night» Forums » General

Subject: Location cards differnt colour backs...! rss

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Ian Armstrong
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So I just noticed that the backs on the new location cards are a different colour. It's not just a slight difference either. The location cards from ALN are much lighter (almost a blue colour) then the backs from the original game.

This is very disappointing and I HATE when game companies do this. I bought this as an expansion, and had fully intended to play it with the original, and never just on it's own.

I only saw one reference to this issue in the forums so far, and the poster simply said you should sleeve the cards as there is a colour difference. To me there should be more up roar about this, as I shouldn't be forced to spend another $15 or so to buy opaque sleeves for these cards.

I guess I will get in touch with Plaid Hat and see if they can provide a replacement deck that matches in colour.
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Andrew Kapish
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Color will differ depending on the printer and the paper stock.
I hate to break it to you, but Plaid Hat surely hasn't ordered multiple TLN runs with multiple printers. There won't be any replacement packs floating around matching your earlier version deck.

Apparently they've switched printers between the original production and the expansion.
I wouldn't be surprised if the corner radius is slightly different as well, since different printers will have different dies. This is just one of those sucky things that occasionally happens, oftentimes outside of a publisher's control.
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Ian Armstrong
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So it's just something that's meant to be accepted, and carry on..?

I would at least like an official answer on this from Plaid Hat. Companies need to be held accountable for issues like this when they arise. To me it's a pretty noticeable difference and will detract from the gameplay.

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Ian Armstrong
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If anything I am making others aware of this issue. If this is something that will bother you and you don't want to feel forced to pay extra $ for opaque sleeves, be warned!

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Mr Suitcase
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This doesn't make this "OK", but you can sleeve to mask the backs.

edit: nevermind. You mention this in your original post.
 
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Jean-Philippe Thériault
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As someone who has studied vision (human and computer) as part of his computer science Masters degree, I have to say, anytime components from a game and its expansion have color matching, it's probably more a function of the lack of accuracy of your vision than of the quality of the components.

Card sleeve companies can't even get their sleeves to match color between batches (you're lucky when they get to match between two packs that got produced and shipped in the same batch). People need to start seriously downgrading their expectations when it comes to color matching products made years apart in completely different factories and conditions.
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Ivor Bolakov
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dante2010xxx wrote:
I shouldn't be forced


Good news! You're not.
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Ian Armstrong
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I can't believe so many people in here are complacent enough to just accept that producing new cards meant to be used with an older set with a different colour back is acceptable.

I realize I'm not being forced to purchase sleeves for the cards, but if I don't then my game now has a flaw in it, put there by the company.

What if they did the same thing with Ashes? How would people feel when building a deck from base set cards and new deck cards with a different coloured back?
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Ian Armstrong
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XDarkAngelX wrote:
As someone who has studied vision (human and computer) as part of his computer science Masters degree, I have to say, anytime components from a game and its expansion have color matching, it's probably more a function of the lack of accuracy of your vision than of the quality of the components.

Card sleeve companies can't even get their sleeves to match color between batches (you're lucky when they get to match between two packs that got produced and shipped in the same batch). People need to start seriously downgrading their expectations when it comes to color matching products made years apart in completely different factories and conditions.


How come many other companies that produce expansions seem to be able to get it correct then? I've only witnessed this issue with one other expansion, and that was Takenoko Chibis. Any other expansion I own that has cards, the backing appears to be colour matched enough that you would not be able to determine when a card from the expansion is on top.
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Andrew Kapish
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dante2010xxx wrote:
I can't believe so many people in here are complacent enough to just accept that producing new cards meant to be used with an older set with a different colour back is acceptable.

It seems like you're not understanding that Plaid Hat didn't design the color difference.
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Chemist .
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dante2010xxx wrote:
Companies need to be held accountable for issues like this when they arise.



We have a social justice warrior here. There's no uproar because nobody else notices it. Everyone's DNA is unique.
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Jason
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SDSUChemTA wrote:
dante2010xxx wrote:
Companies need to be held accountable for issues like this when they arise.



We have a social justice warrior here. There's no uproar because nobody else notices it. Everyone's DNA is unique.


I notice these things. They annoy me. They often lend to me not buying a product. I'd already moved from pre-ordering TLN to cancelling it and waiting a bit. This has fully moved me into the "skip it" category now that I know integration with my existing DoW will be so poor.

I won't uproar about it, I just won't buy it.

Thanks to the OP for bringing it up. You did me a service.
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Mark Johnson
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OP: Can you post a picture?
 
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Jean-Philippe Thériault
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dante2010xxx wrote:
XDarkAngelX wrote:
As someone who has studied vision (human and computer) as part of his computer science Masters degree, I have to say, anytime components from a game and its expansion have color matching, it's probably more a function of the lack of accuracy of your vision than of the quality of the components.

Card sleeve companies can't even get their sleeves to match color between batches (you're lucky when they get to match between two packs that got produced and shipped in the same batch). People need to start seriously downgrading their expectations when it comes to color matching products made years apart in completely different factories and conditions.


How come many other companies that produce expansions seem to be able to get it correct then? I've only witnessed this issue with one other expansion, and that was Takenoko Chibis. Any other expansion I own that has cards, the backing appears to be colour matched enough that you would not be able to determine when a card from the expansion is on top.


As i said: this is more a factor of your own vision's individual limitations. Each individual's ability to tell colors apart is unique. At best, a company can work on making sure that statistically more people will fail to notice the color difference.
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Brian Heath

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I'm not OP, but here's a quick pic I took. TLN cards are on the left, originals on the right, bottom cards are opposites for comparison.

Under the flash, I can see a slight difference in hue, but honestly I could barely tell in normal lighting. Unless you're playing under some crazy high lighting and laying the cards out flat on the table, I have a hard time believing it's going to make a difference in the game.
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Andrew Kapish
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Jason
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Personally, I see a very BIG difference in hue. One set is almost grayscale, another has a blue tint. I will grant, however, that lighting and monitor differences can make this hard to evaluate over the internet.

I will say that I prefer to play games where you have to read a lot of card text in as much lighting as possible. Not sure if that qualifies as "crazy high lighting" or not.
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Trevor S.
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SDSUChemTA wrote:
dante2010xxx wrote:
Companies need to be held accountable for issues like this when they arise.



We have a social justice warrior here. There's no uproar because nobody else notices it. Everyone's DNA is unique.


I noticed it and didn't like it.
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Brian Heath

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jepmn wrote:
I will say that I prefer to play games where you have to read a lot of card text in as much lighting as possible. Not sure if that qualifies as "crazy high lighting" or not.


Before using the flash, with good lighting at my game table, the difference was minimal. With the flash in the pic, there's absolutely a noticeable difference. I agree that it's unfortunate the cards are not spot-on, but I'm not sure how much of a difference it will make in gameplay.

TLN cards have plenty of the "default" cards mixed in (food, fuel, books, junk, etc.) That is, are you going to say "I believe that's a TLN card, so I'm more likely to take it"? Or "that guy has 3 TLN cards, so they must be good"? The latter assuming the other player has his cards fanned out so you can easily see all the backs.

Actually in terms of color differences, it's much more noticeable in in the other decks - the Secret Objectives, Exile, and Characters.
 
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Chemist .
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My group has not brought this up. We are too busy playing the actual game and reading the front of the card, instead of staring at the back of the cards.
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Bill Reed
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I don't understand why it matters.
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Trevor S.
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wmreed wrote:
I don't understand why it matters.


It's not as if I came onto the boards to complain, and I don't know if it will affect any future game play, so in a way you are right, it doesn't really matter. I just would have liked to have matching backs. I don't know if my vision is all that, or if I happen to actually have a minor misprint.
 
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Lee Schmitz
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I can understand being a little disappointed, but it in no way breaks the game. We personally haven't noticed yet, but also haven't tried to combine the games. There is enough in TLN to keep us busy as it is, and as others have mentioned, combining the two can lead to watering down the game, although like I said, I haven't done it myself to comment.

I think the biggest frustration is comments like "...my game now has a flaw in it, put there by the company". This indicates you believe that Plaid Hat purposely and maliciously did this. I find comments with these sorts of implications to come across as entitled and arrogant. Again, as I said, it is disappointing, and it is totally ok if you are extremely frustrated. You have every right to be, and you have every right to not play the game.

Remember when it comes to small publishers, cost matters, as does turn around time for a product. I'd rather have a DOW expansion that is very slightly off than no expansion at all.
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Ian Armstrong
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jepmn wrote:
SDSUChemTA wrote:
dante2010xxx wrote:
Companies need to be held accountable for issues like this when they arise.



We have a social justice warrior here. There's no uproar because nobody else notices it. Everyone's DNA is unique.


I notice these things. They annoy me. They often lend to me not buying a product. I'd already moved from pre-ordering TLN to cancelling it and waiting a bit. This has fully moved me into the "skip it" category now that I know integration with my existing DoW will be so poor.

I won't uproar about it, I just won't buy it.

Thanks to the OP for bringing it up. You did me a service.


You are welcome. Glad I was able to bring it up to another potential buyer that would have shared the same aggravation as I do.
 
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Ian Armstrong
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Leedguitar wrote:
I can understand being a little disappointed, but it in no way breaks the game. We personally haven't noticed yet, but also haven't tried to combine the games. There is enough in TLN to keep us busy as it is, and as others have mentioned, combining the two can lead to watering down the game, although like I said, I haven't done it myself to comment.

I think the biggest frustration is comments like "...my game now has a flaw in it, put there by the company". This indicates you believe that Plaid Hat purposely and maliciously did this. I find comments with these sorts of implications to come across as entitled and arrogant. Again, as I said, it is disappointing, and it is totally ok if you are extremely frustrated. You have every right to be, and you have every right to not play the game.

Remember when it comes to small publishers, cost matters, as does turn around time for a product. I'd rather have a DOW expansion that is very slightly off than no expansion at all.


I'm entitled and arrogant because I expect a new set of cards meant to be used with an older set to have matching coloured backs? I really don't understand the push back on the fact that I've brought this up as an issue with the expansion. It is something that bothers me, and I feel it will detract from the gameplay. If your eyes are setup to see the proper colour set, then yippee for your great genes.

I guess I don't understand who is actually responsible for the error. It was my understanding that Plaid Hat would have received at least one copy of the game before it went to full scale printing. Do they not have any responsibility for doing QA on the game before it's set to the printers? Or is it the printer that is to blame here? Regardless it's a Plaid Hat game, so IMO they are the first point of contact for this issue.

I also wouldn't call Plaid Hat Games a small company, seeing as they got bought by F2Z last year. I think they have the resources available now to get the best possible copies of their games created.

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