$5.00
$20.00
$15.00
$30.00
Recommend
1 
 Thumb up
 Hide
11 Posts

Food Chain Magnate» Forums » General

Subject: Broken Guru? rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Benson Propst
United States
Michigan
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
I was wondering if the FCM community wanted to weigh in on their thoughts about the Guru's ability being too powerful to the point of "breaking" the game. I haven't played enough to know, but I know it is a conversation that has come up a few times in my local gaming group.

I'll sit back and listen.

Thanks everyone for your thoughts.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Josiah Henn
United States
Seattle
Washington
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
I do not think so, no. However the nature of this game is that unless most players are experienced, many things (the guru just being one and IMO a minor offender) are usually too late to stop after you notice it. Basically you have to get crushed by a combo (super fast radio, a blocked off street corner with luxury manager that no one can get into, etc) before you realize you can't let players get that far. And you should really just call the game when they do. The games of FCM I enjoy the most are when all the players keep each other in check and it plays fairly tactically. However, in practice, most games tend to end with someone getting away with an uber combo and then there's nothing that can be done about it. None of these are unbalanced, but often in multiplayer, if you are the person who "keeps others honest" (while others don't bother and pursue their own combos), you are usually just playing kingmaker, destroying your own relative victory prospects in an effort to "police".

I've played this game over 50 times now. It was initially a 10, though now I have moved it to a 7. I still love the design and marriage of theme and mechanics that I think Splotter does so well, as well as straightforward but deep rulebooks. Unfortunately, I'm finding their titles tend to have more of a preference for well-balanced pre-planned archetypes (the so-called multiple paths to victory that is quite popular with many) than I like. I tend to be more attracted to a toolbox, "have at it", style as of late.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
United States
Aventura
Florida
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb

I don't think the Guru is all that great. I typically go for a Coach instead when I get the First to Train milestone. If I don't get First to Train I'll aim for First to Pay 20 in Salaries and have the same or better training capacity than the Guru player usually only one turn after he got it. In that event my position is much better cause I got a bunch of other milestones while he only got First to Train and not much else.

Beginners are predictably very inefficient, which benefits the Guru approach because it has more time to come together. The more experienced players are the less powerful the Guru becomes.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jeffrey Speer
United States
Fargo
North Dakota
flag msg tools
Gravity Falls
badge
Remember, reality is an illusion, the universe is a hologram, buy gold, bye!
mbmbmbmbmb
Keep on playing - it's not bad with more experience.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Isaac Marx
United States
Arlington
Massachusetts
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
verandi wrote:

I don't think the Guru is all that great. I typically go for a Coach instead when I get the First to Train milestone. If I don't get First to Train I'll aim for First to Pay 20 in Salaries and have the same or better training capacity than the Guru player usually only one turn after he got it. In that event my position is much better cause I got a bunch of other milestones while he only got First to Train and not much else.

Beginners are predictably very inefficient, which benefits the Guru approach because it has more time to come together. The more experienced players are the less powerful the Guru becomes.

If someone goes for Guru straight out of the gate how can you possibly get the First to Pay 20 in Salaries one turn later?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
United States
Aventura
Florida
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
imarx wrote:

If someone goes for Guru straight out of the gate how can you possibly get the First to Pay 20 in Salaries one turn later?


The earliest someone can use a Guru is turn 5. Here's a game where I got the First to Pay 20 in Salaries on turn 5:

http://play.boardgamecore.net/fcm/2868

But I do stand corrected, I usually get it on turn 6, like these games:

http://play.boardgamecore.net/fcm/12570

http://play.boardgamecore.net/fcm/11833

http://play.boardgamecore.net/fcm/6130

Same difference, the point being someone who goes for Guru straight out of the gate gets First to Train but misses out on nearly all the other early game milestones, while the First to Pay 20 has been picking up a bunch of them- just look at those games, I got 9-10 milestones before getting First to Pay 20!
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Sonny Blount
New Zealand
flag msg tools
out to lunch
badge
same place I eat at
mbmbmbmbmb
If anyone over-markets (which usually happens when there are inexperienced players in the game) the Guru is in trouble.

They need the game to move slowly.

Put in $100, open with double Recruiting Girls and keep the marketing moving and you will often beat the Guru player/s.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Tim Koppang
United States
Westmont
Illinois
flag msg tools
designer
publisher
"It's a magical world, Hobbes, ol' buddy..."
badge
"For the listener, who listens in the snow, and, nothing himself, beholds nothing that is not there and the nothing that is." -- Wallace Stevens
mbmbmbmbmb
gameon39481 wrote:
Unfortunately, I'm finding their titles tend to have more of a preference for well-balanced pre-planned archetypes (the so-called multiple paths to victory that is quite popular with many) than I like. I tend to be more attracted to a toolbox, "have at it", style as of late.

Can you expand on this a bit more? I haven't played 50 times, but in my experience (a little over a dozen plays) FCM resists a straightforward "paths to victory" approach. Rather there is always a great deal of player interdependency that necessitates a flexible strategy. I'm guessing you think that interdependency is overstated in the long-run?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Josiah Henn
United States
Seattle
Washington
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
tckoppang wrote:
gameon39481 wrote:
Unfortunately, I'm finding their titles tend to have more of a preference for well-balanced pre-planned archetypes (the so-called multiple paths to victory that is quite popular with many) than I like. I tend to be more attracted to a toolbox, "have at it", style as of late.

Can you expand on this a bit more? I haven't played 50 times, but in my experience (a little over a dozen plays) FCM resists a straightforward "paths to victory" approach. Rather there is always a great deal of player interdependency that necessitates a flexible strategy. I'm guessing you think that interdependency is overstated in the long-run?


I think that's the ideal way it plays out, and I really enjoy the games that do. But there are maps where you have 2+ houses in a closed off area and if two people don't both start there (if there's even room for two), the one who does can cordon it off with gardens and a luxury manager uncontested. But even if there is room to squeeze in there and keep them honest all you do is ensure your mutual destruction (because you leave the entire rest of the board to the other players).

Similarly, with the ever popular radio tower blitz. You can hurt yourself by forcing the price really low on whatever is the super-good to where you don't really even get a profit, but you're just helping someone else who ignores it entirely and fulfills another good in some corner or even just sends 10 waitresses to work over and over while you and the radio player have a standoff for goods priced at -1 or -2 (before advertising). Not to mention to run behind them and anticipate the super-good you have to likely leave slots free that could be better used otherwise.

Those are the two I see almost every game, but there are other more rare ones too. Anyway, I don't want to drag this thread down into a discussion of these things. I'm sure there are a million people who disagree and honestly I don't want anyone to enjoy the game less. If your group's games are fun, please keep playing and ignore any non-fun group think! Honestly, I don't even subscribe to this game, I only posted here because I'm subscribed to Benson and wanted to give him my opinion.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Glaucio Siqueira
Brazil
Rio de Janeiro
RJ
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
I don't usually play beginner's variants; But I made that mistake with FCM... You don't have to pay salaries so you can train people to death. The guru is really broken in that case.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
kalvin connor
United States
rochester
New York
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
I personally have been going coach. If I want a guru after, I have that option and its only a turn later than it would have been anyways.

For me, I generally go up the management track and get the ability to have a 10 people under 1 card. Either way I look at it, I need 2 times train to get up there. So, if I wait a turn for guru, I have to wait an even further turn to get the card I want. Plus, you can have more than 1 coach anyways.

Either way, my suggestion is RG+T+First to pay 20 in salaries. All the trains man, all the trains
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.