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Subject: Grand Warlord Voss - Genebound General Promo rss

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Michael Hunter
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Final version is here





Hi folks! Next in my Villain promo project (and one who may or may not have being fighting the Executor and the Pantheon a lot as part of my other projects) is Grand Warlord Voss. As usual, pros and cons!

Pros
The parts of the deck all work well together, a ton of indvidually kind of weak minions, but with officers to buff them, translocaters to bring them in and forced deployment to bring them back, really feels like an army.

The gene-bound are individually nice designs - I like in particular how they're all kind of the same (end of turn attack, immune to something) making them easy to keep track of on the board, but that gives them just enough room to each have their own clear flfavour.



Cons
Another paper-scissors-rock boss, in this case with regards to AoE. If you don't have fair bit of it the starting minions will beat you down fast. If you have, say, Tempest with Hail storm and Electrical storm then all the minions might as well be damaging one-shots. Hard to get the feel of an army leader when under certain circumstances the minions have such negligible effect.

Forced Deployment seems cool on paper (card?) but plays poorly. If you don't have a way to deal with it then it just dumps 9 minions on you, all of whom then attack and deal 40-odd damage halfway losing the game in one turn. There *is* a way to deal with it, but it relies on destroying the ongoing early in your turn and then having your AoE blow down the minions, but this is clunky - what if I don't have ongoing destruction? Or what if I do, but it happens to be on the last player? I really hate losing a game just because the guy playing Visionary happened to want to sit nearer to the heater.

Overall flow of the fight is a bit erratic - Voss frontloads with a ton of minions, but generally in a turn or two they're blown away and he is just sitting there, mostly playing one minion a turn, which is boringly easy, or occasionally playing a Forced Deployment which is crushingly hard. Much like regular Chairman after his underbosses are dead it's a very random "if he doesn't play one of his non crap cards in the next 3 turns we win without a sweat, if he does we all die".

The flip effect I like the idea of philosophically - it's a balancing tool, when his minions are large and in charge he doesn't do much, but when the minions are down (i.e the players are winning) he starts to fight back. However in practice he spends almost the entire game on the back side.

So, to address these...



Making Minions Not Be AoE fodder: Modifying an idea from my Matriarch variant (which I stole from Pepe, who himself stole it from the_yoshi, who I believe received it in a vision from the Archangel Gabriel), the minions move next to a player. They both stop the player from easily hurting Voss (this replaces his normal reduction based on number of minions) and themselves can only be easily hurt by that player. Note the reduction is only -1, so AoE can still be useful (External combustion for example does quite well), but it stops pingy AoE like Cold Snap, Squall and Accelerated assault from being ultimate.

With the Matriarch I had some clunky text telling you who to put where, but elegantly the Gene-Bound all have their own conditions anyway, their varied end of turn damage effects (quite a few highest HP, a few lowest HP, a most cards and a couple of all targets which basically means the players choice). Note that Gene Bound Guards do not engage (as they do no damage), which makes this super irritating guy able to be hit by the whole team, and thank god for that.

This makes the minions much more interesting and dynamic, they jump on random(ish) players and make it their problem, so you can't have one designated AoE'r to deal with them all, everyone has to fight their own battles. Nor can you ignore them and focus on Voss easily, but if a particular player has no minion problems that turn he can leave his friends to their fight and go for the boss.

Pace of Battle: A single minion play is a weak, weak thing. So now when the first card is a minion he has a good chance to bring friends - in a 4 player game 2-3 is standard. Combined with them being tougher to deal with because of engaging, this means that a minion turn is not a minor footnote as you continue blasting Voss, it's a interesting little problem to deal with (and not inconsiderable damage). This keeps Voss much more interesting turn to turn, rather just being filler before a spaceship/force deployment.

Note there is a slight cycle here - as you play more and more minions the villain deck has less and less, making you more likely to play one of his non-minion cards until eventually Forced Deployment causes you to shuffle everything back and resets the cycle.

Forced Deployment: This has been through a lot of iterations, many of which got really complex to put in the Card Changes box. However I eventually realized that I didn't have a good idea for the flip side, to just combine the two. This means I have the whole flip side to write out what Forced Deployment does, keeping text down.

Basically, when Voss Forcedly Deploys he becomes invulnerable (and non aggressive) for a turn while his minions rain down. Each player gets a minion by them (this is the only way Guards can engage, incidentally) and the players (with no Voss) tend to spend the turn swatting away at these minions. Voss generally fares better after this turn, he hasn't been hurt and often a minion or two is left alive - they are even harder to deal with than normal because AoE is extra weak - when the first player does their thing the last minions haven't shown up yet!

Earlier versions just played a bunch of minions, but this didn't feel very special - here a key tactical difference is that although you are getting a LOT of minions, they don't attack THAT turn, you have the round to try and deal with them.

Minor change: Quark Drive translocator used to exist to make a single minion play be less pathetic - now that they come in teams that job no longer exists, and it gets confusing with the current minion rule (do I play the top card before or after I do the reveal for minions thing?), so now it just returns a single minion from the trash (the bottom minion by design so it's not the same one over and over).




Quite happy with this Voss but as ever playtesting will continue for another week or so. He feels much less spiky in his output, minions aren't AoE bait that do minimal damage, and Forced Deployment isn't the grim reaper. The Minions in particular are way more dynamic becuase of how they engage, you have to make interesting prioritization decisions each and every turn, rather than just saying "Is our Tempest player in the room and sober?"

Few features I'm not quite sold on and would appreciate suggestions...
-I'm not thrilled about Gene-Bound guards being able to engage in Forced Deployment, having them being -2 damage from all but one player is pretty cloying for such an annoying target, and if he lands by a weenie like say Argent Adept who doesn't do anything himself can be a pain - and unlike regular minions he won't hit someone else and thus move away.

-Moving the minions around the table makes it obvious who engaged who BUT it also means you can't use left-right order as a way to remember who is the oldest minion for the purpose of triggers. I've found there don't tend to be more than 2-3 any given turn so we can remember without too much trouble, but it's something to be aware of.

-The "When a villain card would be played" on the Forced deployment is a bit of a crutch. Normally, he doesn't play any cards anyway (his play is what flips him, and he flips back on the start of his next turn) but due to Rook City and Atlantis and so on it is possible he would play a card. Mostly that'd be fine, but what if he plays a Forced Deployment? Seemed easier to give him something else rather than figure out what that would do, but open to options here. Might be easier to just have the Card Changes say "Forced deployment : Discard this instead and play the top card of the villain deck".

-Sub Zero atmosphere REALLY wrecks him, the Gene-Bound don't hit, which already is very good, but they also don't ENGAGE, which is their main defense. It's only one card on a pretty weak overall hero, so it's probably not worth the text to make a specific rule to prevent, but worth remembering.

-In the same vein, if the Gene-Bound doesn't actually deal damage (Flesh to Iron, Cocoon, Driving Mantis, what have you), they don't move. Is there a way to phrase it so they move to who they would've damaged, even if they don't?

As always, comments and criticisms welcomed!
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Take Walker
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Once again, a surprisingly interesting rethinking of a classic character. I've always appreciated Voss for his highly thematic "wade through the army" fight style, so I didn't think you could change that, but here you've made him more of a "Get them!" minions-versus-heroes personal fight, and that's just grand.

Adelphophage wrote:
-I'm not thrilled about Gene-Bound guards being able to engage in Forced Deployment, having them being -2 damage from all but one player is pretty cloying for such an annoying target, and if he lands by a weenie like say Argent Adept who doesn't do anything himself can be a pain - and unlike regular minions he won't hit someone else and thus move away.

You could always disengage all minions when Voss flips back to his front side. They'll attack that turn and reengage anyway, but it means the Guards harass the heroes for fewer turns, making his flipside more of a headache, depending.

Adelphophage wrote:
-Sub Zero atmosphere REALLY wrecks him, the Gene-Bound don't hit, which already is very good, but they also don't ENGAGE, which is their main defense. It's only one card on a pretty weak overall hero, so it's probably not worth the text to make a specific rule to prevent, but worth remembering.

I seem to recall Voss being one of the villains SZA is really good against anyway. I wouldn't worry about it too much.

Adelphophage wrote:
-In the same vein, if the Gene-Bound doesn't actually deal damage (Flesh to Iron, Cocoon, Driving Mantis, what have you), they don't move. Is there a way to phrase it so they move to who they would've damaged, even if they don't?

"Would deal damage to a hero target" is probably the phrase you're looking for?
 
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Geoff B.
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The reduction when next to heroes is going to be problematic with the Guards, as the minions can still hit all targets.

Also the all-target minions will move every time they deal damage, meaning as they deal end of turn damage they will jump next to every hero target before sticking with the one they deal damage to last.

The sides don't seem all that different, as on the front you will get less than (H), and on the back get (H) but with delayed effect. The only other difference is that Guards can be played next to heroes on the back, but not on the front, and Voss heals.

His back also has no way to flip him to his front side, and his ships and officers will never enter play.

So an early Forced Deployment locks the game into the second side for the rest of the game.

This also means that once the deck is just ships, officers and forced deployment the game stops and Voss just sits there, unable to play cards and reveals never finding minions.

Even if you are discarding the revealed cards (doesn't specify) once the deck is empty revealing won't ever cause a reshuffle and he doesn't play cards so the deck will sit empty while you try to beat on a Voss who is invulnerable.

Having a villain not play cards ends up fueling a Spite-like play style even when the mechanical errors get fixed. You know what will happen, so you just choose a team that works for the inevitable game state or you don't play that villain.
 
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Christopher Webb
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Phantaskippy wrote:


His back also has no way to flip him to his front side, and his ships and officers will never enter play.

So an early Forced Deployment locks the game into the second side for the rest of the game.


I missed it at first too, but the flip side of Voss actually causes him to flip back at the start of the Villain turn. He will flip back after one turn of Forced Deployment.

Also, Skippy has a point with the AoE minions jumping around. You may want to "change that to the FIRST time EACH minion deals damage per round..."

Overall, I like the concept. He's a very interesting version of Voss that could really play out far more consistently. I have to admit, I never liked playing against Voss without Tempest. He's just too useful in that fight to ignore and the fight becomes almost child's play with him. This version puts a big damper on just picking up AoE and being done with him.

As for the issue of maintaining the order of the attacks from minions, you may want to consider abandoning the standard order and just change it so that instead of all the minions acting on the end of the villain turn they instead act at the end of the turn of the play area they are in. Then, they can only perform their card text once per round and you don't have a minion repeating himself on the first time he's out. (or you may want that to make Voss overall more difficult, IDK).


Edit: In order to keep the guards of people you could make it so that minions only stay engaged with a given hero until the start of the next villain turn, but that would end up with a lot more moving and my solution for resolving combat order wouldn't work.

Also, regarding when a minion fails to do any damage to a target (and as such does not engage) I think it's ok that they don't engage for not dealing damage. That kinda represents a hero's defense being so strong that the minion couldn't get any ground or footing in against him and as such is left open.

Anyway, keep up the good work!
 
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Take Walker
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Rosgath wrote:
Also, Skippy has a point with the AoE minions jumping around. You may want to "change that to the FIRST time EACH minion deals damage per round..."

Seconding this.
 
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Do you want minions whizzing around all over the place, switching all the time? Or engaging with one hero then sticking there?

Otherwise, "When a non-engaged minion deals a hero target damage" would fix it, right?
 
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P.D. Magnus
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TakeWalker wrote:
Rosgath wrote:
Also, Skippy has a point with the AoE minions jumping around. You may want to "change that to the FIRST time EACH minion deals damage per round..."

Seconding this.


It's not really a big deal. If a Frosthound (or whatever) is going to hit all hero targets, the players just have to decide who is hit last. The order beyond that doesn't matter.

Change the rule, and players have to decide who is hit first. Not much different.

bacon I noticed that the instructions for moving minions say "character" on the back but "target" on the front, and I was going to say that they should be the same. Instead, I recommend just removing that text from the back. The back of Voss' card doesn't need instructions for moving minions except in weird edge cases, because he'll flip at the start of the turn and minions will attack at the end of the turn.

bacon It would be simpler to just remove Quark Drive Translocator during setup.

Quote:
The "When a villain card would be played" on the Forced Deployment [back side] is a bit of a crutch.


The back side of the villain character card shouldn't have the same name as a card in the deck.

You can clean up the interaction by also having a card change for the Forced Deployment (card) on the back.
 
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Maciej Stępiński
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Quote:
The back side of the villain character card shouldn't have the same name as a card in the deck.

You can call the flipped side "Forcibly Deploying"
 
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Michael Hunter
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A lot of great feedback here, so I'll take it one by one...

Regarding the way that minions engage, firstly I'm not too fussed on the effect of the AoE minions - as was pointed out they do indeed engage everyone then stay on the final hero, but as engaging doesn't mean anything during the villain turn they basically just end up on the hero of your choice and you can ignore the intermediate targets. I can see this being a pain in the computer version, but for a variant that's going to only be on card doesn't seem an issue. Having said that, adding "first time" to the card would be a trivial increase in length and wouldn't really change anything substantial so it's fine either way.

Greylag's idea (only non-engaged minions can move) would also work, but I think I prefer the minions to move from target to target. I've had times when a support hero who can't do much damage themselves (Parse, Havoc, Adept...) gets a few minions on them and can't do much about it, it would be very annoying if they just stayed there for the rest of the game, if they move there's a chance someone else can deal with them next turn. I might try this one a couple of times, though, to see if it does play fine - get back to you on this.

Note sure I quite understand the model where they activate at the end of the hero turn. Say a minion gets played on Voss's turn, hits someone, engages them. On that heroes turn, assuming the hero doesn't kill them, they hit again in one round? Also, if we're sticking with the version where they can change targets once engaged, couldn't they in theory jump to a target later in turn order and activate again (admittedly, against assuming they haven't died)?

Regarding getting the guards out of engagement, Rosgath suggested having the minions all disengage at the start of villain turn. This would work, but I probably prefer TakeWalker's idea about having the minions all disengage when he flips back - this is after the only time guards could potentially engage and saves some busy work most turns. As a result, if the Guard-engaging thing only happens for the Forced deployment turn it becomes a fun short-term annoying them that might happen from time to time to throw spanners in your works, rather than a turn after turn pain in the ass. Will incorporate this, thanks! Also, will probably use "Would deal damage..." as the trigger.




Regarding the Forced Deployment Side

Firstly as Rosgath said, he does flip back at the start of his next turn so he only spends one turn (at a time, at least) in Forced Deployment. The turn does play quite differently, as normally on a minion turn he'll play 1.6/2.3/3ish minions, vs 3/4/5, almost double the normal number, plus due to the slow way they come out they're more irritating to kill - he generally profits 2ish minions on one of these turns.

Good point about not saying what happens to the other revealed cards - should be discard, I'll add that in.

Pdmagnus pointed out I have inconsistent card text for engaging on the back side, which I'll fix. I can't take the text of the back entirely as although the NEW minions don't deal damage, it's entirely possible you have some left over from previous turns who still need to deal their damage and engage.

Name for the Flip side could be "Lead from the Rear?" - Forcible Deploying seems a bit on the nose




Finally regarding Quark-Drive Translocator, I could take it out, but I don't mind the way it currently works as a slow but steady minion source - seems to add a bit of variety for not a huge amount of text. Still, not the end of the world if it goes.




Thanks for the feedback all, will continue to fine-tune this bad boy!
 
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Jonathan Richardson
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Flipped side names:

- Reinforcements Inbound
- Master of Thousands
- Aggressive Advance
- Press the Advantage
- Overwhelming Force
- Tactical Genius


I think you should use the "At the start of the Villain turn, return all Engaged minions to the Villain play area, following player turn order." text on both the front and flip side. This way it not only deals with GB Guards, but also having to figure out witch engaged minions entered play first. Yes, their turn order still shuffles, but at least it's not confusing. Just my thoughts on it.

 
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Christopher Webb
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Adelphophage wrote:

Name for the Flip side could be "Lead from the Rear?" - Forcible Deploying seems a bit on the nose


Or you could go with "Driving them forward". My understanding of the Genebound is that they are only barely, if even that, sane. Odds are that messing with their genetics to make them the 'ultimate army' hasn't left them with a lot of initiative either.
 
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Michael Hunter
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Still testing a bunch, happy with H=4 but H=3 and H=5 aren't quite as good, might need tweaking to base HP.

Have had issues with the two Thorathians, they're now pretty weak cards by comparison to everything else, it's sad when they buff the troops, yet on the turn they are played don't tend to have anyone bar Voss to buff - now the playing a first villain card effect is triggered when it is a Minion OR a Thorathian. Note that Thorathians aren't played when they're one of the H-2, just when they're the first one out.
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Take Walker
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My votes lie with "Lead from the Rear", "Driving Them Forward" and "Overwhelming Force".
 
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Jonathan Richardson
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Adelphophage wrote:
Have had issues with the two Thorathians, they're now pretty weak cards by comparison to everything else, it's sad when they buff the troops, yet on the turn they are played don't tend to have anyone bar Voss to buff - now the playing a first villain card effect is triggered when it is a Minion OR a Thorathian. Note that Thorathians aren't played when they're one of the H-2, just when they're the first one out.


Yeah, I was wondering if that had come up as an issue in your test games.
 
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Michael Hunter
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Have done some more playing regarding the trigger for engaging...

Tried the "when an unengaged minion..." version - this worked fine mechanically, but felt odd - the firesworn is engaged with me, yet he is somehow hitting my friend? Probably not going to use this.

Tried minions only moving on the first damage each turn, rather than every - functionally has very little difference, you still essentially get to choose where Frosthounds/Psi-Weavers go, but it's not much longer to write and does result in less busywork, so going with this.

As for the way to disengage Gene Bound Guards, tried both everyone disengaging at the start of every turn vs disengaging when Voss flips. Former meant very little gameplay wise - you move them out, then generally immediately back in and took up space on the card, whereas the flip one does it only when it might matter, so sticking with that.

Currently like Overwhelming Force for the flip side.

Also, still a bit up in the air on Quark Drive - My version does a decent job, plays well in the deck and gives a bit more variety to Voss's turns, which is always a good thing. On the other hand, it is more text on the villain card and is a change to card text, which I try to avoid as much as possible unless strictly necessary (*cough*Miss Information*cough*. Thoughts?
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Take Walker
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When you first started doing these promos, I was a little put off by the card text changes, but I've since gotten used to them. I'd defer to "is it too much text?"
 
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Geoff B.
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I actually like Translocator's original form with this card, because on the front it can't do more than one card play, and on the forced deployment side it becomes the nastiest card ever, which is cool. It gives that card a big scary place in the deck, because you really don't want it to be out when Forced Deployment comes up.

If you are okay with that one in its original form you could ditch the change to forced deployment and instead use the Gloom Spite style wording:

"When Forced deployment would enter play discard it instead and flip Grand Warlord Voss's Character card."

Then on the back (since it could be played with Translocator)

"When Forced Deployment would enter play shuffle it into the villain deck and play the top card instead."

Of course to make this work you'd need to drop the heal instead of playing cards text.

If he's going to flip right back the forced deployment-esque side should be really nasty.

To deal with Guards, add to the front side:

"When Grand Warlord Voss flips to this side, return all engaged targets to the villain play area."
Then they will all re-engage when they deal damage.

I'd also move the front side reveal for minions to the end of his turn, that way you don't get multiple minions one round, and Tamar all by herself the next.

Lastly, I think the HP based on (H) is a mistake. unlike other villains, Voss is dealing more damage, playing more cards, and thus adding more minion health with higher (H) values.

Against 3 heroes this Voss is actually going to be quite easy. Another major balancing factor of Voss is the amount of all target damage he deals, which naturally balances for (H).
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Matt Onyx
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Phantaskippy wrote:
add to the front side:

"When Grand Warlord Voss flips to this side, return all engaged targets to the villain play area."
Then they will all re-engage when they deal damage

This would also return hero targets (including character cards), wouldn't it?
 
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Christopher Webb
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mattonyx wrote:
Phantaskippy wrote:
add to the front side:

"When Grand Warlord Voss flips to this side, return all engaged targets to the villain play area."
Then they will all re-engage when they deal damage

This would also return hero targets (including character cards), wouldn't it?


Very true. Make it "engaged minions" and it works just fine.
 
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Michael Hunter
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Phantaskippy wrote:
I actually like Translocator's original form with this card, because on the front it can't do more than one card play, and on the forced deployment side it becomes the nastiest card ever, which is cool. It gives that card a big scary place in the deck, because you really don't want it to be out when Forced Deployment comes up.


This is quite a good point, I might give it a few goes. When Translocator is out Voss can play a minion (which means it'll do something), a Thorathian (which will likely show up with some minion buddies, thus the Translocator will probably do something), Forced Deployment (OH GOD NO!) or a spaceship (where the Translocator won't do anything, but it's still not a fun turn).

My main worry was that it might get a bit confusing as to how the triggers nest - do you play the top card before the revealing-for-minions thing? I would say no, as the villain card takes effect before the Translocator, but seems like it could confuse people a little. Still, I do like this change of yours (the change of course being not changing it), will give it a spin.

Phantaskippy wrote:
If you are okay with that one in its original form you could ditch the change to forced deployment and instead use the Gloom Spite style wording:

"When Forced deployment would enter play discard it instead and flip Grand Warlord Voss's Character card."

Then on the back (since it could be played with Translocator)

"When Forced Deployment would enter play shuffle it into the villain deck and play the top card instead."

Of course to make this work you'd need to drop the heal instead of playing cards text.

The gaining HP thing was a crutch to avoid double forced deployment weirdness, I have no problem getting rid of it. Thanks!

Phantaskippy wrote:
I'd also move the front side reveal for minions to the end of his turn, that way you don't get multiple minions one round, and Tamar all by herself the next.

Not quite sure what you mean by this - the minion enters play during the normal play step, then at EoT if a minion entered we go looking for further ones? Seems cleaner to do it at the same time as the regular play.

Also, not quite sure how moving it to the end of the turn would stop Thorathians arriving without friends (although as mentioned above, currently Thorathians will trigger more minions to possibly be played)


Phantaskippy wrote:
Lastly, I think the HP based on (H) is a mistake. unlike other villains, Voss is dealing more damage, playing more cards, and thus adding more minion health with higher (H) values.

Against 3 heroes this Voss is actually going to be quite easy. Another major balancing factor of Voss is the amount of all target damage he deals, which naturally balances for (H).


This is a fiddly one to fine-tune, but you may well be right, the problem at present is indeed that H=3 is a bit easy and H=5 is a bit hard. He deals a fair bit of all target or H based damage that scales well, and because of Psi-weaver and Frosthound (which deal all target damage AND are more likely to be played with higher H) he can actually deal more damage per player in higher H's.

Anyway, thanks for the feedback and ideas, Voss is getting better and better!
 
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Geoff B.
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Just brainstorming really.

I like this variant a lot, because it is really close in style to official variants.

Moving the reveal for minions away from the play a card phase of the turn isn't as important as untying the reveal from a minion being played.

I may be missing something, but the image on the original post says:

"The first time a minion is played in a turn, reveal. . . "

That won't trigger when Thorathians are played.

My suggestion would be:

"At the end of the villain turn, reveal the top (H)-2 cards of the villain deck. Play all revealed minions, and shuffle the other revealed cards into the villain deck."

That just makes it every turn, and gives you a chance for minions when any card but Forced Deployment is played. (because it will flip before the end of turn effect)
 
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Front side name suggestion: Voss, Matchmaker

More seriously, I did think it was interesting that you don't mention the spaceships in your pros/cons. While dealing with them is an interesting puzzle, they really skew the game if they're his first play. Whereas Forced Deployment doesn't become soul-crushing until later in the game, after you're able to clear minions with some regularity.
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Michael Hunter
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Phantaskippy wrote:


Moving the reveal for minions away from the play a card phase of the turn isn't as important as untying the reveal from a minion being played.

I may be missing something, but the image on the original post says:

"The first time a minion is played in a turn, reveal. . . "

That won't trigger when Thorathians are played.

My suggestion would be:

"At the end of the villain turn, reveal the top (H)-2 cards of the villain deck. Play all revealed minions, and shuffle the other revealed cards into the villain deck."

That just makes it every turn, and gives you a chance for minions when any card but Forced Deployment is played. (because it will flip before the end of turn effect)

Oh right, I misunderstood. I thought you meant to still tie it to a minion being played, just to move the effect till later in the turn - but you mean it triggers even if a QDT or ship is played.

Certainly could - although I would probably argue that QDT or especially ship turns are probably bad enough without a bunch of minions also showing up to ruin your party. Probably wouldn't make a huge difference either way, but I think I prefer the smoothing effect of only doing it on relatively weak turns. Still, I'll give it a go this way. It would have the advantage that QDT would proooobably do something the turn you played it, which is nice. Could potentially do it as "If no Ship was played this turn..." or maybe even "If there are no ships in play..."



Phantaskippy wrote:
I like this variant a lot, because it is really close in style to official variants.


Out of interest, when you say close in style I'm guessing you mean it doesn't have Card Changes like the majority of my other promos?
 
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Michael Hunter
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I would really hate to see the dating profile of a Psi-weaver. "Oozing, phallic worm with no distinguishable facial features seeks blind, deaf masochist"


Anyway, I've found when I'm fighting regular Voss that after the initial flurry of taking down his starting minions, most turns are just a "meh" of a random minion/lieutenant with no one to buff/QDT that's very unlikely to do anything before we kill it, with the ocassional "WE'RE ALL GOING TO DIE!" of Forced Deployment with 6+ minions in the trash.

Ships kind of struck a nice balance between these two, a challenging turn that is not Armageddon. They're tough and hard hitting no doubt, but they deal a bunch of damage (yet not as crazy as Forced Deployment damage) and take a bunch of damage - a challenge but not the end of the world.

On turn 1 they're certainly very harsh, but I find that fairly often against this Voss (who doesn't have especially high HP) they can sometimes be better than a minion turn, as they DON'T shield Voss and you can just ignore them to burn down a 30HPish Voss. I also like they're kind of a break from the way minions normally play, rather than everyone having to make sure they pick off little 3HP targets all the time you can just go all out for once.

As mentioned because of the way minions get moved out of the deck, they're unlikely to be played in the first turn (8%, I guess) but as the deck gets thinned of minions they are more likely to come out until a Forced Deployment shuffles back in and resets everything.
 
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Michael Hunter
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Okay, after much testing and helpful discussion from Forumites final version is up here and in the main thread.




From discussions above, engaged trigger ended up being "whenever a minion deals damage" - having it be "The first time each minion deals damage to a hero target each turn" got long and clunky without adding much. Also decided it was fine for them to not engage if their damage was not prevented somehow. Note that the original version said "Villain Target" including Voss and ships - this was not the intent, only minions were supposed to move, this has been fixed.

Flip side is now named "Overwhelming Force", and on this side if he somehow manages to play another Forced Deployment it just plays the next card of his deck. Also has a trigger when it flips back that moves any engaged targets (Gene-Bound Guards being the major problem) back to Voss's area.

Based on my tests, although he spams more minions at higher H, lower H is still a bit harder, so his HP is 50/60/70 - not a huge change but in my opinion makes for better gameplay (ships are particularly mean with low H).

Finally, went with Skippy's advice and kept Quark Drive Translocater as printed - although it does nothing on the turn you play it, it is still a decent 10HP that you really have to deal with at some point. Also decided to keep the playing extra minions trigger only when the first card is minion/Thorathian - on a ship turn you really don't need the extra minions to arrive for it to be challenging!


As always, thanks to the forum for error correction and mechanical advice!
 
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