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Subject: Started with Armada... Then went back to X-Wing... And stayed there. rss

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Michael Ptak
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Nearly every time I try X-Wing, the green dice remind me why the game disappoints. Blank-blank-focus and Poof! A thirty-plus point TIE Interceptor ace goes up in smoke with you unable to do much about it. In Armada, every defense token is a willing expenditure.

When you talk about walls of text on cards, I also look at what I would need to catch up in X-Wing from where I left off, and there are a lot of cards to get used to. The meta I left off on has changed significantly, and I don't think running old waves would be very functional "today".

Then I look at the expansion waves. Does Scum still dominate most of the expansion wave? Slots I would have expected the Empire and Rebellion to have equal share (or favoritism over a faction I really couldn't care less about?). Nope. More Scum ships, and Empire gets neither of the two Imperial ships I really want to see.

I'm fine driving Star Destroyers. At least I won't expect them to die instantly all because my dice went cold.
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Kyle
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The reason I have not been captivated by X-wing is the speed and easy play. I don't really want to spend a lot of money on a beer and pretzels game, I like the gravity Armada brings to the table.
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Phil Triest
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I owned X-Wing (a lot of it in the first 3 cycles) and happily sold it off. I, like others have mentioned, found the dice way too telling. Armada is a beautiful game. It is the only FFG title I am looking to keep at present with maybe TI3. The rest I'll happily part with. The whole game gives me the real feel of a proper Star Wars game. Personally I found X-Wing slow simulating a dog fight to be honest.
 
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Chris Montgomery
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There were two things that really turned me off of XW (I played only casually up to Wave 3 - one local tourney, too in there where I got creamed). The first was the *GOTCHA* upgrades and ships -- not merely bad pairings of ships, but ships that were just superior, and upgrades that basically made my TIE fighters useless. I hate games where you *have* to keep buying models to remain competitive. The second was how much the game punished you for not being able to judge distances. I got caught on an asteroid almost every game, usually that ship ended up dead before I could get off the thing - even though we're in a three-dimensional universe, the game acts like everything is on the same plane. And a weak third -- it didn't feel like the Star Wars universe to me.

In SW:Armada - it feels like the universe. Fighters don't get punished if they fly into ships - they fly through them, or hug the hull. Capital ships that fly into each other or asteroids cause damage - but they are slower and more subject to that type of thing. Upgrades can be awesome and devastating, but they hardly ever result in destroying 25-50% of your opponent's fleet (unless you've already been slugging away for a while). The objectives make the game more purposeful; they also make list-building more purposeful -- it's own little pre-game, sub-game.

In the end, though, it's just a matter of taste. XW was simply too light of a game, ultimately, for me. If I only have an hour to play a game, I'd rather play something else, and if I have more time, I'd rather play something else.
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Red Castle
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It's funny because for me it's the other way around.

I've been playing X-Wing since the the end of wave 1 (I got in when I saw the preview of the Millenium Falcon and thought to myself that even though I might never play the game, I must at least own the miniatures, which reminded me of when I collected Star Wars Micro Machine as a young kid). Found some friends that wanted to try and corrupted them and never stopped playing since.

Fast forward to when Armada went out, I bought the game because I was intrigued, but since all my friends already played X-Wing and didn't want to invest in a second miniature game, I played 1-2 small 300pts game and that was it, it was meant to stay on my shelf amassing dust.

Then, about 5-6 months ago, I decided that it was enough, I had to give Armada a real chance. I reread the rules, made a 400pts fleet and went to a Store Championship about 1h30 from home to really learn the game. I fell in love with it. When I got back home, I showed the game to a couple of player and now we have a small community. And the more I played Armada, the less I was inclined to play X-Wing.

If you give me the choice between the two, I'll pick Armada. It's not that X-Wing is not a great game, it's definetly one of the best game I ever played and I had so much fun playing it... maybe it's just that I'm a little burned out of it lately, and the new meta from wave 8 didn't helped, the game feel a little too much rock-paper-scisor for me these days. Hopefully wave 9 will change that.

All that to say that while you play less Armada to play X-Wing, I play less X-Wing to play Armada. So all is good and there is still a balance in the Force.
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Red Castle
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The beauty of each game is their respective feeling, they are very different.

In X-Wing, you feel like you are directly in the action. You are the pilot. You must make quick decision and anticipate where you're opponent will be next round. It's fast, it's gambling, it's an adrenaline rush.

In Armada, you feel like you are in control. You are the armchair commander. You see the theater deploying in front of you and must react accordingly while planning for 2-3 turns in advance (for command and line of sight). It's slower, it's more calculated, it's the satisfaction of getting your opponent into your trap.

So, where do you want to sit? In a starfighter cockpit directly in the action risking to get blown out every second; or in the Commanding chair, having the life of thousands in your hand?
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Rogue Knight
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To be honest, I love both games. It just depends on what my friends and I are looking for that day. And a couple of my friends only invest and have interest in X-Wing, while others prefer Armada. Or Rebellion, even.

I'm in a fortunate place where I have the disposable income to play both and not have to make a choice.

That being said, I'm not buying Wave 10 at all currently. Not one of those ships interests me. A rebel TIE, so what? A ship with 1 second of screen time that maybe gets to move backwards? I'll have to wait and see the preview. Kylo's Shuttle? I'm a bit interested in the new game mechanics, but I could care less about the ship. In the long run, I may buy the shuttle, maybe a slim chance for a quadjumper or two. Normally I buy much more. I'm also disappointed the ARC-170 only has unique pilots.

I'm noticing more and more of my interest is going toward Armada and I only play X-Wing for HotAC and when a friend organizes a game.
 
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Sean Conroy
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Armada is just not your game then man.

As a wargamer, the Armada setup and play time is speedy compared to a lot of other games I play or have played. Walls of text? Read a GMT games rule book and report back

I toy with the idea of getting some X-Wing stuff to have a zippy miniatures game, one day maybe, but capital ships are my first love and it's going to stay that way.
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Phil Triest
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Phuntom wrote:
Someone tell me, how is Armada doing there? Is it balanced? (Because of the length, I'll likely never be able to play enough games to find out on my own!)


Given I opted out of X-Wing at Wave 4 I'd say Armada has been more balanced throughout and has allowed more creativity with builds etc due to the admiral abilities. There was a stage when Ackbar owned more often than not in a capable player's hands but that has been brought back somewhat with the recent releases.
 
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Phuntom wrote:

Someone tell me, how is Armada doing there? Is it balanced? (Because of the length, I'll likely never be able to play enough games to find out on my own!)


I personally think that it is actually more balanced than X-Wing. There is no clear fleet archetype that everyone copy like they do in X-Wing with the current PalpAce or Dengaroo, or not so long ago Triple scouts, 4 TLT, Fat Han, etc. Last X-Wing Regional I went, there was in the Top 8: 4 Palp Ace, 2 Dengaroo, 1 Crackswarm and me (with an anti-meta build). That's actually what is starting to kill it for me. If I enter a tournament, I know I will face yet again one of the Netlist of the current wave, and then do it again, and again. If we see the same list over and over again win different tournaments, that's not my definition of a balanced game. The game is still a lot of fun and I had a blast at the last Regional, but powercreep found its way in.

In Armada, there is no archetype that everyone plays. Of course, some players will try to copy lists that won major tournaments, but in Armada, it's more about knowing how to fly your list than the list itself. I can currently play pretty much what I want and know that I have a chance if I come prepared. And I feel like every ship can play his part if you have a plan for it.
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Ian K
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darthain wrote:
I like the gravity Armada brings to the table.

Almost enough to offset the gravitational loss from your wallet to bring Armada to the table?

X-Wing has been taking more of my time recently - almost entirely because of the Heroes of the Aturi Cluster campaign (which is phenomenal, if you have not tried it yet!). Armada is still my go-to miniature combat game for strategic depth and epicness, but that campaign (HotAC) is everything I wanted in a miniature game.
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Kyle
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PuntSpeedchunk wrote:
darthain wrote:
I like the gravity Armada brings to the table.

Almost enough to offset the gravitational loss from your wallet to bring Armada to the table?


Cost is, effectively, a non-issue. I didn't buy in (was gifted core + ISD + a gift cert) so that lightened it a bit, but I specifically didn't buy in as I thought the game would grab me, hard, and it did...

I now have 2 corvette, 2 nebulon, 1 of each mc80, 1 MC30, 1 assault frigate, 2x fighter pack, 1 rogues/villains, 1 ISD, 1 VSD, 2 GSD, 1 raider, 1 interdictor... You get the hint

 
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Einar J Wetaas
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There are two kinds of people in the world. The one who follows and the one who lead.
X-wing though a Great game it still for people who like to keep it small and managble. Armada is the game for leaders.
So you x-wing pilots train in small skirmishes if you want. But be ready when I call you to battle.
When you see this admiral standing on the bridge as hordes of capital ships and thousands of fighters passing by your tiny ship.
You will be in awe....as your thoughts wandering an dreaming about beeing someone like that.....
And you know the answer that it will never happen because you are just a pilot who don't understand how to lead a real battle.

Star Wars Armada rules and will always be a better game than X-wing.
it requires more time better commanding and skill. It is for Admirals...and we don't play around we end the battles. :-) :-)
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Kyle
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gamer1701d wrote:
darthain wrote:
PuntSpeedchunk wrote:
darthain wrote:
I like the gravity Armada brings to the table.

Almost enough to offset the gravitational loss from your wallet to bring Armada to the table?


Cost is, effectively, a non-issue. I didn't buy in (was gifted core + ISD + a gift cert) so that lightened it a bit, but I specifically didn't buy in as I thought the game would grab me, hard, and it did...

I now have 2 corvette, 2 nebulon, 1 of each mc80, 1 MC30, 1 assault frigate, 2x fighter pack, 1 rogues/villains, 1 ISD, 1 VSD, 2 GSD, 1 raider, 1 interdictor... You get the hint



The Force is strong in you lol


FFG thinks so too
 
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Benjamin Tharin
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X-Wing is a turn by turn, frantic, short game.

Armada is a grand strategy game adressing a completely different type of player.

Having said that i find x-wing good but not great, to much clutter, to many obsolete ships, way to many waves. I almost wish for them to reboot it.
 
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Chris Montgomery
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Darkgalahad wrote:
. . . good but not great, too much clutter . . .


This is FFG we are talking about . . .
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Phil Triest
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gamer1701d wrote:
Say what you will but without the success of X-Wing there would be no Armada.

If Armada was all that great why didn't FFG lead with that game!

Simple, X-Wing rules because that is what the paying public wants.


X-Wing was the prototype and the lessons learnt in that have been put into Armada to make it the superior game. personally I am glad they did it the way they did as Armada is a much more complex game.
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Joel Carr
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I loved x-wing, but rarely played... so maybe i really loved the concept... I sold my large up to scum collection.. and really have not looked back, there was too much 'luck' in the dice rolls to my liking. that and keeping track of all the upgrades etc...

Armada has a permanent spot on my shelf. Yes the upgrades and keywords are starting to get a bit crazy... but the feel/pacing of the game for me is better... and it just looks dern cinematic... just like what I loved back in the early '80s. Not sure how much more I will 'buy' in, eventually I will grab wave 3, maybe wave 4, and at least the fighter packs for wave 5 and the corellian conflict(<- this has me most excited).

I think I most like the balance of the big ships and fighters, command stacking and movement ...

I played Halo fleet battles for a bit, and it had some fun in it, but it quickly went away as I missed the fighters from armada...


 
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Phil Triest
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Phuntom wrote:
Some nice comments here, I appreciate everyone's input.

It's not surprising that there are a lot of Armada defenders on the Armada forums of course.

But other than "more complex", and "I get to feel like a strategic commander", I haven't heard anything to really explain the advantages of Armada over X-awing.


I don't really care which game you prefer. Sounds like you want the entree and are happy sticking with it. You missed the points of epicness, scale, cinematic, elegance, balance, better design etc. Now this comment just seems extraneous (for lack of a better term) to say the least.
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philtrees wrote:
I don't really care which game you prefer. Sounds like you want the entree and are happy sticking with it. You missed the points of epicness, scale, cinematic, elegance, balance, better design etc. Now this comment just seems extraneous (for lack of a better term) to say the least.


I agree with Phil, I'm not sure anyone here is trying to convince you, or would even be able to do so, that Armada is better than X-Wing. Both are fun games. You seem to like X-Wing better and that's great.

I play both X-Wing and Armada. I like X-Wing but I love Armada - it just scratches all the right itches for me. There are many reasons why I prefer Armada over X-Wing (variety of fleet lists vs a heavily "net-decked" meta, the open-ended activation sequence, the shoot and move order of battle, the objective-focused fleet building, the slower movement arcs of ships/the maneuver tool), but if I had to pick only one it would be the way defense is handled.

In X-Wing, a single bad roll of green dice vs a hot roll of red dice on turn 1-2 can destroy your entire game plan. And this has nothing to do with skill or squad building - it's just plain luck. Sure, you can keep playing, but the rest of the match is just waiting for the inevitable.

Armada's built-in defense mechanic (and how you can choose upgrades and your dials to reinforce your defenses) puts the decision-making into the hands of the player, not the dice. Now it's about tactics, strategy and sacrifice. And to me that's not only a lot more fun, it's the hallmark of a better game.

Defense is a big part of both games and Armada does it better hands down. So, does that clearly explain one of the advantages of Armada over X-Wing now?
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Ian K
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I think the trick with X-Wing's "luck-o-the-dice" is to mitigate the role (or is that roll? ) of the dice in the game.

Your skill as a pilot (deduction = guessing your opponent's move, and spatial awareness = maneuvering your ship skillfully) can significantly (anecdotal evidence, I have no data) reduce how much the dice factor in the game. If your TIE/Int can effectively dodge your opponent's firing arc, then you won't ever have to worry about those red/green dice (sure, there are some cases in which you are going to be shot regardless of being in an arc). Sure, the random element of the dice can lead to streaks of feast or famine - but it should even out in the end.

That being said, Armada assumes your banks and banks of pew-pew devices are going to be reasonably accurate. I like that, too. It's more a case of knowing you will be hit - but how you deal with it and return kind that is quite rewarding.
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Kyle
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You keep coming back to play time, but see, they're are two sides to that coin, short games don't feel epic, they don't feel satisfying, and they are over before they really get going. Armada isn't even a long game, by any stretch. Very few short gave actually have the time to create anything resembling interesting space. <1.5 hours, is a short game.
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I'll just say that I'm glad this thread didn't turned into a silly fanwar because it could have easily happened. I'm glad to see that the Armada community is mature enough.

As for the topic, like I said earlier, both games are great. Clearly you've played both games enough to make your own conclusion so I don't see how we could change your mind. More importantly, I don't see why we would have to. It's perfectly fine to prefer X-Wing over Armada, both games are different enough to justify loving one more than the other. It's simply a matter of taste.
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Phuntom wrote:
Red Castle wrote:
I'll just say that I'm glad this thread didn't turned into a silly fanwar because it could have easily happened. I'm glad to see that the Armada community is mature enough.

As for the topic, like I said earlier, both games are great. Clearly you've played both games enough to make your own conclusion so I don't see how we could change your mind. More importantly, I don't see why we would have to. It's perfectly fine to prefer X-Wing over Armada, both games are different enough to justify loving one more than the other. It's simply a matter of taste.


I feel like I should be getting my investment out of Armada, as it's just sitting there on my shelf.

I was thinking someone might tell me a compelling story or convincing argument that I should give it another go, instead of playing with my super compelling X-Wing stuff.

No one has really mentioned the new Armada fighters, transports, or other new ships, or even much about the campaign, as potential reasons to return. I thought that might be the big draw, or it would be some other epiphany that someone had. Most of the arguments for Aramada were really arguments against X-Wing (too dicey was popular, as well as "too tactical" or "not strategic").

It's all good though. Some interesting comments about all this have been made, I think Armada is an excellent design, and has great models. One of the best games I've played in my 35+ years of gaming. It's clearly going to continue to receive support from FFG, and has many fans.

I'll be watching from the sidelines, see how the meta develops. Perhaps something will strike me and I'll give it a go again.


Well, you rated Armada 9.5 yourself, I think that should be reason enough to play once in a while. I mean, I prefer Armada, but that didn't stop me from having fun playing 2 games of X-Wing tonight with a friend. Variety is the spice of life.
 
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Phil Triest
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Phuntom wrote:
Red Castle wrote:
I'll just say that I'm glad this thread didn't turned into a silly fanwar because it could have easily happened. I'm glad to see that the Armada community is mature enough.

As for the topic, like I said earlier, both games are great. Clearly you've played both games enough to make your own conclusion so I don't see how we could change your mind. More importantly, I don't see why we would have to. It's perfectly fine to prefer X-Wing over Armada, both games are different enough to justify loving one more than the other. It's simply a matter of taste.


I feel like I should be getting my investment out of Armada, as it's just sitting there on my shelf.


I am sure someone would happily buy your Armada collection from you if you priced it reasonably either here at the market or on eBay or somewhere else.
 
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