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Subject: The Darkborne - A new hero class for MYTH rss

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Tobias Loeffler
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I'm working on a new hero for MYTH - the Darkborne. Like the Outsider, the Darkborne follows the "dark" hero path. He is fighting a constant inner struggle to not completely succumb to his feral, demonic side. When playing the Darkborne deciding when to become "feral" and when better to stay in "control" will be one of the many choices a player has to make. One of the action spaces of the Darkborne will always be occupied by a stat card. One side has the rules for "control" mode, the other side the rules for "feral" mode.

Control Mode:

This mode gives you a bonus to hero cards with the "control" keyword.
Your base threat is 1 in this mode.
You can't be healed except by certain hero cards in your deck.

Feral Mode:

This mode gives you a bonus to hero cards with the "feral" keyword.
Your base threat is 3 in this mode-
You can't be healed except by certain hero cards in your deck.
You can't choose your targets freely and must attack the closest target.
You cure the poison status effect when becoming feral.

Changing modes:

Playing certain hero cards makes you become feral. Once you are feral,
you get 1 roll against your current vitality each HC to revert back to control mode. The higher your vitality the easier it will be to gain control again.

Bite cards: Cards with this keyword will allow you to regain vitality.

Shadows: Some cards will benefit from you being in Shadows (some mechanic as the Brigand).

Example for control card:

Bat Swarm
Action, 2AP, damage:1, range:3
attack, summon, control
Attack 3 targets within range. Doesn’t need LoS.
3D10

Example of feral card:

Unleashed
Reaction, 1AP, damage:1, range:1
attack, melee, feral
Attack 1 target within range. Search your discard for all other "Unleashed" cards and play them for 0 AP. Become feral.

Example of bite card:

Vampiric Bite
Action, 1AP, damage:2, range:1
attack, bite
Attack 1 target within range. Restore 1 vitality per success
Gain +2D10 when in shadows.

Example of move card:

Nightwind
Reaction, 1AP
move, shadows 5
Gain 2 mp. Gain Shadows when you have finished moving.

Example of support / buff card:

Ghoulish Strength
Reaction, 1AP, range:1
Remove 1 treasure token within range from the tile to gain +1 damage. Become feral.

I've a few more cards ready, but wanted to get your ideas / feedback before wrapping this up. What do you think of the basic concept? What hero cards / abilities would you like to see on a vampire themed hero?

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MM
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Tobi - you should freelance for McG (not for free though - laugh).

Seriously. As much as you do for this game and the community, you should get more than a couple GG bag.

I think you're onto a unique way of playing. A couple of thoughts came to mind as I was reading your proposal. Just thinking out loud here.

E Feral - do you actually become some other form? Are you transforming into the vampire in this state OR becoming the animal form? If you're transforming into some Feral animal, I wonder if you could gain additional forms. Maybe a novice form, a JM form(s), etc. Might be fun to have several miniatures for this hero.

E Will there be Novice cards and JM cards for this hero?

E Would the vampire lose health in outdoor settings given sunlight conditions?

E Might there be a natural enemy for the vampire where they do more damage against a particular race?

E Does courage/movement change between "forms"?

E Might it do less damage or be less effective against non-living monsters? No blood=no motivation to attack?

E Do you have any particular miniature(s) in mind for this hero?

E Might this hero have some sort of flight mechanic? Maybe based on the form it takes? Moves through anything possibly? Even red spaces? Maybe has LOS regardless?

E Might this hero have adverse impact on the group of heroes? Like impacting courage tests whenever near other heroes? Maybe the party is less effective because they are concerned the vamp will turn on them? Maybe only in the Feral form?

Anyway, those are some thoughts. I think you're onto a great start. Can't wait to see the artwork you come up with for these cards!

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Tobias Loeffler
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Thanks MM! Happy you like the idea!

Feral: Yeap, I imagine some kind of "change" going on. How drastic this will be optic-wise depends on the minis. I actually plan to give this hero some seperate transfromation cards (JM level and up). After all, transforming into a giant bat, wolf, whatever is one of the classic vampire powers. I'm sure, Reaper will have something fitting and when "Vampire Hunters" comes out, all miniature worries for this hero should be over...

JM: Yeap. I'm planning on doing the 10 cards for JM.

Outdoor settings: I've thought about it, but decided against it, as there are no official rules of daylight / night. It is a neat, thematic effect for the first 3 tiles or so but then might get annoying...

Natural enemy: I've also played with this idea and the closest I came up with in terms of game mechanics, was something special when it comes to undead enemies - like not being able to regain vitality from undead enemies or always targeting undead enemies last when feral. When I've worked a bit more on the lore of the hero, perhaps something will make its way onto a hero card or two.

Courage / movement: Movement: No. Courage: Perhaps. Not sure yet.

Miniatures: Not yet, but when I post the final cards, I'll also post a miniature sugggestion.

Flight mechanic: Yeap. His move cards will all be a bit special as you can see with his "Hustle" card that also grants "Shadows".

Impact on party: Yeah, if been thinking about this as well and perhaps some later, more powerful cards will have drawbacks for the whole party. Another "support" card is called "Ritual of Blood". It allows all heróes to sacrifice vitality to gain bonus D10 and FD. This is the rough direction I want to take the support cards of the Darkborne. Each benfit comes with a price to pay.

Thanks again for your kind words and feedback!
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Stevie P
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You may want to include an alternate gender mini suggestion. That is always popular.

Great job as always. I for one realize and appreciate the amount of time and effort this takes.
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Tobias Loeffler
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steprov wrote:
You may want to include an alternate gender mini suggestion. That is always popular.

Great job as always. I for one realize and appreciate the amount of time and effort this takes.


Yeah, great idea with the alternate gender model! Thank you!
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Interesting idea Tobias.

On first blush I'm a little concerned about the amount of head space this mechanic takes up though. What I mean by that is that the changing works differently from one to the other and that there are all these little rules that apply to one and not the other that strike me as easy to forget (like the poison thing).

In addition, while thematically appropriate, I'm not sure adding even more things like exceptions for undead or the like would be moving in the right direction. I remember one of the designers of the Pathfinder Adventure Card Game bringing up this same point with the caltrops card in that game when fighting a skeleton enemy. Sure, it make sense for the caltrops card not working, but adding that little exception wasn't worth the added complexity in the game.

If you do want to add something like this though, I'd add it to the cards specifically. Like "Deals no damage to Undead" or "Deals -1 Damage to Undead." You also might want to add a keyword, say "Unholy," on cards that do less to Undead along with what that lesser thing is. That way you have something that tracks the Acolyte, just in the opposite way.

These concerns are mitigated somewhat by the "form" card being ever present, but as a longtime card game player I also know that people quickly migrate from reading the card to doing what they remember the card to say. As such, I think keeping the mechanic simple and reciprocal is the best way to approach this.

My suggestion would be to make changes both triggered off card play. In addition, I think it might be a good idea to not only keep the cards separated by use of keyword, but possibly card boarder too. If you go this route, you might also want to call out cards that cause the form to change graphically as well.

Anyway, that's just my two cents.
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Tobias Loeffler
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Hey Sudo, thanks for your feedback!

I understand your worry about the amount of rules to remember. That was one reason, why I went with the stat card.
I really like the idea of different colors for the different forms, so the cards are easy to recognize without hunting for keywords. I might add that! Thanks!
On the other hand if we look at heroes like the spriggan, trickster or brigand, I think the amount of rules for the Darkborne is not so much worse.

There are two simple design choices I want to follow:

- All cards should be useful on their own. IMHO some of the additional heroes that MCG designed are not really fun to play, because they rely too much on combos.

- The combos present in the deck, will be simple yet (hopefully) fun and "cinematic" to play.
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Tobias Loeffler
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These are some minis from Reaper Bones, that could work:

Darkborne, male



Darkborne, female



Darkborne, feral



The game "Vampire Hunters" has a lot of great vampire sculpts. Check it out here: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1900818244/vampire-hunt...
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Michelle
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Are those are actually Bones (plastic) and not just from Reaper's regular metal line?
I ask just because they don't look familiar to me. I could totally be mistaken.
 
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Tobias Loeffler
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breegull wrote:
Are those are actually Bones (plastic) and not just from Reaper's regular metal line?
I ask just because they don't look familiar to me. I could totally be mistaken.


TBH I have no idea. I just did a miniature search on their homepage...
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Tobias Loeffler
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First mock-up of a Darkborne hero card. I decided against changing the boarder color for feral cards but added the claw marks instead. What do you think?

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Thorsten Schröder
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nimmzwei wrote:
breegull wrote:
Are those are actually Bones (plastic) and not just from Reaper's regular metal line?
I ask just because they don't look familiar to me. I could totally be mistaken.


TBH I have no idea. I just did a miniature search on their homepage...


I'm under the impression that they post the same (at least painted ) pictures form the metal-minis on the bones-minis on their hompage.
It's a bit misleading since the details on metals are sharper.
I still love bones cause the value for money is extremely high...
 
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Michelle
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Cuthailion wrote:
I'm under the impression that they post the same (at least painted ) pictures form the metal-minis on the bones-minis on their hompage.
It's a bit misleading since the details on metals are sharper.
I still love bones cause the value for money is extremely high...


No, I'm pretty sure any painted pictures on the bones pages are actually submitted by users on their forums who painted the bones versions.

Those particular minis above all look like metal versions bc, as you say, the details look very sharp. (And I don't recall any of those figs from the Bones KS.) But I'm too lazy to do a search on their website to confirm for sure.
 
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Tobias Loeffler
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Links to the minis:

http://www.reapermini.com/OnlineStore/eldessa/latest/02986
http://www.reapermini.com/OnlineStore/bloodseeker/sku-down/1...
http://www.reapermini.com/OnlineStore/vorvo/sku-down/50329

It seems they are all metal. Sorry for the confusion. I didn't realize that the company is acutally only called "Reaper" and their special plasitc material is called "Bones". It was always "Reaper Bones Minis" in my head...
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Tobias Loeffler
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V2 - Lost the claw marks (too much distraction) and just changed the color of the hero symbol to red on the feral cards.

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Tobias Loeffler
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GW also has nice vampires. How are they scale-wise compared to MYTH heroes? They "feel" larger - more like captain-size...


 
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MM
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nimmzwei wrote:
V2 - Lost the claw marks (too much distraction) and just changed the color of the hero symbol to red on the feral cards.


Good call. Those claw marks were pretty distracting now that you mention it.
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MM
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nimmzwei wrote:
GW also has nice vampires. How are they scale-wise compared to MYTH heroes? They "feel" larger - more like captain-size...


I think it really depends on the GW model - their sizes range all over the place. Heck that model in my Avatar would dwarf a boss and it's a hero model in Silver Tower.

Plus you're now in real model price territory. Individual GW models usually sit at about $15 retail. When comparing to Bones (my preferred Myth substitute) that's a pretty big difference.

Regardless - there are probably some nice models in the GW line that could be leveraged. Personally, whenever I've designed a new monster for Myth, I've tried to base it on a Bones figure. I, however, approach the design differently than you do - I start with the model and design around it. Looks like you start with a concept and find a model afterwards.
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David Griffin
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Well it seems to be in line for today's focus on anti-heroes and it's not that off track given the Hunter and other "outsider" type heroes. One wonders given the graphics if the cure is worse than the disease though

Nice work on the cards and the concept seems like it would fit in to Myth.
 
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Michelle
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nimmzwei wrote:
GW also has nice vampires. How are they scale-wise compared to MYTH heroes? They "feel" larger - more like captain-size...


Those guys have a lot of doodads sticking out to take up space, but overall they look hero-sized to me. Looking at the thickness of the base vs. the width, those bases look like 25mm or 20mm square. (Myth is 25mm round). I do think the Vampire Counts are on the tall side of GW minis, but I'm guessing they'd fit in just fine.

Side note, I love the art you're choosing for this hero. I love MtG vampire decks. <3
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Michelle
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For some nice cheap Reaper Bones minis, I'd recommend these guys. (Man, vampires really like to take up a lot of space with their flourish-y capes and their corpse collections):

Female:


Male:


Feral (I can confirm this guy will still fit on a 25mm round base):
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Tobias Loeffler
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Guilty as charged. Played MtG from the very beginning, then sold my cards (moxes and all)... and still, even decades later I get the itch from time to time... I even printed 10 or so themed decks myself to have some fun with friends...

Happy you like the cards! Finding art on MTG card search that fits the cards is acrually what takes the longest... I think youÄll like the others as well!

Thanks for posting more miniature alternatives! I'm leaning towards the metal Reaper mini from my first mini post. I already have the metal Spriggan and Torchbearer so no harm there!
 
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Tobias Loeffler
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Mistermannindy wrote:
I think it really depends on the GW model - their sizes range all over the place. Heck that model in my Avatar would dwarf a boss and it's a hero model in Silver Tower.


Damn, now I need to buy this game! Thanks for stopping by MM and giving your opinion and thoughts again and again. Really appreciated. Thank you.
 
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Tobias Loeffler
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carbon_dragon wrote:
Well it seems to be in line for today's focus on anti-heroes and it's not that off track given the Hunter and other "outsider" type heroes. One wonders given the graphics if the cure is worse than the disease though

Nice work on the cards and the concept seems like it would fit in to Myth.


Thanks for your feedback. Hope you'll give the Darkborne a well-earned Grubber-dinner when he's ready. Nice to see the game getting new fans - been reading your name quite a lot lately!
 
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nimmzwei wrote:
Mistermannindy wrote:
I think it really depends on the GW model - their sizes range all over the place. Heck that model in my Avatar would dwarf a boss and it's a hero model in Silver Tower.


Damn, now I need to buy this game! Thanks for stopping by MM and giving your opinion and thoughts again and again. Really appreciated. Thank you.


The models in Silver Tower are exquisite. Now you have to like the Tzeentch theme, but from a quality standpoint they are top notch.

PM me if you have questions on ST - happy to give you Pros/Cons. It's an expensive game.
 
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