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Subject: Question for the people planning to vote Trump rss

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J
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Do the many flip-flops on policy positions give you pause, or do you not care? Besides the most recent immigration reversal

WaPo wrote:
Trump has shifted his position

on raising the federal minimum wage (against it, for it, get rid of it, leave it to the states, put it at $10 an hour);

on fighting the Islamic State (bomb the “hell out of them” and take the oil fields, let our regional allies take the lead, declare war and send in troops, let Russia take care of it);

on taxes for the wealthy (increase them, cut them dramatically, make the wealthy pay more, make everyone pay less);

on his Muslim ban (exclude all Muslims, keep Muslims out except for members of the military and current residents, it was “just a suggestion,” ban Muslims from countries with a history of terrorism, impose “extreme vetting”);

on the national debt (eliminate it in eight years, prioritize massive infrastructure spending, renegotiate debt with creditors, just “print the money”).

If these aren't the issues you care about, do you think he will keep the ones you do? If so, why?
 
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Born To Lose, Live To Win
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Realistically, isn't this what everyone expected? Closer to November the more moderate he would get? I think a better question is to GOP voters in general, has his move to the middle made him palatable enough to vote for now?
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J
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On some issues yes. I would consider changing the "ban all Muslims" to "ban people from terrorist supporting countries" to be a move to the center.

But going from "deport all illegals" to "maintain the Obama policies" is a bit more. Or at least I assume his base will since they certainly don't see Obama as a Centrist.

Also moderating positions usually doesn't entail totally reversing them.
 
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Boaty McBoatface
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Why not let some Trump supporter answer, assuming we have any who will admit to it.
 
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Born To Lose, Live To Win
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slatersteven wrote:
Why not let some Trump supporter answer, assuming we have any who will admit to it.
Whaddya new?
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You're not going to get a reasonable answer to this as I think there's a similar problem on both sides and it's been the same for most of the elections for quite sometime now.

The most likely answer is simply "Not Hillary" for the Republicans, and "Not Trump" for the Democrats.

I've yet to see a candidate who either hasn't flip flopped on issues prior to getting elected or after having been elected. Our political system is just broken with no fix in sight.
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R. Frazier
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I think people are generally voting for Trump to win because they like him and they like the idea of him being president.

He says so much stuff that I assume they just pick and choose the things they like and add that to the reasons they like him, and ignore the other stuff.

I also think they probably believe that "deep down" he agrees with them and he's saying the "other stuff" to get elected, because facts and honesty haven't mattered to conservatives for about 20 years.

Essentially voting for Trump is a chance to vote for a conservative talk radio personality. He's fun to watch, he tells those stupid liberals they're they're stupid and they suck, which feels good because you hate liberals, and he's gonna take on "the establishment" and make a system you do not understand at all work for you, which is what you deserve as a "real American" unlike all those "others" who have been holding you back your whole life.
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Scott O'Brien
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jmilum wrote:
Do the many flip-flops on policy positions give you pause, or do you not care? Besides the most recent immigration reversal

WaPo wrote:
Trump has shifted his position

on raising the federal minimum wage (against it, for it, get rid of it, leave it to the states, put it at $10 an hour);

on fighting the Islamic State (bomb the “hell out of them” and take the oil fields, let our regional allies take the lead, declare war and send in troops, let Russia take care of it);

on taxes for the wealthy (increase them, cut them dramatically, make the wealthy pay more, make everyone pay less);

on his Muslim ban (exclude all Muslims, keep Muslims out except for members of the military and current residents, it was “just a suggestion,” ban Muslims from countries with a history of terrorism, impose “extreme vetting”);

on the national debt (eliminate it in eight years, prioritize massive infrastructure spending, renegotiate debt with creditors, just “print the money”).

If these aren't the issues you care about, do you think he will keep the ones you do? If so, why?


I think you misunderstand... most people wh ovote for trump, aren't necessarily voting for him, but against Hillary.

you failed to mention the 2 most important issues, which they know Hillary is going to do exactly what they fear most...


Issue #1, Guns! They all know Hillary is going to do everything in her power to bring more gun restrictions and bans.

Issue #2, Judges! They all fear the (up to) 4 judges that Hillary could put into place for life on the supreme court, continuing the erosion of religious freedoms for the sake of political correctness and expanding the LGBTQ rights.

You guys just don't get it...
Most common people (non rich / non business owners) who vote republican don't vote for economics... the only thing that matters to them is conservative family, religious, and social values. 3 things which the entire DNC party is plainly against.
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Jon Badolato
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Quote:
Issue #2, Judges! They all fear the (up to) 4 judges that Hillary could put into place for life on the supreme court, continuing the erosion of religious freedoms for the sake of political correctness and expanding the LGBTQ rights.


What religious freedoms do you feel have been curtailed lately ? How has giving LGBTQ equal rights affected your ability to practice your religion ? In what way has it impacted you ?
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R. Frazier
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I think that the idea of "progress" if that means "something different" and of any change to the current social order is scary.

That said I personally favor virtually no gun rights, but I wish the party would just take gun stuff off the table period. We never get anything through congress and it's a huge wedge issue that gets shitty conservative candidates votes. If the party just promised across the board to never propose new gun laws, we could really run the table on a lot of other way more important issues.
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Drew
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jonb wrote:
Quote:
Issue #2, Judges! They all fear the (up to) 4 judges that Hillary could put into place for life on the supreme court, continuing the erosion of religious freedoms for the sake of political correctness and expanding the LGBTQ rights.


What religious freedoms do you feel have been curtailed lately ? How has giving LGBTQ equal rights affected your ability to practice your religion ? In what way has it impacted you ?


Let's ask the bakers, florists, photographers and caterers who have been targeted for their religious beliefs, some of whom have lost their businesses, whether they're feeling impacted.

The current regime is no friend to religious freedom unless you're Muslim.

Which is funny, because Hillary's husband signed RFRA into law. Maybe some actual journalist could ask her what she thinks about it today. (But that would require journalists to not be just Hillary-shills lobbing softball questions at her like "How awful is Trump, anyway?" -- when they're allowed to ask her questions at all, which has been, what? Almost a year now since her last press conference?)

Vote Hillary! Who needs freedom anyway?
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jonb wrote:
Quote:
Issue #2, Judges! They all fear the (up to) 4 judges that Hillary could put into place for life on the supreme court, continuing the erosion of religious freedoms for the sake of political correctness and expanding the LGBTQ rights.


What religious freedoms do you feel have been curtailed lately ? How has giving LGBTQ equal rights affected your ability to practice your religion ? In what way has it impacted you ?


Whilst retaining the right to be a biggot They have lost the freedom to act on that biggotory and descriminate against people in the name of their 'faith'.

Simply being 'holier than thou' and looking down on other people isn't enough if you cant actively persecute them. It's the entire reason america was founded by the pilgrim fathers don't you know.
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Mac Mcleod
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jmilum wrote:
Do the many flip-flops on policy positions give you pause, or do you not care? Besides the most recent immigration reversal

WaPo wrote:
Trump has shifted his position

on raising the federal minimum wage (against it, for it, get rid of it, leave it to the states, put it at $10 an hour);

on fighting the Islamic State (bomb the “hell out of them” and take the oil fields, let our regional allies take the lead, declare war and send in troops, let Russia take care of it);

on taxes for the wealthy (increase them, cut them dramatically, make the wealthy pay more, make everyone pay less);

on his Muslim ban (exclude all Muslims, keep Muslims out except for members of the military and current residents, it was “just a suggestion,” ban Muslims from countries with a history of terrorism, impose “extreme vetting”);

on the national debt (eliminate it in eight years, prioritize massive infrastructure spending, renegotiate debt with creditors, just “print the money”).

If these aren't the issues you care about, do you think he will keep the ones you do? If so, why?


Thank you for including the top and bottom bun on your hamburger of a questiong giving it context. Slater's version for hillary just includes the meat. Additionally, you included details of the various positions Trump has flipped thru. It is easy to understand your question.
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Mac Mcleod
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rylfrazier wrote:
I think that the idea of "progress" if that means "something different" and of any change to the current social order is scary.

That said I personally favor virtually no gun rights, but I wish the party would just take gun stuff off the table period. We never get anything through congress and it's a huge wedge issue that gets shitty conservative candidates votes. If the party just promised across the board to never propose new gun laws, we could really run the table on a lot of other way more important issues.


We are going to have to address ar-15's and large easy to swap magazines.

And if after they are used a few more times for mass shootings, we will despite the NRA.


---

Most trump voters I know (and the talk radio stations I've listened to) have switched over from being anti-hillary to being pro-trump.

This is bad because some of them are internalizing white supremacist values because of their support for trump. Trump is like a poison that corrupts everything and everyone who sides with him. Just look at Rubio. It's scary pathetic.
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Drew
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Thanks for the rent-free space in your head. Would have been nice if you'd cleaned it up a bit before you rented it out, though.
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growlley wrote:
Simply being 'holier than thou' and looking down on other people isn't enough if you cant actively persecute them.


Yes. So why are you persecuting them? Isn't it enough that you can act holier than thou?

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Jon Badolato
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Quote:

Let's ask the bakers, florists, photographers and caterers who have been targeted for their religious beliefs, some of whom have lost their businesses, whether they're feeling impacted.



If their religious beliefs entail shutting someone out of public commerce and treating them differently than other customers with whom they do business, then, sorry, their religious viewpoint should be curtailed. Your right to practice your religion ends where it intersects with someone else's right to be treated equally under the law.

It's telling that you see the people who would so easily discriminate as the targets rather than the people being discriminated against. That's conservative logic for you.
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Drew
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Thanks for the rent-free space in your head. Would have been nice if you'd cleaned it up a bit before you rented it out, though.
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jonb wrote:
Quote:

Let's ask the bakers, florists, photographers and caterers who have been targeted for their religious beliefs, some of whom have lost their businesses, whether they're feeling impacted.


If their religious beliefs entail shutting someone out of public commerce and treating them differently than other customers with whom they do business, then, sorry, their religious viewpoint should be curtailed.


Why?

Look, I posted an interesting article here explaining exactly why atheists assholes like you who get boners beating up on Christians should be very wary of chipping away at religious freedoms. Wish I could remember where I posted it. The writer was an atheist, but very concerned about loss of religious liberty, because he properly saw how lack of protections for businesses could impact him.

His company did audio recordings of books, and he wanted to ensure that he'd be free to reject religious material if it came his way. Unlike you, he saw that religious freedom works both ways.

Right now you don't see how it could harm you if we removed religious freedoms. You're too short-sighted to see beyond your own desired to punish religious people.
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maxo-texas wrote:
rylfrazier wrote:
I think that the idea of "progress" if that means "something different" and of any change to the current social order is scary.

That said I personally favor virtually no gun rights, but I wish the party would just take gun stuff off the table period. We never get anything through congress and it's a huge wedge issue that gets shitty conservative candidates votes. If the party just promised across the board to never propose new gun laws, we could really run the table on a lot of other way more important issues.


We are going to have to address ar-15's and large easy to swap magazines.

And if after they are used a few more times for mass shootings, we will despite the NRA.


---

Most trump voters I know (and the talk radio stations I've listened to) have switched over from being anti-hillary to being pro-trump.

This is bad because some of them are internalizing white supremacist values because of their support for trump. Trump is like a poison that corrupts everything and everyone who sides with him. Just look at Rubio. It's scary pathetic.


No, what we need to do is address the inner city violence due to poverty and the war on drugs. We also need to work on convincing people that life is worth living, no matter how difficult things may seem at times.

If people wasted half their energy (and money) on that as they do on "gun control" we'd see the big problems go away overnight.
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Pontifex Maximus
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Drew1365 wrote:
jonb wrote:
Quote:

Let's ask the bakers, florists, photographers and caterers who have been targeted for their religious beliefs, some of whom have lost their businesses, whether they're feeling impacted.


If their religious beliefs entail shutting someone out of public commerce and treating them differently than other customers with whom they do business, then, sorry, their religious viewpoint should be curtailed.


Why?

Look, I posted an interesting article here explaining exactly why atheists assholes like you who get boners beating up on Christians should be very wary of chipping away at religious freedoms. Wish I could remember where I posted it. The writer was an atheist, but very concerned about loss of religious liberty, because he properly saw how lack of protections for businesses could impact him.

His company did audio recordings of books, and he wanted to ensure that he'd be free to reject religious material if it came his way. Unlike you, he saw that religious freedom works both ways.

Right now you don't see how it could harm you if we removed religious freedoms. You're too short-sighted to see beyond your own desired to punish religious people.


For the 298th time. Your religion does not give you the right to discriminate against your fellow citizens. Religious Freedom also means the Freedom not to be subject to your Religion. What part of treating all citizens equally as far as public accommodations do you have a hard time wrapping your brain around?
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Mac Mcleod
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COMPNOR wrote:
maxo-texas wrote:
rylfrazier wrote:
I think that the idea of "progress" if that means "something different" and of any change to the current social order is scary.

That said I personally favor virtually no gun rights, but I wish the party would just take gun stuff off the table period. We never get anything through congress and it's a huge wedge issue that gets shitty conservative candidates votes. If the party just promised across the board to never propose new gun laws, we could really run the table on a lot of other way more important issues.


We are going to have to address ar-15's and large easy to swap magazines.

And if after they are used a few more times for mass shootings, we will despite the NRA.


---

Most trump voters I know (and the talk radio stations I've listened to) have switched over from being anti-hillary to being pro-trump.

This is bad because some of them are internalizing white supremacist values because of their support for trump. Trump is like a poison that corrupts everything and everyone who sides with him. Just look at Rubio. It's scary pathetic.


No, what we need to do is address the inner city violence due to poverty and the war on drugs. We also need to work on convincing people that life is worth living, no matter how difficult things may seem at times.

If people wasted half their energy (and money) on that as they do on "gun control" we'd see the big problems go away overnight.


Addressing those things will reduce violence but will not eliminate violence. The larger our population gets, the larger number of legitimately insane people are in the population.

Combining high rate of fire, high capacity, mental illness or extremism with high population density is just bad.

Population density is only going to increase for the rest of our lives.
Many times we can't detect the mental illness or extremism before they start pulling the trigger.
Even six shot pistols can fire multiple rounds a second accurately.

So ease of swapping magazines, ease of buying bullets, cost of bullets, and limiting magazine capacity to a dozen shots are probably the best areas to target.

So we could register bullet sales like we do sudafed.
We could limit the amount of bullets that can be bought per month outside of those consumed at shooting ranges.
We could tax bullets a quarter a piece outside of shooting ranges.



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Jon Badolato
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Drew1365 wrote:
jonb wrote:
Quote:

Let's ask the bakers, florists, photographers and caterers who have been targeted for their religious beliefs, some of whom have lost their businesses, whether they're feeling impacted.


If their religious beliefs entail shutting someone out of public commerce and treating them differently than other customers with whom they do business, then, sorry, their religious viewpoint should be curtailed.


Why?

Look, I posted an interesting article here explaining exactly why atheists assholes like you who get boners beating up on Christians should be very wary of chipping away at religious freedoms. Wish I could remember where I posted it. The writer was an atheist, but very concerned about loss of religious liberty, because he properly saw how lack of protections for businesses could impact him.

His company did audio recordings of books, and he wanted to ensure that he'd be free to reject religious material if it came his way. Unlike you, he saw that religious freedom works both ways.

Right now you don't see how it could harm you if we removed religious freedoms. You're too short-sighted to see beyond your own desired to punish religious people.


What you see as "beating up on Christians" is more correctly interpreted as "allowing all people to be treated equally with respect to public accommodations and the marketplace, regardless of one's religious convictions to discriminate". I would look just as poorly at atheists who tried to exclude religious people from the public marketplace and public accommodations. But you don't seem to see that happen nearly as much if at all.
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Scott O'Brien
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Kumitedad wrote:
Drew1365 wrote:
jonb wrote:
Quote:

Let's ask the bakers, florists, photographers and caterers who have been targeted for their religious beliefs, some of whom have lost their businesses, whether they're feeling impacted.


If their religious beliefs entail shutting someone out of public commerce and treating them differently than other customers with whom they do business, then, sorry, their religious viewpoint should be curtailed.


Why?

Look, I posted an interesting article here explaining exactly why atheists assholes like you who get boners beating up on Christians should be very wary of chipping away at religious freedoms. Wish I could remember where I posted it. The writer was an atheist, but very concerned about loss of religious liberty, because he properly saw how lack of protections for businesses could impact him.

His company did audio recordings of books, and he wanted to ensure that he'd be free to reject religious material if it came his way. Unlike you, he saw that religious freedom works both ways.

Right now you don't see how it could harm you if we removed religious freedoms. You're too short-sighted to see beyond your own desired to punish religious people.


For the 298th time. Your religion does not give you the right to discriminate against your fellow citizens. Religious Freedom also means the Freedom not to be subject to your Religion. What part of treating all citizens equally as far as public accommodations do you have a hard time wrapping your brain around?


Newsflash: that only applies to "public/government" services...
a private vendor/store entity, absolutely has the right to discriminate just as any joe citizen does.
Every private individual and entity are granted the right of association or non-association as they choose by the 1st amendment of the constitution.

http://www.cato.org/policy-report/marchapril-2016/libertaria...
 
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Scott O'Brien
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jonb wrote:
Drew1365 wrote:
jonb wrote:
Quote:

Let's ask the bakers, florists, photographers and caterers who have been targeted for their religious beliefs, some of whom have lost their businesses, whether they're feeling impacted.


If their religious beliefs entail shutting someone out of public commerce and treating them differently than other customers with whom they do business, then, sorry, their religious viewpoint should be curtailed.


Why?

Look, I posted an interesting article here explaining exactly why atheists assholes like you who get boners beating up on Christians should be very wary of chipping away at religious freedoms. Wish I could remember where I posted it. The writer was an atheist, but very concerned about loss of religious liberty, because he properly saw how lack of protections for businesses could impact him.

His company did audio recordings of books, and he wanted to ensure that he'd be free to reject religious material if it came his way. Unlike you, he saw that religious freedom works both ways.

Right now you don't see how it could harm you if we removed religious freedoms. You're too short-sighted to see beyond your own desired to punish religious people.


What you see as "beating up on Christians" is more correctly interpreted as "allowing all people to be treated equally with respect to public accommodations and the marketplace, regardless of one's religious convictions to discriminate". I would look just as poorly at atheists who tried to exclude religious people from the public marketplace and public accommodations. But you don't seem to see that happen nearly as much if at all.


They marketplace is NOT "public", unless owned by the GOV. Each business is privately owned and operated and is afforded all the rights of a private individual.
 
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Donald
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sao123 wrote:

Newsflash: that only applies to "public/government" services...
a private vendor/store entity, absolutely has the right to discriminate just as any joe citizen does.
Every private individual and entity are granted the right of association or non-association as they choose by the 1st amendment of the constitution.

http://www.cato.org/policy-report/marchapril-2016/libertaria...


Right. Tell some customers you're not going to serve them because they're black and see what happens. Or Jewish. Or Catholic.

Hilarious.

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Josh
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sao123 wrote:
jonb wrote:
Drew1365 wrote:
jonb wrote:
Quote:

Let's ask the bakers, florists, photographers and caterers who have been targeted for their religious beliefs, some of whom have lost their businesses, whether they're feeling impacted.


If their religious beliefs entail shutting someone out of public commerce and treating them differently than other customers with whom they do business, then, sorry, their religious viewpoint should be curtailed.


Why?

Look, I posted an interesting article here explaining exactly why atheists assholes like you who get boners beating up on Christians should be very wary of chipping away at religious freedoms. Wish I could remember where I posted it. The writer was an atheist, but very concerned about loss of religious liberty, because he properly saw how lack of protections for businesses could impact him.

His company did audio recordings of books, and he wanted to ensure that he'd be free to reject religious material if it came his way. Unlike you, he saw that religious freedom works both ways.

Right now you don't see how it could harm you if we removed religious freedoms. You're too short-sighted to see beyond your own desired to punish religious people.


What you see as "beating up on Christians" is more correctly interpreted as "allowing all people to be treated equally with respect to public accommodations and the marketplace, regardless of one's religious convictions to discriminate". I would look just as poorly at atheists who tried to exclude religious people from the public marketplace and public accommodations. But you don't seem to see that happen nearly as much if at all.


They marketplace is NOT "public", unless owned by the GOV. Each business is privately owned and operated and is afforded all the rights of a private individual.


The marketplace is itself owned and regulated by the government, so yes it is public. If you'd like to do business somewhere without laws and regulations you can go do that.
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