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Subject: Looking for a Chess-killer rss

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Malcom Chase
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Hi! I'm looking for a gift for my brother. He has been a gamer for a while, with a background on chess. He still prefers strategic games, little randomness, and perfect information, if possible.

So far, I've found Onitama, The Duke and Hive as potential gifts.

Do you know of any more games to consider? Or do you have some comments about the ones I picked?

He doesn't have a game collection, so suggest even the most obvious ones, as there's no chance he will own them haha.

Thanks!
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'Bernard Wingrave'
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A chess clock might be good if he doesn't already have one.
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Antonie van der Tweel
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a shogi set ?
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Michael
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Push Fight is a good abstract with its own niche, very quick.

Otherwise the champion of abstracts is Go.

Maybe a Go set and a good book introducing it.
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Bert VanEssen
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Have you taken a look at Tak - it should be out soon and has quite a few different boards depending on budget.
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Geoffrey Burrell
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Alison Mandible
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For people who like Chess, nothing is going to replace Chess.

Onitama is fun, though.

Luck of the draw can feel pretty substantial in The Duke. It's a fun game, and I bet luck is less of a factor than it seems (if both of you get good at the game) but somebody who prefers less luck in games could easily have a bad experience the first time they play and think "this is silly, it's all luck".
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Scott O'Brien
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Hive
Knightmare Chess (third edition)
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Bwian, just
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My chess-killer is Navia Dratp, but good luck finding a copy. No set starting lineup, multiple win conditions, and a bit of resource management.

I'd say The Duke and Hive are both good choices; I haven't played Onitama. If your brother is a Norse fan, he might prefer Jarl: The Vikings Tile-Laying Game to The Duke: the pieces are more complicated in terms of gameplay, of nicer physical quality, and a bit harder to read.

Tile Chess and Proteus are two games that are clearly chess related, but bring new things to the table. Tile Chess actually allows up to six players, and turns chess into a kind of knife fight. Proteus allows the pieces to morph during the game: the dice aren't rolled, but rather turned to the appropriate side.

Knightmare Chess (third edition) might be of interest, to spice up regular chess games. It does add randomness, though, so the question is whether sticking to chess is more attractive than keeping perfect information.

I enjoyed Oshi, but I don't know that it ever saw enough deep play to interest a chess fan. And Khet 2.0 is fun and pretty, although it felt a bit shallow to me.
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Chris
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You've found the best three, IMO.

I'd lean towards The Duke and Hive over Onitama; not that Onitama is not good; it's just that the immediate choice set on any given move is smaller relative to the two other games. I imagine (may be wrong) that a chess player would prefer (slightly) more options to fewer. Overall, I'd probably go Hive; as others have said, the bag draw adds a probablistic element to The Duke that your brother may not like.
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Bwian, just
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avdtweel wrote:
a shogi set ?

Sure, other ancient abstracts might work. My choice would be Go, though... ninja
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Malcom Chase
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bwingrave wrote:
A chess clock might be good if he doesn't already have one.


grasa_total wrote:
For people who like Chess, nothing is going to replace Chess.


When I say background on chess, I mean it was his first foray into actual gaming. While I preferred classical card games or dice games as a child, he always went for chess and actually competed for a while. He eventually stopped, though.

Nowadays, we have a semi-regular Magic: the Gathering group and I only recently started my collection, so we are just branching out into this huge gaming world.

So don't worry, I'm not trying to get him away from chess or anything, haha. I mentioned it because my thematic, cooperative, card- or dice-driven games leave him yearning for something else every once in a while. He does really enjoy Steam Works (engine building/worker placement), though.
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John M
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Kamisado
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Mr. Frothingslosh
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Consider Dungeon Twister.

While not 100% perfect information, as battles can involve some bluffing, I think it hits on other requirements well. It's also a heckuva lot if fun.

Your suggestion of Hive would also work very well with benefits of quick setup and easy rules.
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Jeffery Hudson
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My suggestion is Tafl.

I run a historical games booth at Renn. Fairs and I have yet to find a chess lover that does not fall in love with Tafl. The more of a chess aficionado they are the more they fall in love with Tafl. You can buy Hnefatafl sets from Amazon for around $30.

If he's a true Chess fan and not just an abstract fan, my recommendation is defiantly Tafl.
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Bwian, just
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Oh, just thought of another one: Pyramid Arcade. It's not out yet, but should be out in October: maybe a Christmas gift . This is the latest incarnation of Looney Pyramids games, which include abstracts, real-time, dice-fest, and any other category of games that people have come up with. Homeworlds is highly rated as an abstract, and I've enjoyed Martian Chess as well. (You can track down pyramids from previous printings, if necessary, but the new package collects a lot of games into a single box.)
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Tobi Wagner
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No doubt, go with Hive. Just two weeks ago one of my hardcore-chess friends got hooked on this game.
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Russ Williams
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avdtweel wrote:
a shogi set ?

Yep, Shogi back-burnered Chess for my wife and me. The drop rule (you can re-enter captured pieces as your own) adds new levels of strategy and tactics; the game state stays complex, instead of becoming progressively simpler as in Chess.

A truly classic game from the same family which has passed the test of time. I have met many Chess fans who also discovered Shogi and loved it too.

I love Go as well, but Shogi seems more like a "Chess-killer", due to them being in the same family of "checkmate the enemy king" games.
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Malcom Chase
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Sorry I'm not answering each comment, but I saw some trends emerge:

· I was concerned about the "luck of the draw" in The Duke. As some people seems to share that sentiment, I'm going to ignore it for now.

· "Classic" games (Shogi, Go, etc.) might work mechanically. Still, I'm just a little bit worried they might not be as easy to find partners for as "modern" games.
Our group and friends lean towards new games (we met them thanks to Magic the Gathering), so, at least for now, I'm going to try to keep it "modern".

· As for the rest, I'm gonna watch some gameplay videos. Thanks for the suggestions!

· Finally, maybe "Chess-killer" wasn't a good name for the thread, haha. Should have been "Chess-like". Oh, well.


Thanks to everyone for taking the time to comment!
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Read the rulebook, plan for all contingencies and… Read the rulebook again.
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Here's a free one. All you need is some appropriate loose change. And the more, the merrier!
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Russ Williams
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MalCharacter wrote:
· Finally, maybe "Chess-killer" wasn't a good name for the thread, haha. Should have been "Chess-like".

Essentia is a clever modern Chess variant in which all pieces are identical, but move as various Chess pieces based on the terrain type they currently occupy.

I'll also second Tile Chess mentioned upthread. Chess, but with tiles on an unlimited square grid.

If you're open to less directly Chess-like, then besides Hive mentioned already, also see Stax for another "connected bunch of pieces on an unlimited hex grid" type game. (Both involve "checkmating" a specific opponent piece, so are at least Chess-like in that way.)

Kamisado is less "Chess-like" but might still be of interest, and also Arimaa.
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Markus Hagenauer jr.
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+1 Shogi


Futher there has been a quite simmilar question a few days ago.
I´m sure you´ll find ther some reccomendations that fit for you too.
Best Abstract games currently available.
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f h
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Arimaa
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Klim Chugunkin
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Quite a few chess masters became world class backgammon players. Even though there is an element of randomness in the game, the best player always wins in the long run. Oh, and backgammon is infinitely more fun than chess.
 
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Herb
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I started a geeklist which has two player games which are deterministic and "combinatorial like".

BGG "Abstract Strategy" Games That Are 2-Player "Combinatorial Game" Like

I wanted no randomness in the play, although I was willing to have randomness in the setup. All of the games have alternate play. As I remember the last "definition" was this in this post:

https://boardgamegeek.com/article/15980903#15980903

I'll point out that user 2pCombAbsStrat has all of the games in the geeklist in his "collection" so you can search through them with BGG's advanced search.
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