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Mike Stinchfield
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I had several times in my game when I did not have the amount of goblin disks to populate the tribes per the War card. Does overpopulation still occur? Did I miss a rule that is causing me to run out of disks? (Since you don't perform the overpopulation check until all tribes are populated)
 
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David Fenton
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A tribe can never have population over 4, so you will always have enough disks to have every tribe with 4 population. If the War card would have you increase a tribe's population over 4, you do not place a 5th disk (the tribe has just overpopulated). After adding all disks that you can, you handle the tribes that overpopulated (not look for those with more than 4 disks).

If 2 tribes overpopulated (regardless of by how much), you would need to reduce rage by 2 to avoid having to scatter a tribe (reducing rage by 1 would do nothing). If 3 overpopulated, your have to reduce rage by 3. You do after populating all tribes so you do not scatter multiple tribes.
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Mike Stinchfield
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Thanks! Though I do think the way the rules read that they should include extra goblin disks.
 
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David Fenton
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That might work as long as they remember to aways go back to 4 population (regardless of whether the tribes scatter or not)
 
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Kyle
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dsdhornet wrote:
If 2 tribes overpopulated (regardless of by how much), you would need to reduce rage by 2 to avoid having to scatter a tribe (reducing rage by 1 would do nothing). If 3 overpopulated, your have to reduce rage by 3. You do after populating all tribes so you do not scatter multiple tribes.
Spending Rage to prevent tribes from overpopulating is not mandatory.

If you'd rather keep your rage value high, you can choose to let some or all of the tribes overpopulate. No matter how many overpopulate at the same time, only one needs to scatter. Depending on the situation, letting one of the tribes go can be better than losing a bunch of rage.
 
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David Fenton
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Right. I'd been saying you'd have to reduce by 2 to avoid scattering (you don't have to avoid scattering if you don't want to). Probably wasn't as clear as I should have been though.
 
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Peter Rabinowitz
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MisterStatic wrote:
Thanks! Though I do think the way the rules read that they should include extra goblin disks.

If they included extra goblin disks, we would have seen questions like, "Since a tribe's population can never be greater than 4, why are there more than 12 disks?"

Also, more disks means increased cost and weight.
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Julius Besser
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The rules on this point were confusing to me as well. The rules say
Rulebook wrote:
Look at the War card you chose, and add Goblin
discs under each Goblin Tribe piece as shown
by the Tribe’s number on the War card.
...
After populating all Tribes, check for
overpopulation: if any Tribe’s Population is
greater than 4, ...

The rules are saying that you have to actually add the pieces. Only afterwards, you look to see if any tribe has a population higher than 4 (i.e. more than 4 discs). If so, it triggers overpopulation. If you can't add discs, and you're following the rules here, you don't add discs.
If the rules had said something more like this, it would have been more clear to me:
Rewrite wrote:
Look at the War card you choose.
For each Goblin Tribe, add the number shown
by that Tribe on the card to the current
population of that Tribe.

If the total is equal to or lower than four,
add Goblin discs under that Goblin Tribe piece
equal to the number shown by that Tribe on the
War card.

If the total is higher than four, you will
need to trigger overpopulation before taking
actions(and after adding discs for each Tribe).
Add only enough discs under that Goblin Tribe
so that there are four discs under the Tribe.

Overpopulation: After adding discs to
each tribe, if any Tribe triggered overpopulation,
you must scatter a revealed Tribe. If no
Tribes are revealed, you must scatter a hidden
Tribe. You will only ever need to scatter one
Tribe, even if multiple Tribes triggered
overpopulation.

I'm assuming that I have the intent of the rules clear in this re-write, and if I don't, please let me know. But this is more clear to me about how it works with the tribes and placing discs.
 
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Julius Besser
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Also, is there any reason that the goblin population wasn't tracked with a track (like all the other player boards) or a die? I find that its hard to see how many discs a tribe actually has without picking them up and counting, and its not as convenient as it could be to pick up the pile of discs whenever I want to move the goblin tribe or flip their tile.
I'm currently just spreading out the discs on the player board above their tribe's monsters. But I think it would have been easier to just put a track just above the monster for the goblin population with a couple extra punchboard chits for Strength +1. Or use three d6s to track population with the extra chits. (I think I'll probably just replace the discs and use d6s for population anyway and see how that works.)
 
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David Fenton
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jayelbird wrote:
Also, is there any reason that the goblin population wasn't tracked with a track (like all the other player boards) or a die? I find that its hard to see how many discs a tribe actually has without picking them up and counting, and its not as convenient as it could be to pick up the pile of discs whenever I want to move the goblin tribe or flip their tile.
I'm currently just spreading out the discs on the player board above their tribe's monsters. But I think it would have been easier to just put a track just above the monster for the goblin population with a couple extra punchboard chits for Strength +1. Or use three d6s to track population with the extra chits. (I think I'll probably just replace the discs and use d6s for population anyway and see how that works.)

I can't say for sure, but the thought may have been to make it more visible to other players (that can't easily see your board but might want to know how strong the Tribe lurking around the corner is). I think the Developers have said they wish the discs were thicker and more easily visible from a distance.

I agree with you that the rules could be a bit more clear and like your wording (my "Rules summary" says something similar to try to help clear it up).
 
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Julius Besser
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dsdhornet wrote:
jayelbird wrote:
Also, is there any reason that the goblin population wasn't tracked with a track (like all the other player boards) or a die? I find that its hard to see how many discs a tribe actually has without picking them up and counting, and its not as convenient as it could be to pick up the pile of discs whenever I want to move the goblin tribe or flip their tile.
I'm currently just spreading out the discs on the player board above their tribe's monsters. But I think it would have been easier to just put a track just above the monster for the goblin population with a couple extra punchboard chits for Strength +1. Or use three d6s to track population with the extra chits. (I think I'll probably just replace the discs and use d6s for population anyway and see how that works.)

I can't say for sure, but the thought may have been to make it more visible to other players (that can't easily see your board but might want to know how strong the Tribe lurking around the corner is). I think the Developers have said they wish the discs were thicker and more easily visible from a distance.

I agree with you that the rules could be a bit more clear and like your wording (my "Rules summary" says something similar to try to help clear it up).

I haven't had enough plays to really say, but none of the other characters have such visible stats. You may want to know the armor of the dragon or loot drop level of the thief, but you have to look at their player board to find out.
 
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David Fenton
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jayelbird wrote:
I haven't had enough plays to really say, but none of the other characters have such visible stats. You may want to know the armor of the dragon or loot drop level of the thief, but you have to look at their player board to find out.

Agreed, though I've found it easier to track one player's actions (set once per turn, such as Knight Strength / Thief Stealth) vs tracking 3 goblins and their ever-changing populations/monster assignments (since it changes as they get attacked/shot/spored/Dragon powered/etc). Dragon/Knight health also change throughout the game, but tend to be much more prominent events (for instance, everyone knows when the Dragon's almost dead even without looking, since it beckons them losing).

I don't see much difference between a track with cubes vs a track with discs (though I admit I have done the same as you and left them on my board above the monsters, and acknowledge that cubes are more space efficient). I usually just keep the disks below my Tribe piece, and move the whole set by gripping the bottom disk and lifting the entire pile straight up to flip tiles or move them.
 
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Peter Rabinowitz
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I'm assuming the point of discs is to put them under your player piece and move the whole stack around the board. But, yeah, dice would do the job nicely if you wanted to leave them on your player mat.

If I glued a penny or dime to each disc, they would stack higher and be easier to count. Hmm...
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David Fenton
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kc2dpt wrote:
If I glued a penny or dime to each disc, they would stack higher and be easier to count. Hmm...

I like that idea (and might steal it). Though I might recommend double-sided tape instead to make it easier to reverse in the future if you find a need to.
 
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Kyle
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kc2dpt wrote:
I'm assuming the point of discs is to put them under your player piece and move the whole stack around the board. But, yeah, dice would do the job nicely if you wanted to leave them on your player mat.
Moving the stacks along with the tribe tokens/standees was the intent of having the discs. (When moving them through Lit tiles, it's also kind of fun to drop the lost population tokens on the tiles as you go along.)


Most of the earlier designs for the Goblins did use cubes to track the population/strength on the player board only, but because they change so frequently it meant other players would have to be constantly leaning over to check the values. Having the discs right on the map makes that a lot easier to see at a glance.

The other roles are tracked only on their boards because their values don't change anywhere near as frequently, and when they do it's almost always to increase along a known progression.
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kc2dpt wrote:
If I glued a penny or dime to each disc, they would stack higher and be easier to count. Hmm...


Hmm... Maybe velcro? Then the stacks would be easier to move, too. Or magnets!!
 
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David Fenton
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I'm wondering if even reasonably thin cardboard would work. All it needs to do is add a tiny bit of visible space between disks, which would let players count them from afar.
 
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Chris
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Was it ever the case that the dragon kept the eaten goblin disks? Just like it keeps extra treasure tokens? I'm guessing that the limited supply of population disks lead to the creation of that super misleading "eaten goblins" track... the track that does NOT record the number of eaten goblins, but the number you're storing for eating later?
 
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David Fenton
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TheRocketSurgeon wrote:
Was it ever the case that the dragon kept the eaten goblin disks? Just like it keeps extra treasure tokens? I'm guessing that the limited supply of population disks lead to the creation of that super misleading "eaten goblins" track... the track that does NOT record the number of eaten goblins, but the number you're storing for eating later?

I'm quite sure that the Eaten Goblins track DOES track number of Goblins eaten, as it is increased when Goblin population is reduced (i.e., they are eaten). Think of it as the Eaten Goblins track (and Hunger track) being reduced as the Eaten Goblins are Digested.
 
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Kyle
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TheRocketSurgeon wrote:
Was it ever the case that the dragon kept the eaten goblin disks? Just like it keeps extra treasure tokens? I'm guessing that the limited supply of population disks lead to the creation of that super misleading "eaten goblins" track... the track that does NOT record the number of eaten goblins, but the number you're storing for eating later?
In some of the earlier designs Goblin population was tracked using a bucket of cubes, so when the Dragon ate them he actually took those cubes and kept them on his board until they were cleared.

It gave a nice visual appeal seeing them change hands, but there were too many problems with it. The biggest one being that if the Dragon ate enough of them in a short span it completely crippled the Goblin player because they wouldn't have enough cubes left to place on their board to fill their ranks to a meaningful level. Adding a ton of extra cubes to account for the potential of needing them meant adding cost for parts that weren't going to be needed most of the time, and it added weight which increases shipping costs. At one point there were 30-some cubes in the game just for the Goblins alone, and even those could potentially run short in certain situations. If you treated them as effectively unlimited, you would run into situations where players were forced to find extra tokens or markers of their own to track the excess.

Making it a numerical track requires one cube, and allows the population tracking discs to be set up with an exact count that won't run out.
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