Recommend
2 
 Thumb up
 Hide
22 Posts

Diplomacy» Forums » Rules

Subject: Two people splitting a victory rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
McDonalds Iced Coffee
msg tools
If 7 person are playing diplomacy, can two people declare a victory as soon as they both reach nine?

The rules are clear on this matter in the rulebook. On the first page from https://www.wizards.com/avalonhill/rules/diplomacy.pdf
As soon as one of the great powers controls 18 supply centres, it is considered to have gained control of Europe. The player representing that Great Power is the winner. However, players can end the game by agreement before a winner if determined. In this case, all players who still have pieces on the board share equally in a draw.

I'm being told that often times people play that if two players have nine and agree on a split, then they can call it, and the two people share the victory. I was told that essentially this is the same thing because if they don't attack each other they have 18.

Does anybody else here play by this rule, or have ever heard of it?
I want to make it clear that this is not a tournament and it's just 7 seven players having fun.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Kevin Youells
United States
Camp Hill
Pennsylvania
flag msg tools
badge
I paid 100 geek gold, and all I got was this lousy overtext
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Re: Two person splitting a victory
This is very much not the rule. Those are two players sharing 18, not one. Otherwise, I could go to fifteen SCs and declare a two-way with someone who has three centers, even if a third player controlled the remaining seventeen.

8 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Chris Schumann
United States
Saint Paul
Minnesota
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Indeed, not the rule.

However, if everyone wants to stop, then it's perfectly fine.
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
McDonalds Iced Coffee
msg tools
I've asked around and people involved in the game are being lead to believe that it's normal for the game to be over as soon as two players reach 18 centres between two people.

Is there any tournament that plays this way?

I agree that there are rules that if EVERYBODY wants to end the game, but what is happening is that these two players automatically are going to claim victory the second they reach 9 centres each.

Take a look at the game:
http://imgur.com/a/KJycS

Is anybody here convinced that Italy or Austria is trying to get 18 centres?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
True Blue Jon
United States
Vancouver
Washington
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
No tournament plays that way.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Kevin Youells
United States
Camp Hill
Pennsylvania
flag msg tools
badge
I paid 100 geek gold, and all I got was this lousy overtext
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
velosoo wrote:
I've asked around and people involved in the game are being lead to believe that it's normal for the game to be over as soon as two players reach 18 centres between two people.

Is there any tournament that plays this way?

I agree that there are rules that if EVERYBODY wants to end the game, but what is happening is that these two players automatically are going to claim victory the second they reach 9 centres each.

Take a look at the game:
http://imgur.com/a/KJycS

Is anybody here convinced that Italy or Austria is trying to get 18 centres?


If I were Austria in this situation, I'd make nice with Russia and stab Italy. But I'm a big jerk.

What they are stating is not normal at all, and not part of the game. Since they are being so public about it, this should become a 5 on 2 situation, and they won't need to worry about getting to 9.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Grand Prince Poutine Lord High Thrifter
Canada
Metro Vancouver
flag msg tools
badge
Please support the International Diplomacy Repository -- where your donations of Diplomacy games are always happily accepted!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
No, definitely no tournament plays that way. I've, frankly, never heard of such a thing and would certainly oppose any attempt to institute it a game I was playing.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mayor Jim
United States
Fort Wright
Kentucky
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Short of a house rule...that is not allowed. I've played games where each player had 14-15 centers and then we called it a draw.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
McDonalds Iced Coffee
msg tools
Here is one of the other player's response when I asked him to clarify this two person rule:

Oftentimes we play that if two players have nine and agree on a split they can call it. Essentially this is the same thing because if they don't attack each other they have 18. However, I would encourage everybody to play for a total victory.

I imagine you can easily guess which country he is in within two guesses.

Am I being a poor sport by believing this is not the proper way to play this game?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Max DuBoff
United States
New Brunswick
New Jersey
flag msg tools
"My name is Ozymandias, king of kings: / Look on my works, ye Mighty, and despair!"
badge
Habeo in animo vivere in perpetuum aut mori dum conor.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
There aren't shared victories in Diplomacy, but there's a common misconception that there are. You wouldn't be a poor sport at all by telling that person they're wrong.
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Bishop of East Anglia
New Zealand
Lower Hutt, WELLINGTON
flag msg tools
I'm, I'm afraid there's been a mistake. The man who has been speaking to you is an impostor. He is not in fact the Bishop of East Anglia, but a man wanted by the police. I am the Bishop of East Anglia and anyone who doesn't believe me can look me up
badge
Think of me as the Bishop of East Anglia
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
velosoo wrote:
I've asked around and people involved in the game are being lead to believe that it's normal for the game to be over as soon as two players reach 18 centres between two people.

Is there any tournament that plays this way?

I agree that there are rules that if EVERYBODY wants to end the game, but what is happening is that these two players automatically are going to claim victory the second they reach 9 centres each.



No no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no.
7 
 Thumb up
1.01
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jeremiah Lee
United States
Milan
MI
flag msg tools
designer
publisher
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
The fact that none of us here have said we've even heard of people playing with this house rule shows that there is little (very little) of this house rule actually being used in the world. I've been playing Diplomacy for 20 years, in tournaments both in person and online, in friendly games in person and online, and I've never even heard someone propose this. And! I'm actually relatively new to the hobby compared to many people here on BGG.

So.

No no no no no no no no no no no (and so on).

Let's look at an example where this is a bunch of wacky-nonsense:

I'm England. I own 15 centers.

Chris and Alan (A/T) each own 9 centers. Steve (F) is still hanging around at 1.

Chris and Alan have not won. I have not won. Steve has not won (clearly), but he still could. I've seen it happen online. Maybe we'll agree on a (nearly worthless) four way draw, or maybe kill off Steve and agree to a (nearly worthless) three way draw. No wins around, yet, though.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Kevin Youells
United States
Camp Hill
Pennsylvania
flag msg tools
badge
I paid 100 geek gold, and all I got was this lousy overtext
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
SamNzed wrote:
velosoo wrote:
I've asked around and people involved in the game are being lead to believe that it's normal for the game to be over as soon as two players reach 18 centres between two people.

Is there any tournament that plays this way?

I agree that there are rules that if EVERYBODY wants to end the game, but what is happening is that these two players automatically are going to claim victory the second they reach 9 centres each.



No no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no.



Are you sure?
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Kevin Youells
United States
Camp Hill
Pennsylvania
flag msg tools
badge
I paid 100 geek gold, and all I got was this lousy overtext
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Kevin Youells wrote:
velosoo wrote:
I've asked around and people involved in the game are being lead to believe that it's normal for the game to be over as soon as two players reach 18 centres between two people.

Is there any tournament that plays this way?

I agree that there are rules that if EVERYBODY wants to end the game, but what is happening is that these two players automatically are going to claim victory the second they reach 9 centres each.

Take a look at the game:
http://imgur.com/a/KJycS

Is anybody here convinced that Italy or Austria is trying to get 18 centres?


If I were Austria in this situation, I'd make nice with Russia and stab Italy. But I'm a big jerk.

What they are stating is not normal at all, and not part of the game. Since they are being so public about it, this should become a 5 on 2 situation, and they won't need to worry about getting to 9.


Hey Max, are you thumbing the 'stab Italy' part, or the 'Kevin's a big jerk' part?

2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Linus Glenhaber
United States
Massachusetts
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
You can play that if everyone wants to end the game say the people in the lead win, but it isn't in the rules
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Seth Owen
United States
Norwich
Connecticut
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
linusglenhaber wrote:
You can play that if everyone wants to end the game say the people in the lead win, but it isn't in the rules


As a matter of fact, the game designer specifically included the rule that everybody on the board shared in the 'win' because he didn't want to encourage that outcome. In his opinion the only real victory was a single power getting to 18. By having every power on the board share in a victory, even if just 1 center, he was encouraging the players to eliminate those small players -- which would tend to be to the advantage of one or the other and create incentives for backstabbing.

The existence of stalemate lines means that there are board situations that will force an end without a single power having 18, but this again encourages diplomacy and backstabbing. If you are a minor power that survives you should be rewarded with a share of the victory.

None of this has any bearing on the OP's point, though. That is not supported by the rules.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Randall Bart
United States
Winnetka
California
flag msg tools
designer
Baseball been bery bery good to me
badge
This is a picture of a published game designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
The players with the other 16 supply centers have a vote, and it needs to be unanimous. House rules to shorten the game are common.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Max DuBoff
United States
New Brunswick
New Jersey
flag msg tools
"My name is Ozymandias, king of kings: / Look on my works, ye Mighty, and despair!"
badge
Habeo in animo vivere in perpetuum aut mori dum conor.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Kevin Youells wrote:
Kevin Youells wrote:
velosoo wrote:
I've asked around and people involved in the game are being lead to believe that it's normal for the game to be over as soon as two players reach 18 centres between two people.

Is there any tournament that plays this way?

I agree that there are rules that if EVERYBODY wants to end the game, but what is happening is that these two players automatically are going to claim victory the second they reach 9 centres each.

Take a look at the game:
http://imgur.com/a/KJycS

Is anybody here convinced that Italy or Austria is trying to get 18 centres?


If I were Austria in this situation, I'd make nice with Russia and stab Italy. But I'm a big jerk.

What they are stating is not normal at all, and not part of the game. Since they are being so public about it, this should become a 5 on 2 situation, and they won't need to worry about getting to 9.


Hey Max, are you thumbing the 'stab Italy' part, or the 'Kevin's a big jerk' part?



The 5-on-2 part and the larger idea that people need to read the table and be willing to form big coalitions.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
M. B. Downey
United States
Suitland
Maryland
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
This is definitely not a thing.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Randall Bart
United States
Winnetka
California
flag msg tools
designer
Baseball been bery bery good to me
badge
This is a picture of a published game designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
When there is a shared victory in a Diplomacy game, remember this basic principle:

AUT CAESAR AUT NIHIL
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mayor Jim
United States
Fort Wright
Kentucky
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
And don't forget...Semper Ubi Sub Ubi...when playing face to face
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Matt Shields
United States
Portland
Oregon
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb

The closest thing to this I've ever seen at a real tournament are systems where if two or more players control 29 or 30 centers, then they can declare a draw and essentially "out vote" the players who control the remaining few centers. IMO, even this is a pretty bad idea and changes the game dynamics a lot.

Diplomacy is not a team game. You may end the game in a draw and that's fine, but fundamentally every player should be in it for themselves.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.