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Subject: I really need some help with tactics rss

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Marvin brown
United States
Texas
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And if you could refrain from insulting me, that would be peachy.

I've played three sessions as faith and gotten absolutely roflstomped each time. Every session ends with "what did we do wrong?" "Did we do something wrong?" And the sins player saying "I don't know what you could have done differently"

So, I'm looking for viable strategies for the first mission. How quickly should we be gathering gear? How spread out can the heroes get? How do you manage the constant seven dice minimum it seems like sins always have? How often do you need to be fighting when, frankly, killing monsters is laughably sisyphean? How focused should we be on combat vs goal accomplishment? Should we be spending more time purifying spaces?

I mean, I get it. People insist the game is balanced, and it probably is, but my experience is that the sins is overwhelmingly powerful. And all it really takes is stacks of two monsters or so in every district. I'm not even talking about a dogpile, I'm talking two or three is more than enough because the heroes are laughably weak. I've got to be missing something. Either that or the guy playing sins is a tactical genius. Either way we need some help.
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Will Martin
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Arlington
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Are you using corruption to your advantage? That is a huge problem newer players seem to have. They want to preserve their hero so they don't use corruption as much as they should.

Instead of asking how to play, I suggest discussing HOW you play and other people can give you advice on how to modify what you already do instead of just telling you how to play the game.
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Michael Sheahan
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In my three games so far the sins player has lost every time.
The best advice I can give is to stay focused on the current objective. You gain very little by killing random monsters. Sure, take them out if you need to. But don't be afraid of taking a wound to just move past them if there is something on the other side you need. The mission is all that's important.
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Bobby Warren
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Glendale
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I've played twice, once by myself and once with two other people on my side. I thought the "T" map on the Haven's Last Stand scenario was impossible. It was too difficult to advance across the board.

The second time we played on the other map and it felt a little more balance. We ended up winning just as we were about to lose. We probably would have lost if Thorley wasn't so buffed up. I still think the game is more balanced towards the sins.
 
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Burger King
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I would love to hear some tactics because the sins player totally DESTROYED in the first two games I have played. Like, not -even- close. Our second game was against Greed in a corruption mission. The sins player straight up stopped using sin cards and the Avatar flat out ate half the team in 1 round.

I seriously don't know how people are playing where the sins player has never won? Are they even playing the sins right? Some of the faith characters don't even roll enough dice to kill an abomination without upgrades. Which then immediately spawn at the end of the turn.
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Kent
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Please give more detail on actual turn play. Sounds like one or both sides are getting one or more rules wrong and possibly playing too conservatively as FAITH. Without more detail, no one can help. There are some other threads discussing tactics in detail.
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CK Lai
Malaysia
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1. Don't get attached to your hero. Be prepared to sacrifice him/her to accomplish the mission. Remember : if the heroes and monsters both fulfil final objectives at the same time, the heroes win.

2. Managing corruption is VITAL. Too little and your hero is irssentially useless. Too much and you run the risk of dying prematurely without doing much damage.

3. Upgrade cards. Upgrade cards. Upgrade cards.

4. Play with the base sins from the box and not the more exotic ones from the expansions. At least until the FAITH players find their feet.

5. The 2 ranged heroes are the bomb. Especially Rocco. Use him to clear the way in the streets. But protect him as he's a bit squishy. Use other heroes to block the way so the monsters don't go after him in the rare instances that he totally whiffs a shot.

6. When Karl moves, use his wolf form. He LOOKS like a good bruiser, but he's not. He's too squishy. Don't be tempted to use him in combat UNTIL he's fulfilled his objectives and you don't have so much need for a Fixer any more.

7. Protect Dr. Leah as much as possible. Her extra turn tokens are invaluable in accomplishing the missions quickly. Use her in ranged combat, not melee.

8. Every turn, use the laser.

9. The rest is just mitigating the curve balls the Sins player throws at you.
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Marvin brown
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Texas
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Thank you. I've almost never moved past a monster to grab gear, for instance. I'll give this a try.
 
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CK Lai
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MC_DM_ClapYoHands wrote:
Thank you. I've almost never moved past a monster to grab gear, for instance. I'll give this a try.


You can use City Actions to heal. Remember You benefit from ALL City Actions. There's one layout for the first story that works better because it allows you to mitigate corruption a bit better and you have easier access to the laser. The other layout is more difficult. (Don't have the game with me so I can't tell you which layout. Look at the city actions. One layout gives you a district where you can reduce corruption by 2, IIRC).
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Brett Smith
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Stay focused on the mission step your on, and must except that your heroes will die and in the process of dying it should mainly be because you where taking corruption almost the whole game to make your heroes super bad asses, dont waste time getting a whole lot of upgrade cards cause its wasted actions.
 
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CK Lai
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smith2332 wrote:
Stay focused on the mission step your on, and must except that your heroes will die and in the process of dying it should mainly be because you where taking corruption almost the whole game to make your heroes super bad asses, dont waste time getting a whole lot of upgrade cards cause its wasted actions.

Picking up upgrade cards is a free action as it's based on City Actions.

But yes. Focus on the mission at hand. Kill monsters if it's on the way, and you can do it without losing focus on the mission (which may not involve killing monsters).

That said, this is super important info for the FAITH player:

Q: During "Haven's Last Stand" if 4 monsters aren't alive to be marked does the Sin miss out on marking some, or can they mark the next X that are summoned?

A: The Sin player can only mark Monsters that are on the board. If there are fewer than necessary, then fewer will be marked

(From the unofficial FAQ on BGG).

So if you manage to reduce the number of monsters during mission 2, the Sins player has less monsters to mark for the final mission.
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Atul Deshpande
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Wisconsin
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As a Sin player, what I can tell you is the longer the game goes, the better it gets for the sin. So, especially the first story should get over within maybe three rounds max for the heroes to win. As a sin player, my objective will be to keep one eye on lengthening the game as much as possible. As heroes, for the first game, I kept reminding the newbie heroes to keep focus on the objectives, as everyone else here has said. The longer you take making the heroes stronger, the sin becomes stronger as well.
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Mark Thompson
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thisisenfield wrote:
As a Sin player, what I can tell you is the longer the game goes, the better it gets for the sin. So, especially the first story should get over within maybe three rounds max for the heroes to win. As a sin player, my objective will be to keep one eye on lengthening the game as much as possible. As heroes, for the first game, I kept reminding the newbie heroes to keep focus on the objectives, as everyone else here has said. The longer you take making the heroes stronger, the sin becomes stronger as well.


Yes keep your focus on the objective... another thing to consider for the F.A.I.T.H. is to block those altars or reduce card draw whenever possible for the sin player. Starving him/her out of cards is like chopping a leg out of a stool. It makes it a lot harder for the sins player to stand up. With a lack of cards he is forced to just using his reactions and moving/fighting with monsters.

Remember also, A sin's "turn" is a reaction to a heroes turn. Combat can only happen between a monster and that hero. The sins player can move a monster into a space with another hero... but he can't engage a fight with that hero. A fight can only happen with the hero the sins player is reacting to.
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Aron Perez
United States
Fort Worth
Texas
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thisisenfield wrote:
As a Sin player, what I can tell you is the longer the game goes, the better it gets for the sin. So, especially the first story should get over within maybe three rounds max for the heroes to win. As a sin player, my objective will be to keep one eye on lengthening the game as much as possible. As heroes, for the first game, I kept reminding the newbie heroes to keep focus on the objectives, as everyone else here has said. The longer you take making the heroes stronger, the sin becomes stronger as well.


Yep, this right here. I played 2 games over the weekend as the sins player, once as Sloth and once as Pride.

My objective was to stall you long enough to get the more powerful Apocalypse cards out and all the other benefits that the Apocalypse track gives me.

A few nuggets of advice:

- never be afraid to take a wound to run away from a square or to bypass a square to complete an objective.

- no matter how tooled up your are Upgrade-wise, there are very few upgrades that outright defend against corruption.

- City Actions are your best friends, you can use them as soon as you step onto the tile and they're free in addition to your turn.

- Look into keeping a figure/figures standing on an altar or 2 at the end of the round. It stops the Sins player from drawing a card for each altar blocked.
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karlo arciaga
United States
California
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I agree with everything that has been said before, but ill just add a few more tactics.

keep in mind ive only played this game once, but I already have a strong sense of how this game will play out just judging from my past experience with similar 1 vs many and dungeon crawl style games.

1) truly take advantage of the player roles. for example - if you are saturated with monsters on the map, it still wont help you much to try to force a fixer to battle simple to 'control' the map. solving crises is just as important as killing monsters.

2) PUSH YOUR LUCK! corruption is so integral to this game, that it works to the FAITH team to really design kamikaze dive bomb attacks, dealing tons of damage and killing multiple monsters (if they can) before dying in flames.

2) fluidly communicate player movement and city actions - there is power in numbers! of course this may be a problem with a sin like Lust, but that +die bonus per extra hero in a space just adds so much.

3) do not turtle in a space. with enough reaction tokens the SIN player can simply just zerg a building. i would only advise turtling in the late game when you have sufficient upgrade cards
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Jason Rupp
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Marion
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It's hard to say without seeing it. Both my games have been roflstomps in the sin favor (me) but I see MANY mistakes they make. I'm playing survivors tonight. We'll see how that turns out.

The big thing is threat management. In every game I've played someone has died in turn 1. That really shouldn't happen if you plan well. In my mind... you should avoid ending your turn in a spot with an enemy. If you do this, you can expect to die.

Another thing, at least early on. Ignore the acolytes. If you don't kill them, the sin can't use his power to have one join a fight.

Another tip... don't be afraid to run from a dangerous situation. For example, if there's a room that has 2 monsters in it but you really want to use the city action (2 upgrades or something) don't be afraid to run in there, do the action and run out taking a single wound.

Stay alive, stay together and use your special abilities! I've yet to see Thorley stop a wound with his special ability in my groups.
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Kent
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Borachobean wrote:
- City Actions are your best friends, you can use them as soon as you step onto the tile and they're free in addition to your turn.


This is incorrect, according to other threads that have discussed District Spaces and the City Actions Bar that they contain. See pages 15 and 18 and 30 of the rules for reference.

The District Space containing the City Actions Bar is separate from the surrounding Street Spaces. It does not include the entire tile. The City Actions are not usable until a hero has entered the actual District Space.
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CK Lai
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icarusmustburn wrote:
Borachobean wrote:
- City Actions are your best friends, you can use them as soon as you step onto the tile and they're free in addition to your turn.


This is incorrect, according to other threads that have discussed District Spaces and the City Actions Bar that they contain. See pages 15 and 18 and 30 of the rules for reference.

The District Space containing the City Actions Bar is separate from the surrounding Street Spaces. It does not include the entire tile. The City Actions are not usable until a hero has entered the actual District Space.


Yup. I have to agree I made the same newbie mistake in my first 2 games.

So know the difference between a tile, a district, and a street space.
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Rob Drew
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Remember the Sin player only ever gets to roll dice against your guys for combat a certain number of times each turn. That number is however many reaction tokens he gets, plus every single fight you start. So definitely think twice about whether it's worth walking up to fight that abom there, or if you are okay with taking a wound to walk through it, making the Sin use one of their precious reactions against you. Orbital Strikes are very strong, that's one fight you're guaranteed to take zero corruption or damage from.

Along those same lines, the Sin cards can be very, very painful, especially in the hands of a really good Sin player. They are another limited resource. They get 5, that's it. Any others they get are because the Faith team decides other objectives are more important than sitting on that altar at the end of a turn. Many times, that is the right decision, you can't possibly get to every altar every single time, and shouldn't shoot for that as a goal. But always keep it as a thought. Just like starving the Sin of fights they can perform, you want to starve them of Sin cards too.

As for Haven's Last Stand, I'll add my anecdotal thoughts that the T shaped board is more difficult than the other.

Characters that can teleport are golden. if you can teleport a FAITH member into a space, they ignore any fire or corruption during the teleport. The little bits of damage from those can add up, and can definitely mean the difference between a win and a loss over the course of a game. So definitely make sure you're getting the most out of those teleports.

Don't let the Sin player stack monsters. It's the easiest way for them to overcome your defenses. Your 4 dice and innate defense can usually hold out against an Abomination decently well. But against 2 Abominations and an Acolyte and the Controller... well, it was nice knowing you. Even if you just teleport a monster one space, the Sin player has to decide to use a reaction to move it back into that square they know they're trying to defend from you.

Along with denying Sin resources, maximize your own. An extra turn token can definitely be worth a city action token. For the 2 tokens you start a turn with, the sin gets one for you. If you can make that 3 to 1, that's, again, a sizable shift in keeping things manageable.
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Jason Clubb
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After my first game tonight, I can say...

-use your bruisers and fixers to clear fire corridors for your shooters. In the right positions, shooters can do serious damage.

-if the sins player is starting to turtle, stop him/her ASAP.

-do not get fool hardy if the game seems easy. I was playing as pride and was getting beat on until the hero players started getting overconfident and had 3 heroes die in one round. The Avatar was summoned and they got Rose too close, resulting in them losing the game when I rolled 6 hits on her.

This game appears to be stupid simple or unbalanced, but it's not. It is unforgiving of mistakes or bad moves, IMHO.
 
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CK Lai
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MetalChef wrote:
-use your bruisers and fixers to clear fire corridors for your shooters. In the right positions, shooters can do serious damage.


Why? They don't block LoS.
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Jason Clubb
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Chinkster wrote:
MetalChef wrote:
-use your bruisers and fixers to clear fire corridors for your shooters. In the right positions, shooters can do serious damage.


Why? They don't block LoS.

I was a little unclear there. By saying clear corridors, meant getting to the position itself. Shooters tend to die fast if they have to get in loads of regular hand to hand to get in a good spot.
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Marvin brown
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Texas
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Hey all!

Thanks for all the advice. We won our first game today!

Came down to one final dice roll, my 10 dice vs the big baddies 8 or 9. Traded deathblows. But it was enough.

Big things that helped:

not being afraid to take wounds to move away from monsters to accomplish objectives.

being more aggressive about gearing up.

not being afraid to trade heroes for actual objectives.

more judicious satellite of nod use.

Thanks again, everybody.
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Marvin brown
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Nico_RJ wrote:
Remember the Sin player only ever gets to roll dice against your guys for combat a certain number of times each turn. That number is however many reaction tokens he gets, plus every single fight you start. So definitely think twice about whether it's worth walking up to fight that abom there, or if you are okay with taking a wound to walk through it, making the Sin use one of their precious reactions against you. Orbital Strikes are very strong, that's one fight you're guaranteed to take zero corruption or damage from.

...


Along with denying Sin resources, maximize your own. An extra turn token can definitely be worth a city action token. For the 2 tokens you start a turn with, the sin gets one for you. If you can make that 3 to 1, that's, again, a sizable shift in keeping things manageable.


I edited this post down, but I'd like to call it out as especially useful. If anybody else finds themselves in a situation like I was where they just can't figure out what's going wrong, take a look at this post and benchmark it against your own strats. We did a lot of these things in the game we won, but there were several things we didn't do that would have really helped.

This game really is about snowballing marginal advantage. Victory feels really really good in this one.
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Brian Augustine
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Where is the unofficial FAQ located? I couldnt find it.

I was in this situation in the last game I played. Entered stage 3 with only 2 enemies on the board (including the Avatar). We let the sin player mark two more enemies during his repopulate the board action.
 
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